Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I agree with you Paul. I hope they make some changes so it goes back to a 1/4 mile race. BP

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Jack, have you been watching Adam Shiff for too long on TV? Hale's combo went from 325 to 265 in one shot. Just for the record, that's 18.46 %. I was thinking more along the lines of 389/421 or 348/409.
Maybe instead of un- competitive combos I should have said antiquated combos?
Yeah, I've got a bunch of bad combos laying around here but I'm not complaining and I'm not looking for new intakes, cams and cylinder heads either.
As far as "Bernie Sanders Socialist Stock", it kinda looks like that right now!
The ruling hierarchy (read; big-block anything) has gotten so many new "replacement" parts that you can build a new 396,426,427,428, 440 without using ANY STOCK parts! What did all of the peons get? Other than the 302 FFFFords (an action taken by a person in power who knew nothing about what he was doing) we haven't gotten much. We ARE however expected to pick up the same amounts of performance in relation to the index as the hierarchy.
And OBTW, why should I have to show anybody 5K in receipts and wait 2 years to get 5 HP back? The way that it's been done lately is to give certain people 5K cash or buy them lunch and you get what you want.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Stock Eliminator took giant steps backward when some RACERS confused working on the car with sending e mails to an office in California....It was BENEFICIAL for them, but not for Stock Eliminator....

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Barry, the average HP Big Block combo should be 2 tenths faster now. Anybody not running a Big-Block FFFFord, Chevy or Mopar not so much.
How about as a "tweak" to the system, during the course of the season the Techs take apart the fastest car of that combo and a mid-pack car of the same combo and do some comparing and find out just who's doing what? And if the fast car's stuff doesn't look at least remotely like the mid-pack car's stuff then he's gone.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Lower Indexes some amount, 2-3 seems reasonable.
Race Class at Divisonals not at a National event, except Indy . WITH an index change , NO heads up runs during eliminations at Divisonals. This will allow slower cars to compete and be modivated to work on their cars.
To be accepted and enter a National event, you must have made multiple runs during eliminations .500 under or greater ( or some number) at a Divisonal race.
National events should be for fast cars.
With limited car counts at a National event it's now become a game of how many Divisonals must you attend and can to buy a entery from someone who withdrew.
STOCK racing should get back to being a performance class..

Steve Teeter. STK. 6380/6283

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

So Billy are you telling me unless you race a Big Block combo your not able to take advantage of roller rockers, solid lifter, all the new ring combo's. Improvement's with convertor's and trany's. Better shocks. After market carbs. Three speeds for two speeds. Maybe you should look at the list of approved after market parts by NHRA. I think you'll find a lot of approved parts for more than just Big Block's. You seem to have a problem with me. If you think I'm cheating bring your money to a track. I don't get out much but I try to make Indy. I've been to the barn several times with multiple cars and have yet not made it threw. Barry
Billy what if it's the mid pack car stuff that is wrong. I seen several slower cars not get by tec.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

. Bp

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Barry, first of all I don't "have a problem" with you. Paranoid? I do however "have a problem" with the 21ST century mindset that everyone's cheating so it's got to be legal right?
Secondly, "unless you race a Big Block combo" or certain "good" Small Block combos (340,360,350,some 327s) your roller rockers and solid lifters were given out by NHRA to help keep Big Blocks from breaking stuff. They're worth nothing (or next to nothing) in a non-HP combo.
Your 1K ring packages are a joke.
The only thing that better shocks do in a not-so-fast combo is improve the Driver, nothing there.
Aftermarket carbs? Really? Not here.
3 speeds for 2 speeds? Do you even know why that was done? It was done so that the early Drag Packs and Cobra Jets (that came with Powerglides) could run 3 speeds. It had NOTHING to do with the non-HP Chevys.
And you jump to making it about money again. "Bring my money to the track"? Why? If everyone's cheating it's legal right?
Do you even know where your burger money comes from? You should pay me a visit some time. I'm looking at it on-the hoof out my window. (that last one is just a little friendly Ba**Busting)
Now, do you want to make a SERIOUS wager? Why don't we meet each other at a neutral track and bring some tools and friends. You go to the local junkyard (in case you don't know what that is, it's where poor folks shop for Racecar parts) and get some heads, a carb and an intake for MY combo and I'll go to my buddies Corvette shop and get a set of restoration quality heads, an intake and carb for YOUR combo and we'll change some parts and see who can go faster. I would be willing to wager some of that hamburger-in-the-rough that I will.
Bring your money!

