Re: Explain to me again, please
 

SCCA gets around the parts availability problem by having a 30 year rule. No car older than 30 years in national competition in "Street" (which is the closest class to NHRA Stock). It does provide a progression to more modified classes as cars age out.

How many Stockers out there are older than 30 years compared to newer? Would you rather have a 30 year rule or pay $2K for lifters?

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Got one 52 years old, one 36, and the ''New" one is 7.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Good luck trying to get that to fly! The funny thing is, I (me, Billy Nees) would be OK with this. It would sure get NHRA's Natl. Event fields where they (NHRA) want them to be.

Let's look at this another way, "would you rather have a 30 year rule" or a valve spring rule?

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

NHRA started the "new" Stock Eliminator in 1972 with a 20 year rule and it didn't fly.

Valve spring rule gets my vote.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

remember, well. Run rollers gets my vote.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Roller lifters have been OEM in many motors starting in the 1990s. There is probably 1/3+- of the current stockers using them now. Many if not all were originally hydraulic. It would be naive to believe cam grinders are not taking advantage of having a roller lifter for those motors. Other advantages of these combos are programmable ecu's and efi.
I don't believe rollers for everyone are another step towards SS. Having them available to all would take that advantage away from the "modern" combos.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

You would think that if pushrod to lifter angle was a major concern, the 273/318/340/360 MoPar "LA" engines would be the most effected.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Terry, if I might ask here.. What combo is your car ? OEM hydraulics or solids?

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

BBC OEM Hydraulic

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Just looked at entrees for Gators. Best I can count and tell, 31 flat tappet motors, the rest are rollers.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Let me say I don't have stocker. But from someone looking in from the outside.Stop adding band aids and put the stock back into stock racing. Since NHRA will not do its job of teching the cars / engines. Maybe you can get NHRA to let you self police yourselves and have a say in what rules you want.



Stan

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

There has always been a protest rule....

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

The basics for setting up the valve geometry is simple.

Use a pushrod length checker, the rockers you are plan to use in your engine and a solid lifter at Zero lash.

Use Dykem or a marker at apply it to the tip of the valve. Rotate the engine several times, remove the rocker arm and check the contact pattern of the rocker tip against the tip of the valve.

The contact pattern on the tip of the valve should be centered and as narrow as possible. Adjust the pushrod length checker until you achieve the optimum contact pattern, measure the length of the checker and order the appropriate pushrod length.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Where’s Bubski when you need him?

Most of our parts are offshore now and yes you c a n get a quality part offshore. Don’t like it but it is a fact.
Putting a year rule in would end S T O C K
No offense Stan but we all know where (self police) would get us. Kinda like cutting the police budgets.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

The contact pattern is rarely centered but getting it as narrow as you can is good.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

There's nothing in the rulebook that states you can't do lifter correction.

Before someone says that there's nothing in the rulebook that says you can, here are some things that are not in the rulebook that people are doing.

Using $1500 millimeter ring packs with spacers, some with lateral gas ports which are prohibited on pistons. Blending the valve job from the bottom cut of the seat to the top of the valve guide boss. Roller cam bearings. Bull-nosed cranks. Using clean PVC to pull vacuum in the crankcase. Oil shedding coatings. Trick ignition systems. Etc.

Here are a couple of things that people have been doing for a long time that are prohibited in the rule book. Porting heads and intakes and covering up. Modifying carburetors especially Holley's.

Let's not forget $6000 transmissions with aluminum everything and dozens of gear ratios. Trick rear ends with ceramic bearings, profiled ring gears and impact coatings.

Lifter correction is more in line with engine blueprinting than all of the above. I'm pretty sure people have been doing it, probably for a long time, especially on aftermarket blocks.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Just a thought then. If you don't want to wait 6 mos. and spend $2100, why not put the last hyd. cam and lifters back in, for now? At least you could race your car.
;-)

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

That's a great point.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a billet crank or tool steel lifters or do any other modification.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

You are correct. The reason why the rocker arm of choice for SBC and BBC are the Jesel approved rocker arms. For other makes, I use Harland Sharp since they have dedicated rocker arms for specific engine makes in lieu of a "one fits all" rocker arm like other companies do.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

looks like that is my best option although as I have said before "Really would like to get the Schubecks out and on a shelf because they are just a bomb waiting to go off.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

OK OK OK

You've worn me down, so go back over 20 years and see my position on the unlimited valve spring pressure rule.

With a limited lift rule the one way was to increase the flow under the curve is by producing more and more radical lift rates and cam profiles.

The unlimited valve spring rule certainly brought the "Law of unintended consequences" to the forefront of Stock Eliminated Class Racing.

