Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Exactly, Jim.
I wish I could take credit for this one but it was sent to me from another racer.
Not picking on anyone specific here, but this is an LS1 combo that's 40 hp less in this body style.. All those strikes ,and no HP.
This illustrates one of the problems with this system.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZKnHpHC6/IMG-20...-1438473-1.jpg

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

A case in point , especially with NHRA's pathetic purse, I always thought the point in racing was for "the win". Long after the $200 is spent, the trophy and memory will last a lifetime. Not only was it a slap in the face for all who entered not to race in the final, but whomever won the race didn't really earn it. His winner trophy and memory will always be flawed. Do most want to remember winning a final going double 0 and dead on or take a single because another racer was tired? I don't subscribe to a win is a win and love to be the true champion when I win.

Not a real wonder why the younger generation doesn't enjoy racing stock and super stock with attitudes like this. Keep your head up Mr Stickles, your day will come and you definitely have the right attitude!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Barry,
I'm not much for adding more rules in general. The AHFS has it's flaws as we both know, but it has the right intent. I would leave it alone if it were my decision to make.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I'll jump in with my opinion, of course we know about opinions lol. Maybe they should put the indexes back where they used to be before they took the 3 tenths off years ago. Second under tunes will now be 1.3 under LOL. Talking real solutions though, NO heads up runs at Divisionals… Period. Leave it for Class Eliminations and National Events. That will promote more people to run divisionals with their 4-5 tenths under cars since they won't be scared of a heads up. But also run more Class Eliminations at Divisionals for those who want to be the Fastest. Then they need to start enforcing the rules that are already in place as well. No new rules, Leave indexes alone. Maybe visit some combos that have been hit hard and that nobody runs now.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

So Gator I use my real name. Do you even race? What don't you understand about it being a gamblers race. I went to Greg before they called us for the last round and told him I was done beating on my car. Unless you wish to pay for any upkeep on my car thats my decision. I've seen people leave after a few rounds in bigger races because they had something going on at home. Again their right after wining a round.
This was a gamblers race the real race was on Sunday the next day. I think Greg understood or maybe he's still seeing his therapist about it. They don't give out trophies for a gamblers race. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

NO HEADS-UP runs for Divisionals, read the forum you're on.
Class Racer.com. This site was created for Class Racing. Even NHRA is
promoting more class racing in 2020. That is what started drag racing in the
beginning. I've lost a number of heads-up runs in my time, but I've also won
a few. Nothing like WINNING!!!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Would half a second off all Super Stock indexes mess anybody up?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Maybe I am just a self-employed businessman and have no idea what changing the indexes do. I have watched the indexes changed my racing career a few times and don't see what changed for the better any of those times. It seems like a lot of convoluted semantics to me. Fix the factoring system. Someone's feeling are always hurt so just make the best of a system that can be repaired. Another thought is make class and records worth something again, which will get the horsepower more in line.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Why doesn’t nhra just change the trigger without telling anyone? Where does it say they have to? Then when the first review comes out 70-80 combos get popped and things are more in line. Hate away 😡

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

It would mess up plenty of people. Most of the bottom half of the ladder could be seriously effected. Most all of the guys I hang with would just make the index in good weather.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Lower the Indexes, 2-3 , and no heads up at Divisonals, but then run class heads up at Divisonals. This would give both the fast guys and the slow cars modivation. No HP hits at Divisonals.........

Steve Teeter STK. 6380/6283

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

First off, if you don't want heads up runs in your eliminator, go bracket racing!!!!

For those of you with "slow" combinations ( based on index), are you aware you can request horsepower to be taken off of your combo???

As far as this rumor goes, I keep in contact with my SRAC rep regularly and receive his email updates. I have heard nothing on this subject. So it seems to me its just a rumor.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

.5 lower would put me running a 8.70 to get in that's never going happen in my ole car.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Coming from a guy that has 2 cars in division 1 that will no longer run in the top 30. Why would you want no heads-up races at the divisional series ?
This is a performance based category. lets not try to turn this into a Full bracket class. Lowering the indexes again will do nothing but hurt the class. Yes the factoring system needs work.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Lowering indexes 2-3 would definitely upset my program. My best run all year in good air was .35 under..What were the great things that happened last time they took 3/10’s off?...and yes I do work on my car,but evidently,I must have done it wrong.......Victor Penrod

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I would no longer be able to run Superstock......Both my personal cars will
barely run .5 on a GOOD track and there is not the money in budget to pick them up another .3 or .4 tenths (Would take a new $20K plus engine for
either one). .5 off index and lose 1/3 of the field which is what we do not
NEED!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I very seldom disagree with you......
This time I do.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Bryan , I too, wonder where all these rumors come from.
Off-season boredom, I would guess.
So let me ask. If any of you have FIRST HAND info from someone at NHRA or from an SRAC rep., please share it with us ,right here.
Otherwise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkntcq0jBI

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Well I heard from Bill that Tom over heard a phone call that NHRA was going to change the index.

Wells Bros
C/SA 5034

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Adam Schiff announced it on MSNBC just a few minutes ago.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I like this idea. Use the fastest time of each car at a event as the data

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Have you sent in your request for a horsepower reduction on your combo??

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Are you related to the John Irving that was qualified #15 in SS and #24 in stock at Pomona? I see the stocker went .5 under. Is the SS/KA combo the same as the #15 qualified SS/KA???

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

You guys need to move further south so you race during the winter and you won't have time to sit around constructing theories and ideas on the internet!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Regardless of index changes. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. The fastest Turkeys I know! LOL!! The best people, are racing people.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

So you want to lower the index so cars that are around 2-3 tenths under will have a harder time to qualify. That makes a lot of sense. Why not lower them 5 tenths so you can eliminate more cars. Or how about we lower the field size to 16 or 32. Raise the quota to 8 grade point or more. That should do it.