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Billy you spelled Adam's last name incorrectly. It's spelled ADAM S**T !

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Billy nothing you could say would make me paranoid I have 15 employees, I'm on my third wife and my business is in Ma. I'm not paranoid I'm nuts. Maybe I'm naïve but I don't really think that many that race in Div. One are cheating. In one of your last post you said if you run a Big Block car you should be 2 tenths quicker others not so much. Now you say if you run a Big Block car and most good small block cars. And I will ad any of the newer cars. Now we are up to about 75% of the stockers. And I get it your combo not so much. Never did I say why they changed the trany rule. But they did. And the good 3 speeds in the older cars that never came with them improved at least .05 or more. Heads and intakes that are now allowed on year combo's they never came on. Not to get into all of them but do ya think the 327 intakes on the 283 was worth anything. I get that roller rocker and solids weren't worth very much but they have to be worth something even if it's only a hundredth or two. I know you don't know my brother or myself but if you ask anyone that knows us we live by do 10 things that are worth a hundredth and you now have a tenth. Your "1k ring packages are a joke" I'm not in the ring business and unless your hanging around Trout Run you have no idea what's in my car for rings. You might be right about taking the fastest car In a combo an compare it to the average one. I also think in a lot of cases you'll have the average combo person scratching their heads wondering why their car is not as fast. I'm not sure if you know how long my brother and I have been racing Stock. We started back in the early 70's and yes Billy we chased possums around the bone yards for parts. Today not so much. We all choose the combo's we run for different reasons. But lets face it most of todays Stockers small and big blocks are going threw the lights at or about 7500 to 8000. As long as they are letting us use aftermarket parts to help our part survive I'm not putting anything in my race car that came out of a bone yard. I've never written a letter to anyone at NHRA about getting different parts or HP off a combo I run. I will stand by my statement that the majority of the cars racing Stock with the rules and the parts they have let in should be able to go at least 2 tenths quicker over the last 15 years when the AHFS was implemented. I didn't have a friend that has a Corvette shop down the road from us but our local machine shop when we stated racing stock was owned by Dale Hall and his Partner Norm. Not many may remember his Alcohol Cars but you being an elder I'm sure you do. To this day I still believe they were two of the smartest small block Chevy guys out there. Billy we are on the same side I just want to race and have fun. BP

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Take a look at Indy's Stock qualifying from the year 2006. Now look at it this last year. Yah know I have to admit I'm wrong it's not two tenths to me it looks more like at least three tenths. I don't want to change anyone's combo or add new rules would just love to see them have the AHFS keep up with the times. BP

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I have watched stock change a lot over the years, I can say after 56 year of racing in stock and ss I don't feel that any of those really made things better.The cost has more than tripled and ended the racing for many. Did we go faster ,yes , now if you don't have 25000.00 to spend on a engine you going to a bottom part of the ladder. Its time to stop changing and enforce the rules we have. I don't think NHRA gives a darn as long as money goes in their pockets. Stop changing.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Making all runs at all meets count would be a start. Wouldn't be popular with some but NHRA needs to somehow make the system work for all the racers. Basing "mine shaft conditions" on actual weather conditions rather than how many sandbaggers show up would also help.

Jim Mantle
V/SA 6632

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

There is no easy answer. No matter what NHRA does us racers will figure out a way to manipulate the system. I'm not a big fan of lowering the indexes but if that is the what they do than so be it. I was hoping they would take a look at the AHFS and bring it inline with today's performances. I just hate seeing so many cars sandbagging to protect their combo"s. I have a 1970 camaro 402/375 hp rated at 400 hp. It's a good combo and can run a second under at most tracks. At Indy I was the third or fourth fastest in the class. I hate to see my combo get hit with HP when I know the 2015 Camaro's already have two tenths on me. BP

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Jim..make a good point...!
Just for conversation and from your experience.
What DA would you consider mineshaft..?