I tried to point out to be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Not in Div. 7 for the last 8 or 10 years per our Div. Director!

Is that Good or Bad?

Probably has saved some Fist Fights in the Pits!

30 years ago I would never go to the track without my
Boxing Gloves hanging in the trailer!!

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

So, the 95% of us that race Stock and have motors built by todays rules should just junk our stuff because you don't want to keep up with today's Stock eliminator. So, let's all get our engine cranes out and get our motors out and set them in the rubbish. Yup that's a good idea. Think you have problems getting parts now. Why not go back and if your combo came with cast pistons you have to run cast pistons. Look I didn't ask for any of the rules they changed in the last 45 years. Wasn't a fan of a lot of them but it's what they are. No one is telling you that you can't still build your car using the rules from 45 years ago. I'd be happy if they would just stop changing the rules at all. BP

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

You mean that I don’t have to use the stock slugs but still have to run a rod and piston that weighs 3.8 pounds. How heavy are they at 6100 rpm?

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Yesterday I got a call from a guy that I have a lot of respect for. I suggested to him that after the lifters there will be a request to do away with the piston weights.......

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

You can be assured that the number is not close to 95%,built by todays rules , if it's
50 % I would be surprised , if you have enhanced head then get the cherry picker ,if not then remove the valve springs ,rockers ,and go back to the 1980's ,oh but wait the rules were enforced ,and the tech department was actually checking engines ,today
it's all about NHRA slowly headed down hill ,I drove by the new NHRA location ,blinked
and missed it !

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Larry, Larry, Larry, Ya piks yer kombo and ya pays yer dooz.
I seem to remember the wedges getting some "rotating mass" help quite a few years ago.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

I'm pretty sure that you're way off on that 95% number. Are you keeping Govt. records of the covid numbers in your spare time? ;-)
Why would you think that you would have to "junk your stuff"? This is about roller lifters in non-roller combos.
There's no way that the rules are going to get rolled back to the 80's!

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

it's all about NHRA slowly headed down hill ,I drove by the new NHRA location ,blinked
and missed it !

If NHRA leased out their old premises, because most people are now in
Indianapolis, and they only need a small space for the ones that want
to remain in a "California" lifestyle, I like that move. They are obviously
ahead financially by that move, and that is better for us. I may not agree
with anybody remaining in California, but that's another topic.

J.R.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

John, I raced back in the 70's and 80's. All I have to do is look at how fast the cars are going today compared to the good old days when Stock was actually Stock not just a class that we run. I think 95% is on the low side.
We have 170 mph Stockers and a few racers are worried about 200lb spring pressure.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Ya know, the funny thing about those 170 MPH Stockers is that with the modern valve spring and camshaft technology they're using today, they probably aren't running 200 lbs of pressure.

And about "a few racers are worried about 200 lb spring pressure", as for ME, I'm not worried about it, I'm wishing for it (or less)!

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Billy, 200lbs sprind preasure. I think you better build that time machine. Let me know when it's done I may want to go for a ride with you. Every year all I hope for is no more rule changes.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

I was racing in the 70's, a 428 Cobra Jet ,and set the B/SA record at 11.50 with a street driven Mustang , this was at a time when stock was stock ,to day I seen a 428 Cobra Jet go 10.15 ,one has to say to them self's between the enhancements that some are questionable ,and the tires that are way better now , how do they go so much faster with the same old FE , I am not worried about 200 Lb. spring pressure ,if I can get a lifter that , I could buy at a reasonable cost ,and get it in a reasonable amount of time , I ordered over six months ago and nothing not even a call !

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Barry, to be perfectly clear, I don't care about the spring pressure thing one way or the other. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. If it was to become the rule, it would eventually lower the cost to compete but you don't care about that and in A/B/SA neither do I.
What I DO care about is that there are a few people out there who want roller cams allowed in non-roller combos. Now THAT will cost YOU AND ME A LOT OF MONEY to make a couple of people happy!
Love ya Buddy!

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Billy that's how my car runs good 60'. All that stored energy in a 75 lbs crank and rods and pistons that weigh an additional 32 lbs. After 330' the car is just making noise.

I do have some knowledge of dooz and donts, if I can remember where I put it.

A good article in the PRI magazine this month

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

A spring rule would make the cost of going fast higher. Some people wouldn't care about that but we race a performance base class. More time on the spintron and more cams, lifters, springs, retainers, locks etc to test. But who cares about going fast. Lol

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Initially, but in the long run the stability that would be attained would lower the costs.

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Changed my mind. I'll take the Blower behind door number 1

Re: Explain to me again, please
 

Man do you know what racers with a limit do..........spend more money to figure out how to get by the restriction