Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

It looks like the Ram Air combo is now a natural D/S car. So C-E instead of A-C.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I would highly recommend that everyone look at their classification sheet before the first race.
After over 50 years,NHRA says that a 1970 442 W-30 was never offered in a convertible.
News to me.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

3rd gen 1989 IROC Camaro 350hp Dish combo is now a natural SS/JA car, 1990-1991 IROC 350hp Flat Top combo natural SS/KA, 1992 Z28 Flat top 350hp combo natural SS/JA (Looks like SS/IA gained some more cars)

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

So how do we as racers get a copy of the sheets NHRA used? I would like to double check the math and maybe a clerical error. We are all human and make mistakes. If a competitor believes they found an error what is in place for a procedure to resolve the point of contention? What we don’t need are lawsuits.

I wonder if the SRAC could shine some light on the issue?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Larry all of the GM data is on the GM heritage site, https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-...tion-kits.html I'm not sure about the other manufactures.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

We raised our son and our car almost at the same time but together. We are very proud of what our son has become and how much progress the car has made. Both are family. Chris arrived in 1977 and in 1980 for $600 we purchased the Cuda.

NHRA we built the car to your rules and specs for the last 42 years. It took us over a year to run the 1/8 index. When we started to get close to the 1/4 mile index and just knew it would be an index runner next year, I rented a car that was in the Guide and raced at a points meet to get a grade point.

Hell what’s the point

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

You would think after a year of research on the shipping weights, they would have figured out how a Non-Ram Air Hood is somehow 282 lbs heavier than the Ram-Air version.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Herbie what a great site for information. Thanks. What I was surprised about that there we not any shipping weights for the L78, L 65, L 34, L79, L72, or ZL1. Stick or auto and with or without aluminum heads in the AMA sheets

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I’ve reached out to my SRAC representative, suggest others do likewise. Looks like Michael Beard and all the other graphics providers are going to have a busy spring…I could understand the exodus from Factory Stock by several Mustangs but this is total lunacy.

Bobby has posted on FB about this, hopefully he’ll be able to corral Lonnie and even get a podcast with him scheduled. Think if I was Dwight I’d throw in the towel.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Larry,
Is this what you are looking for?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Ahhhhh, the ever elusive iron head ZL1.. I have yet to find the documentation for the heads. I will however continue the search. My research has shown the HP rating is 367. 😮

Have you found the documentation for your bonnet?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

But the 1988 dish engine is still a natural SS/KA, according to the guide.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Bill

I did find the letter in my files that was approved years ago.

I was not trying to be mean I was just looking to double check the information of the cars that I compete with for a Class win. Win loose or draw we all want to know that everyone is following the same set of rules. Do you have any AMA Specifications that show the shipping weight of those combinations not listed for a 69 Camaro? I just want to double check, we all make mistakes.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

That would be correct.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

The Great NHRA Audit of 2022.
Wow! History being made here.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Maybe NHRA can go ahead and REMOVE all the combos that were never produced from the guide.

Maybe that will be the next Audit???

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I guess if you care. It would be nice to know how these changes were calculated. It seems to me mistakes are on racers to find now. You start questioning weights/factors like this one.

1971 Dodge Challenger 340/275.
Challenger r/t Sedan 10.82
Challenger convertible 9.91

Paul

Also knock the dust off the 1971 Cuda grill and tail lights so you can run A/SA

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Bad deal for a lot of people, how about the '83 Camaro 305/200/263? It no longer exists! Guys thought they were almost ready for the season, now they get to spend a load of money adding ground effects and weight just to keep racing the same class. Or spend a load of money adding ground effects, keep the weight the same, and jump up a class! Should be fun for anyone racing at SGMP or Belle Rose.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I have raced my 1969 428CJ Mustang since 1971 and the shipping weight was 3272. I looked today and it's 3500. The last time I raced it was 3165 with me in it and I had to add a little weight to make it into A/SA. So I quess this is another reason why I won't be racing NHRA anymore.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Would it surprise anyone here that in their "spare time" members like Dwight, Billy and Mark are doing the homework to bring to light all of the mistakes, typos or otherwise in the guide. I'm sure there are more than a few.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Wont help him without changing engine parts

NHRA surley must like seeing us go away,we are just to stupid to ”get it” and keep coming back for more and more of this xxxx

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I believe something similar happened in the old Farmer days...
Heard many stories of racers arriving to the track and being put in a different class by Farmer.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

[QUOTE=GTS340;657056]I guess if you care. It would be nice to know how these changes were calculated. It seems to me mistakes are on racers to find now. You start questioning weights/factors like this one.