My F/PS gets close to the K/SA index at sea level.
But most hot days are 2500 DA. Mountains are a lot higher.

Was shocked to qualify at Indy had to be better than .9xx.
The DA was something like 2700 ft.

A SS/PA Caprice went 1.84 under the index...
Think there was one Stocker close to that too..

D

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

[QUOTE=Dan Fahey;602587]Jim..make a good point...!
Just for conversation and from your experience.
What DA would you consider mineshaft..?

That's the hard part as every track is different.
I got HP at Mission this year by going 1.011 under at -76 ft. My scewup as I wasn't paying enough attention to the weather and I knew I already had another 1 under run.
It was true mineshaft conditions but apparently fell short of qualifying as such according to NHRA.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I would think any DA below the tracks actual elevation should be.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

In an effort to broaden participation in our sport I would like NHRA to bring back ownership points and/or perhaps add a team championship points series. Such a change would allow me to share my car with my sons, giving my boys a chance to drive my car without the expenses of a second car, tow rig etc. A benefit would be to facilitate a transition of my racing operation to the next generation, rather than just cashing out at the end. In all likelyhood, as a group we would end up racing more. Plus it might help keep the value of our cars up as so many first generation racers age out of class racing.

To avoid abuses, NHRA could require me and a driver or two to register at the beginning of the year as a team. Taking his concept a step further, a points system for teams in stock and super stock (combined) might be created to grow the team racing concept. A team points series might total the combined points of my team,me and my two boys, at 3 nations and five divisional races versus the combined points of other teams in stock and super stock. Of course this only works if NHRA allows us to use the combined grade points as a team owner to enter national events.

It's thinking outside the current box, but maybe that's what we need given the rising cost of racing and declining participation among younger people.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Claimers!

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Get rid of all the blinders...separate the men and women from the boys and the girls.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

And get rid of the reaction times.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

How about going to "standard" ignition boxes. And with that, make part of Tech Inspection spot checking boxes for any extra functions. NHRA Tech "swaps" your box for an NHRA box for the race.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

No real way to police that. I blind but don't have any type of blinder in the car. Its just my preference to race that way.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Another nice change would be to allow a front battery to be moved to the trunk. -Al

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

What’s the big deal about blinders?

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Like everything else if you don't have it or do it and lose that's it. Maybe some aren't as good at this as others.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

go back to stock rules no superseded parts that would be super stock

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Makes average drivers better imo. That's all.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Have seen some great drivers use them, although I’ll admit they are great regardless.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I believe they are a huge crutch and they show who really needs them and who doesn't when the sun goes down.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

What I miss most about my youth is my eyesight.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

1972

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

No rule changes, just ENFORCE the current ones....

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I would love to see 1971 engine :(:(rules all over again so the damn engine would not cost $20,000 to $35,000 and you could run it all year !!!!!!!

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

How about the same guy that got the Ford 302 2 barrels the big gift?

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

What I miss most in a good working Prostate ( For Several Good Reasons )!

I would be in favor of freezing the rules.

Hard to go back in time without changing HP factory.

Most of my racers had very little valve spring pressure and
would not fall out of a tree.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I would love to see Bo Derek or even J Lo walk through my bedroom door tonite, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.......

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Ya know, sometimes I just don't understand what the NHRA is looking for or at. At first when "the same guy" who f**ked up and gave the 302s "the big gift" gave them "the big gift", I was pissed. UNTIL I saw how many got built and raced. Shouldn't the NHRA be considering participation even after a f**k up and a "big gift"? Maybe we need some more f**k ups and "big gifts".

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Yes. How about some "calculated" changes to generate interest? Seems that so many of the changes are not well thought out and often have unintended consequences that hinder participation.

Also, there needs to be fresh thinking to be able to break out of the current "formula" of 50-year old cars to expand the category.