Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

I still run the old Isky cams that I got from them in the
80s and 90s and actual Hydraulic Schubecks from 20 =
years ago. Some same old valve springs 165 seat and some
beehives on a couple cars. Never a problem I still can run 1+
under (Some of our cars even well more) when I want it too.
Engines in a couple cars are 8 plus years of regular racing. Plus
with just only one valve job.

I am sure I am a tenth or two behind the curve
of the top dogs. However, I am not spending a lot of money to race
and I still win more heads up than I lose. NO valve train issues.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

If the EPA is the problem than making the parts outside the USA would fix it.


How many vehicles today run OHC on bucket setups? Which is nothing more then the cam against a flat tappet



Stan

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Billy,

The issue is that there is only one solid/hydraulic lifter manufacturer left in the USA. The only other manufacturer left in the USA, makes only hydraulic roller lifters. New engines are either hydraulic rollers or OHC. The business model for earlier engines that run a hydraulic or solid tappet style is no longer a market the bean counters want to support with USA made products.

Moreover, there is both an issue with cam core quality and lifter quality, especially when they are made overseas. Then add the EPA imposed restrictions on lubricating engine oils, it creates more issues.

As regards to camshaft design, running a roller lifter/camshaft does not always allow a performance increase since the roller wheel diameter places a limit on how aggressive the lobe can be. One example would be the Olds 307 engine, which was available with both a hydraulic tappet and roller lifter. In Stock Eliminator trim, the hydraulic tappet engine, even with solid tappet lifters, is faster than the roller engine.

Since you been around as long as I have, you may remember in the early days, there were "Mushroom" style solid lifters available to run aggressive lobe profiles because it provides a larger contact area.

If there were to be a rule change to allow the use of hydraulic or solid roller lifters, then they should limit the roller wheel size to OEM which is 0.700". This is the roller wheel size for all OEM applications.

Allowing a larger roller wheel diameter has the same effect as using a larger size tappet style lifter. With roller lifters, the diameter does not make any difference, however, the roller wheel diameter does.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Poor example as the 307 roller motor uses a totally different cylinder head design. I can however see the issue of using a "stock" roller lifter. Very heavy.

I'll stand by what I've said, REAL RACERS will FIND the parts that they need.
And if they can't find the parts then maybe it's time for them to start building newer combos.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

I started to use Gibbs break- in oil once... warehouse gave me a case to try..I was assembling my own engine,grabbed a quart....oiled up mains and installed crank(had already checked bearing clearance) crank wouldn't turn... pulled it back out... the oil did'nt have any slickness at all... cleaned off bearings and crank... lubed it up with Brad-penn or lucas break-in oil... set crank back in and torqued down... spun just like it should... I dumped that quart I opened and the other eleven in the used oil barrel...
looking back,I should have sent back to be checked...

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

I'd like to hear more from Glenn Briglio on this subject.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Totally different situation. The OHC engines with buckets have no rocker arms, lifters or pushrods, so the valve springs are generally much less tension, since the weight of the valve train is so much lighter. Even more so with a 4 valve head, since the valves are considerably smaller, as are the spring diameters and retainers. Also, the buckets do not need to rotate like a flat tappet cam, and the cam lobes are not ground on a taper, to promote rotation.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Let leave 4v DOHC out of this and just look at 2v Single OHC. While there is no rocker arm or pushrod the bucket replaces the lifter and is traveling at valve velocity / acceleration while the lifter would be traveling slower.


Stan

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

But the oil can "puddle" on the top flat area of the "lifter", how long do you think it could last upside down?

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Finally, just received my new coated PPPC lifters.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Just curious Mike ,asking for a friend, how much did the get for coated lifters. DLC?

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

I purchased the dlc coated lifters through a builder and they originally ship the wrong diameter. I returned them in the middle of COVID and it took 17 months to get replacements. (Original price was $1500)

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

Are you running a steel cam core or cast iron? If iron, it needs to be nitrided. If stee,l make sure you request the cam manufacturer to micro polish the cam lobes. Also you must run DLC coated tool steel lifters (the old Shubecks will work in a pinch). I work for a distributor that sells Driven Break In oil and we go through several pallets every couple weeks without any problems. On the contrary I have heard negative things about the new Penn Grade break in oil. It's not the same formula as the original Brad Penn. I have a couple of customers that have Rockwell testers. It seems that the "good" traditional flat tappet non tool steel lifters will have a hardness rating of about 60c. Lifters also need to be checked for crown. I received a tray of lifters from Sealed Power that were Chinese. They had sufficient hardness but no crown to speak of. Because of that they wouldn't rotate enough to prevent the lifter from dishing and ruining the cam lobe.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

In the early-mid 1980's I worked for the Los Angeles County Mechanical Department, and the cars the Sheriff's department had were '77-78 Novas, 79-83 Chevy Malibus, and they had Chevy trucks and vans.Other County departments had various Chevy and Dodge trucks as well. Around 1981-82,we had an absolute epidemic of flat camshafts in all those various engines, predominantly the 305 Chevys,not too much with the Dodges. We tried various things, but it still was a very common experience. We were searching for an answer, tried various brands of lifters and oils, but the issue continued almost unabated. Along about the early 90's the steel roller cam with hydraulic roller lifters came out, and the problem vanished. At the time, that was when the zinc additive disappeared from the various brands of oils and that was when all this started. Now, the issues we are being confronted with probably more than anything else are supply problems. It's maddening to be told that the goods you ordered for a thousand or more dollars are back ordered because the vendor doesn't want to lose the sale so he takes your money and tosses your order at the bottom of the pile.Not a good way to ensure repeat business, but I guess the modern business culture doesn't care about that.

Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 

I used to work on a Pro Stock team using Jenkins power. He told me that his main criteria for oil was a high zinc level.