1971 Dodge Challenger 340/275.
Challenger r/t Sedan 10.82
Challenger convertible 9.91

Paul

Also there is now a 1971 TA that is a natural G car *
Manual 290hp 11.03

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

They should just get rid of the shipping weights like they did for GT, if you can get to the weight then so be it.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Can someone shed a little more light on the '83 Camaro 263HP combos?

Thanks

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Not me, Frank
I don't care what they do now.
I do hate to see anyone get hurt by this latest play..or is it a ploy, to get rid of some more of those pesky S/SS cars?

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Well my 62 year old car has lost 32# 😏>> and therefore is no longer allowed to compete in the class it has held the record in 27 of the last 40 years 😡😡 guys after the 302 ffffird dicking and now this it’s gonna be hard to keep supporting this technical agenda

Captain
QSA

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

1971 Hemi Cuda is 159 lbs lighter than a '70!! I guess the 4 headlights and gills took mucho weight off!!

The good news is my '70 SS/DA Cuda can now run in SS/FA! 4035 pounds!!

Who's writing this Sh!t!! Did they double check their math?? Maybe its April 1st??!!!

LMAO!!

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Mark,
You have a Private Message.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Nope, I'm good. All of my odd-ball, one off, POS stuff is OK.
I got kicked in the teeth a couple of months ago when they (NHRA) decided to make the Cavalier a 1 class car.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Sure wish we would have waited to enter no- problem. Now we're entered with a combo that no longer exists 1983 Camaro 305 200/263. Getting harder and harder to keep this up.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

I formally requested NHRA to look into the 1993-2002 Firebird Shipping Weight last winter. This shipping weight fiasco was created from the "body in white" program Pontiac had in the 90's and also while they were a major sponsor of NHRA.

I first asked for the 1998 Firebird to be reviewed, provided all MVMA Federal documentation, contact names and all sources to NHRA. I informed NHRA that once the '98 was reviewed, I would then be seeking reviews of all the 1993-2002 Firebird Shipping Weights.

NOTE: The reviewing of the entire MVMA shipping weights for the stock classification guide across all manufacturers was the sole decision of NHRA. NOT MINE

For decades everyone has known, mentioned and complained about the obviously doctored/distorted/favorable Shipping Weights in the guide, as they pertain to the 1993-2002 Firebirds. Between those years, the Firebirds are anywhere from 150-300#'s lighter than an identical Chevrolet Camaro, depending on the model, thus allowing them to run classes their "sister" car could not!

When NHRA and I began our correspondence, I believe there was skepticism from some people that the Stock Classification Guide could be this "off"; however once I began sending them the MVMA Documents, they became more receptive and understanding of my frustration with the guide.

In NHRA's defense, a majority of MVMA "sheets" over all the years were given to them by the performance departments from most manufacturers and obviously those manufacturers probably wanted their cars in favorable classes and or in the "faster" classes, therefore the discrepancy in many shipping weights. This information also wasn't available via the internet back then and was not disclosed publicly, due to the Information Act until lately. You have to remember that technology, computing and the transferring of information has come leaps and bounds over the last two decades.

I was also informed that NHRA was going to first roll out a statement mid January this year, probably on NHRA Racer.com, and it would detail that the shipping weights were being reviewed and updated for the entire guide, where documentation was available to do so. The new weights would only take affect January 1, 2023 and that once posted that all competitors would have a protest period of sorts(90-120days) to seek more clarification, explanations and/or contest the changes via discovery of new information, they themselves could provide to NHRA...Obviously as we all now know, that is not at all how it unraveled!!!