You people are going to kill sportsman racing with your own egos. But it is a performance based category. Guess I'll have to work harder on my stuff or buy a newer car. Either that or write a letter to Glendora with a special gift enclosed. And if I don't like it I can go bracket racing or get a Ford with a 302.

Racing used to be so much more fun.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA. and just like that sportsman racing disappeared.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

That's as about as obvious as it gets when it comes to a combo that's way under factored.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Are you Schiffing me? Great news, it must be true if Schiffless announced it!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Not saying mine needs hp off,even though it has been beat on for 50 yrs,there are some fast cars with my combo.I can not afford the "good" stuff and still be able to go racing,it's one or the other and I chose to go racing with my money.I just do not understand what will help things by lowering the indexes,the fast guys will still be the fast guys...Victor Penrod

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Remember Ron, it’s just a rumor !!
We shall see what happens soon enough.
You should write a letter and ask for HP off of your combo, can’t hurt to ask.
But please don’t buy a Ford, lol....
Your car is unique, just like the driver.....

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

How come you pick on the 302 FFFords? It's all I can aFFFord and Im having a blast. Entry level and dont cost an arm and a leg to build. Geez

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

For the racers that want no Heads Up Racing what's wrong with you ?? I have lost a lot of heads up races but tried hard to go faster. Its part of class racing, leave it a lone !!!!!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

What is the end game here.What are we trying to accomplish by changing the system.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Robbie, not picking on Fords or the people that operate them, it was referencing gracious gift to the 302 to make them instantly #1 Q, in a multitude of body combos. I mean come on BJ out west battered that combo several times and can still go 1 second under if she wanted to. But that's another story, this one is about a rumor that several racers would like to see come true.
Pete, I wrote to them people twice, with graphs and comparison sheets when the Buicks, and the Banana car (Cutlass) were dropped into U/SA, all they did was give the Dodges with a better carb an even weight break with me. Guess they could care less about a station wagon in U/SA and I've given up hope and any form of goodness coming from Glendora.
Bob, I've had so many defeats in Class that I consider it a one time time trial.
OK, time to come clean, I do it for the money.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Ron
The truth of the matter is that the 302 Ford went from a ridiculous 200 hp where a very good car could just run the index to factory hp. You complain about BJ's car without ever seeing it. Believe me it wasn't instantly #1 material. That car is a VERY good car with all of the tricks . A lot of time and money was spent on that combination and it's not my first rodeo. The HP is about right now. Almost any class has cars that can run 1.3 to 1.5 under. They just don't show it.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Mike, I was referencing your car as it was the fastest out of all of them. I know that you flogged it to get it where it is at, and I trust Billy's judgement on how hard you two work, but it was a real nice gift to begin with. I bet you could go .5 under to begin with. I mention you both as you hit that index several times, and still can run way under. Mind you I'm not talking about you, it is your combo that most of the racing community knew was going to be fast to begin with, that NHRA allowed.
When I first got my car, it fit real nice into U/SA also, and after years I got to go pretty fast, but never 1 second under, they kept lowering the index or the Dodges would get hit with HP and me too.
My concern is with the index getting lowered.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

There are a lot of you that need to quit drinking the kool aid, put your bong down and lay off the PBR's.

This is Class racing, if you don't want heads up get the F out. What the F are you thinking this is a performance base class.

Do the combos need to be even out YES
Changing the index only helps the fast guys and gals

To make this **** work, the Afhs

Put Indy back in the mix.

Get rid of mine shaft rule.

Quit publishing the Avg's

Change the triggers

Something needs to be done with combos with lots of cars, as posted above example the LS, look at 69 Camaro, i am sure there is more examples of these.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Sorry if I offended anybody. I foolishly assumed cars running less than .5 under were slowed down. I stupidly thought it would allow guys to pull that extra weight, etc, and just run them. I apologize.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Jon Irving is my son (Finished 3rd Stock/5th SS in Div. 7)

He runs a 71 Duster 340 in SS and a 73 Satellite 400
and they are plenty fast/expensive and great combos =
(SS)340 High comp @ 268HP
(Stock) 400 Alum. Head @ 296HP


My Cars:
80 Aspen 318/155 @ 235HP = SS/KA or SS/LA -.1 to .25 under
78 Aspen 318/150@230HP = N/SA or O/SA -.5 at Pomona (Best Run of the Year)

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I've been reading this thread daily, and have come to exactly the same point as the gentleman above. What does dropping the indexes actually do? If a guy with a 1.35 under combination has his index dropped by, say, 3 tenths, he's now got a 1.05 under combination. If he's a consistent class winner/number 1 qualifier, he'll still be at that point, because the guys who are always close to him have their "capability number" dropped by the same margin. Do people think the guys who can run 1.20/1.30/1.40 under will take out the weight, put the timing back where it should be, shift at the "real" RPM, etc., because the index is lower? They won't. They'll just continue to win class and qualify number 1, but now at 1.00 under. And I hear (but don't agree with) the argument that "It's a performance class". It hasn't been a performance class for decades. It's a "money and combination class". If you can afford the cost, you can either spend enough to make a bad combination good, or you can just buy a combination that's crazy soft, and run it, until it gets horsepower factor-neutralized. To prove my point, has anyone seen a situation where a traditionally fast guy got slow, over time? They just keep spending, or (more commonly), changing cars and/or combinations. Used to be that the sharpest, hardest-working guys were the fast ones, but those days are LONG gone. The people who cry and say the current system's unfair should remember that first, they made the conscious decision to race Stock or Super Stock; second, all they have to do go become a winner is open their wallet; and third, there are alternatives, like Super Gas, Super Comp, Top Dragster, Top Sportsman, etc., where every car is "fast enough" to win.