Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

My complaint with running Juniors at Divisionals is the same as running Summit ET/local bracket cars and other eliminators such as WW Williams .90 eliminators, they take runs away from traditions classes. This stretches the event out an extra day, reduces qualifying runs and forces the eliminator to start on Saturday. Less runs for increased costs, not to mention getting pushed out to less desirable pit areas.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I must admit that there was a time that I thought the Jr's were a collosal waste of time at the division races but as some of you know my oldest daughter started this year. I avoided it for a couple years hoping she would just wait until it was time for her to get in a big car so I didn't have to deal with it mainly. This first year has really opened my eyes as to the value this will bring to keeping our sport healthy for the future and it is more revenue for the tracks. I was stunned at the amount of kids that were first generation racers and the amount of people that they bring to the track to watch these kids race is a lot more than come with us. I was equally impressed with some of the kids that came from non racing families knowledge of some of our classes.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Most class racers feel the same. The only ones that don't is those that had or have a child or grandchildren competing in juniors.

I saw just the opposite with my son racing in the JDRL for 9 years and after being out for 9 years, only 6 including my son of at least 25 weekly junior racers from our home track still race

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Here in Division 2 we had 8 or 10 kids through the 3 classes who were completely new to the sport that had just gotten introduced to it because they had a friend that was doing it.
In one of your earlier post you talked about how kids don't care about dreaming of the day they get their driver's license, interestingly enough I read the other day that only about 15 percent of teenagers get their license now as soon as they're eligible I was floored by that stat. I knew it was nothing like it was when we were kids but 15 percent WTH!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Our country and culture no mind love of cars and driving in general has changed drastically over the last 25 years no mind when I was in high school from 75-79. My son tried many times to get his little league and grammer school football teammates and later high school teammates to come to the track and not one ever did. I myself spoke to the grammar school principle about bringing his junior to school for a Q&A and that fell on deaf ears. We had a great time in juniors with much success but unless you're the kid of a bracket or class racer, they have no interest

https://i.imgur.com/7htkC9ml.jpg

we sold the car literally right after this win which was the biggest payday ever at the time for juniors and were done. It's still raced today and has turned on many wins lights for at least 3 drivers after my son.

we last saw the car in April of 2020 at Dragway42

https://i.imgur.com/oqUVawfl.jpg

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

1320,

Did your Son race at Divisionals? Or just your local track?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

No, only divisional was the D1 Junior Finals

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

you're delusional but hey, go sell it to every track owner and see how far that gets you.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

If you want to get more spectators you have to give them something exciting and worth watching especially if you are charging them $25 + a head to get in the gate. I can tell you that 3 classes of JR Dragster, SC and TD along with SG and SST are not going to do that. Dragsters are terminally boring to watch unless you understand the nuances of that type of racing. If I were NHRA I would drop JR Dragster from the divisionals and I would lower the indexes on the .90 cars one full second across the board so its not so evident when the stop comes on. Look more like a real drag race. Most of the cars now can run those numbers without the stop. Stock , super stock, Comp and TS are pretty good action classes to watch.
You have to have a good announcer that can explain to the spectator what is happening on the track for the different classes so they can understand what is happening. not just announce the ET and speed of the runs.
Lastly you need some good food at the concession stand at a reasonable price and nice clean bathrooms with toilets that flush with toilet paper and doors that close and latch for the women..

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

That won't put asses in the stands but I agree the indexes should be dropped a full second but the NHRA ain't going to do because of the vocal minority that feels it would push them out or make them less competitive.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I have been fortunate to attend the last few of Bill Bader Jr’s “State of the Union” meetings with the racers which are held at the award banquets each year. I wish everyone was able to experience them. Bill puts a lot of preparation into the list on his agenda and welcomes input from everyone in attendance. The topics range from schedules, on track procedures, car counts and payouts just to name a few. Bill can tell you the average time between pairs for events run at his facility. These are discussed at the meeting along with ideas to minimize potential downtime. Bill’s personal cell phone number is announced at every event for feedback. I don’t question Bill or the Norwalk staff’s desire to make the next Divisional (or any event) at their facility greater than the previous one.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Bader nailed it in his statement "an evening of entertainment." Look at all the TV racers, all run at night. Night of Fire, jet cars, fireworks, all at night.

Edgewater ran a Divisional event in August for about 25 years, the stands were full on Saturday night and completely empty on Sunday in the 90° heat. Then NHRA declared that all qualifying be finished by 6:00 PM on Saturday, so no Alky cars running at night. They also required fees for the manufacturers midway and t-shirt sales, so that died out. It was around 2002 that the track gave up the Divisional.