I do not apologize for requesting NHRA to look into my request. If you were affected, perhaps you should do some research and ensure that NHRA has made the right calculations...as Mr. Hill mentioned, people make mistakes. If you received a favorable shipping weight, I would also suggest making sure it is legit, seeing as your new and/or ex class competitors will want to make sure yours is correct as well.


NOW, HERE IS MY HUGE F@#KING PROBLEM!!!


Of all the cars that the shipping weights were changed on, and all the competitors which were affected...can you guess which one(s) were NOT???

The ONLY Shipping Weight untouched in this whole f#$king fiasco was the ONE car I asked to review in the 1st place!!! The 1998 Pontiac Firebird LT1 c/w Ram Air Hood(3050#/3011# SW). Also the 1995-1997 Firebird FireHawk LT1 c/w Ram Air Hood.


When I asked NHRA why they would not touch this car that;

A. Never Existed(1998 LT1)

B. Manufacturer No Longer Exists

C. A hood is making an almost 300# difference in SW

They responded that its a "paper" car, that their has been a 20+ year precedence for its shipping weight and they would not want a lawsuit to form over implementing a new and more realistic shipping weight on it!!! So what about the precedence for the 30+, 40+ and 50+ year old combos???

But then why did the 1995-1997 Firebird Firehawk remain 3050#'s...I have those MVMA Documents Directly from the Pontiac/GM Archives and that car weighs North of 3250#'s for all 3 years in question?!?!

I also gave NHRA the MVMA documents as it pertains to the LT1 vs LS1 engine weight. The LT1 weighs 88#'s MORE THAN the LS1(steel block LT1 vs aluminum block LS1 +++). Therefore it would only make sense for the LT1 ALLOWED ENGINE Combination in a 1998 Firebirds to run 88#'s heavier shipping weights than the LS1's, NO???!!!


So, NHRA changes the entire Stock Classification Guide but leaves out the car requested for review...sounds about right!!!

So, if you are a 1993 to 2002 F body competitor, and you are OK with one make, model, platform car getting a 300# +/- advantage on you, then I guess I will have to be OK with it...IF you are OK with adding 300-400#'s to your ride while fully well knowing that there are documents and simple mathematics out their to make the Firebirds, detailed above, not have to do it as well, because of some unknown bias and/or legal threat, than I guess I will have to be OK with it too.

Don't bother or waste your $$$ to threaten to sue NHRA over all of this. All they will do is get rid of all shipping weights in STK & SS, like they have in GT/Modified and then its case closed.

...or maybe that is what NHRA hope comes of all of this??? One less thing to do!



SIDE NOTE: The 2015 Camaro 376ci(which runs A, B and C/SA)MVMA Shipping Weights is 3946#'s NOT 3320#'s!!!

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Any bets this all goes away.

Paul

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Not sure if this story is 100% true, but I was told that in 1998, GM racing had not fully developed the ls1 as part of their program. Pontiac racing opted to stick with the lt1 for the 1998 model year for their race cars. They never made any body in white “race only” Camaros, so they, along with all of the street trim cars, came with ls1 engines.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

This should have never even started in the first place.Just keep it up and there won’t be any Stock/ SuperStock.

Randy

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

So Kevin, you didn't accomplish what you wanted with the Firebirds,
so you you took one more shot at the 2015 Camaro on the way out??
What are you doing for an encore?

J.R.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

J.R., I simply used the 2015 as an example of the "entire" guide NOT being properly revised...the 2015 376ci Camaro is a factory street version car, not a "paper" car(COPO, Dragpak, CJ), yet it still was not corrected by NHRA.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

There are other examples of the same formula, which was started by
Dodge, and approved by NHRA, and I appreciate trying to gets things
straightened out, but these weights have been around for 30, 40, 50
years or more. Now we have NHRA upset that we're upset, some
combo's completely removed, and for what? I will work hard when I
can advance myself, not when I only break even, and all my peers
get hurt.

J.R.

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

What he said!!!^

Re: Access to AMA Shipping Weights?
 

Has anyone seen anything posted or in writing.

Billy, NHRA did find an odd combo for you to bring to the front: 1971 T/A Dodge Challenger. I don’t know what is the worst make believe, the 71 T/A car or the .527/.527 fffffFFF. Ford camshaft