They now have Pro Mod shows and Nitro Chaos shows at Edgewater, and they run them on Friday and Saturday night with good spectator counts.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Please don't talk about lowering the indexes. That only hurts the little guy. Everyone knows what the problem is and they use them, but it is the way it is. If you change the I sexes, they will screw it up.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

there are no little guys racing the .90 classes, this isn't 1990 when a 700HP 454BBC in a S/C or S/G car was competitive and your car was on a open trailer. If you can afford the tow vehicle, trailer, entry fees, race fuel, tires, yada, yada, yada and time off of work you can afford to upgrade your program but all this is off topic.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

It has been said here, many times, that we're not a car culture anymore and that young people have no interest in cars, racing.
So, how does one explain The Southeast Gassers phenomenon ?

Started about a decade ago by Quain Stott with one car, there are well over a 100 cars being built or raced.

Strictly enforced rules ..1967 or earlier cars, appearance
Stick shift only, clutchless forbidden
1/8 mile only, on smaller southern tracks
Must do a wheelie
Strongly suggest car names..NO vinyl or air brush
No ETs on scoreboard
Burn outs across the line,...Back up girls allowed
Flat out racing. First to the finish line wins
Racers don't pay entries. They are the show!
Annual points fund

Spectators travel hundreds of mile to watch these races and usually pack these venues.
Many videos available on Y/T

Now, compare this to NHRA Divs, with throttle stopped BBC PG ....Never mind

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

The fans understand HEADS-UP RACING!!

The match race that Robin and I put together at the NMCA event at St Louis is a great example. By the last round, almost everyone at the track was in the stands watching.

Class Racers have the ingredients to draw crowds. But, do we have the will?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Don’t confuse what well established racers want, with what the fans want.
A sea of 69 Camaros is boring, regardless of their amount under the index. A group of diverse cars racing is more interesting and enjoyable for the fans.

And for the record, people aren’t stupid, where are all these people that “can’t understand handicap racing”??? Anyone that doesn’t understand at first can be taught very easily. To say fans only want/like heads up is not true otherwise the stands would be full for class heads up runs and empty when running eliminations, but it’s the same “class racing people” that watch.

I would say, find what brings in more racers. Reducing hp on unused combos, make records worth something (recognition and $$) tear downs before awarding records, etc.

That’s my $.02 Canadian which is what -$.00001US��

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

We already have 3 classes of heads up racing in the .90 classes. Unfortunately the indexes are too slow for the technology that we have today. That is the reason i brought up the index change to make the racing seem more like actual heads up racing. It would still have a breakout just less time on the stop. Maybe rename those classes Heads Up Comp, Gas and street. Like I said earlier you have to give the spectators something exciting. Then maybe they will come back to the next event.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

There’s no match racing out here anymore!
He!! Yeah!
We need a West Coast Indy here!
All class runoff with winners of each class running off an index until we have a winner. No dial in! Ok start shooting at me now.
I’m a huge fan of Top Sportsman and Top Dragster for obvious reasons. When you see the stands and fences lined watching , that’s the first clue!
It has to be exciting!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Is Super Comp more exciting than Super Street, because the cars are faster? No!

My Super Street car runs less than one second under the 10.90 index. It is still very apparent that this car launches and then goes on the throttle stop.

Lowering the indexes will do absolutely nothing to increase the spectator or participant appeal of these classes. Pros/Cons comparison of such a change would absolutely be upside-down.

Beyond the common folk not understanding breakout racing, all of the action is at the finish line and tracks don't usually accommodate finish line viewing.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I think you are misinterpreting my post. SC is for sure the most boring of the 3 classes. most people if you ask dont like the cars that leave the line and shut down like the .90 cars. One way to eliminate that is to outlaw the throttle stop. That is not going to happen. Another way is to lower the indexes to reduce the amount of time the cars are on the stop. Spectators come to a race to be entertained and not bored to tears. The indexes in the .90 classes have been the same since they were formed about 40 years ago. The .90 classes are the only ones that can improve drastically with the turn of a thumb wheel. I have friends that race in the .90 classes all of them are killing at least a second with the stop. This thread has mostly been about how to make our events more interesting to attract a larger spectator count. By doing that the tracks will make more money and keep the gates open and if we are real lucky maybe the purse could get raised a bit.
Those are just a couple of ideas that i have. Do you have any ideas or just leave things as they are?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

again spectators as in non racers, non crew members, non family ain't ever coming to divisionals. Lowering the indexes is a different discussion and we're killing over 2 seconds.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I understood your post just fine. If people don't like throttle stops, a reduction in the amount of time on the stop isn't going to make the difference between spectators coming or staying home. Both of my cars are on the stop for 1.5-2 seconds, which is much less than most. My cars are just as boring to watch as the others.

As to what casual spectators want to watch - if I have both of my cars out in my driveway or at a car show, the dragster gets WAY more attention from the everyday person. It's an actual race car. As racers, we know that dragsters are boring but don't assume the everyday common folk also think it.

As for how to attract spectators to a divisional - it's going to require a show. They aren't coming to watch us race, nor should they feel compelled to. It's not a spectator sport.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

exactly!!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Why are we concerned about bringing in spectators???? We pay a good amount to race. If nhra and track’s want more than what we pay then they need to step up and promote. They are laughing their asses off reading our divided arguments and personal agendas

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Where did you get that figure? If the national average is anything like I see at our local tracks I'd say way more are staying.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

and you'd be wrong

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Large crowds of spectators are where the money is, unless you have serious title sponsor money. Or serious vendor sponsor money.


Your membership dues license fees, and entry fees are a pittance compared to what they want for profit.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

if e can get the tracks to reduce the entry fees or allow for spectators attend for free. Do not allow any outside food or drink. They could make more of food sales. We could contact local car clubs and high schools. We should not sit on our touches and expect the local tracks lose money on holding divisionals.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

This conversation has been coming up fairly regularly for at least the past 40 years.

I know, even from talking to guys who are local street car, drag radial, cash days, radial tire, heads up, bracket guys, most people look at you like you're speaking a foreign language when you start talking about classes, rules, weight breaks, horsepower ratings, classifications, combinations, penalties for going too fast, or throttle stops and how .90 racing works.

They don't get it. Even the people who are far from "casual fan".

You want spectators and excitement for the masses? Heads up, big motor, drag radial, door slammers, fast street car, no prep, funny car burnouts, and/or blowers, turbos or nitrous on every car in the place. Throw in a car or two into the wall.

Or nitro.

Just how it is.

Some kind of booked in show, match race, Quick 8 or other attraction is probably the best bet to get butts in the seats.

I remember wrestling matches in a ring set up in front of the grandstands. Now that was entertainment.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Well , of course. If anyone disagrees with you they are wrong.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

what part of the TRUTH and the Facts don't you like?

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

Because without them we'll have to keep paying gooder amounts of money to race while the tracks, contingency money, track/title sponsors, midway will continue to disappear- while operation costs will continue to rise. The fact that racers don't recognize this kind of scares me.

There seems to be a real disconnect between tracks and NHRA when it comes to these divisionals. I don't think NHRA is inclined to promote the event and may be content getting their cut and operating certain aspects of the race. Their business model might be working just fine on their end. All tracks have slightly different deals with NHRA and it is up to their negotiation skills. Some may have a bad deal in place, or maybe an old deal. It is probably safe to say that the more they take in at a divisional, the more they shell over to NHRA and they may not feel it is even worth gambling on promotions/entertainment and would rather play it safe so as not to lose any money if it flops.

Anyone reading 1320's post is either laughing their asses off or is confused as all hell. Yes there are a lot of wasted keystrokes on this thread by people offering nothing aside from "nothing will ever be good and that is never was."

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

you can count on it!

"nothing will ever be good and that is never was" and specifically Divisionals will never be great again if your definition of great is spectators in the stands and a manufacturer's midway and Bobby fyi, I was with a racer yesterday that you have previously interview who has been reading this thread and he was laughing at YOU and agreed with me 100% that spectators ain't ever coming and divisionals will never be great again according to your definition.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

So do we want spectators or not? In the first paragraph you're trying to sell us on the need for spectators to offset costs. In the second, you're trying to tell us that the tracks don't want spectators because of increased cost.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

forget the spectators that aren't ever coming our concern should be if we keep losing tracks, there's less tracks willing to lose money to host divisionals and entries will continue to increase while payouts remain stuck in the 90s and contingency sponsors continue to leave the program. Take D1, the very real possibility exist that we could lose 2 tracks over the next 10 years.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I disagree with some of your post Ed
We cannot go this on race cars alone. Promoters need money back in the pocket. That offsets what we have to pay ! All one has to do is look at what you pay, the number of entries and what it costs a track to put on an event. It cannot be a loosing proposition or break even. That means they need to advertise and get sponsors. I personally don’t want to pay more to race! We aren’t racing for the money for gods sake. Everything has gone up except for the payout. Yes we had a small increase but so did your entry!

And then there’s some raceway's that charge an astronomical amount of money to host an event because they can. The California Syndrome!

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

disagree all you want but you can't prove me wrong. Go pitch all your ideas to your track owners and see where that gets you.

again, host tracks are not going to throw good money after bad in an attempt to lure spectators that don't exist for what we do.

What we do is not a spectator sport. Further, it's boring to watch and most don't understand it and worse think it's stupid watching handicap starts no mind throttle stop racing.

The general public knows drag racing to be 2 cars line up, leave at the same time and the first to the finish line wins. They're loud and fast, do long smokey burnouts, have flames coming out the pipes and sometimes have spectacular crashes That is a spectator sport, that's what they come to see and that's why the Street Outlaw/NPK races PACK the bleachers at every track they compete at while collectively selling 6 figures worth of merchandise at every event.

Re: Make Divisionals Great Again
 

I know two young men very well that had a vision for drag racing and set the standard for Big bucks racing. One has since passed ( god speed brother) So don’t tell us it cannot be done ! Doomsday posts don’t do anything for the issue. You can be Be part of the solution or part of the problem. But I already know the answer so go ahead.