Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Our car would only run fast like this. I’m not getting into any arguments with anyone. We tried it several times, it would not run fast tied down period. That’s a fact.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

AGAIN, for those that don't understand how the timing system works and we know there are many here, just ask them how autostart works :D and for those that failed basic math...

if you get to the 60 foot clocks slower and you WILL, breaking the beam with any part of the car behind the front tires no mind the back tires, you WILL run a slower ET!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Wrong!

Explain these two runs

Run 1
1.349 60 foot Small wheelie
4.053 330 foot
6.390 660 foot
104.78 660 mph



Run 2
1.458 60 foot Big wheelie rear wheel 60'
4.049 330 foot
6.388 660 foot
104.49 660 mph




REAL world proof that A BIGGER WHEELIE DOES NOT SLOW YOU DOWN!!!!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Great thread.

Of course Ed is providing his bombastic rhetoric, but that's him. He does know his stuff though.

Would it not be cool if Warren Johnson would provide his knowledge on technical subjects like these.

Also Herb McCandless has endless information to share and I wish he would.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

you're wrong and CLUELESS!

I believe NOTHING on read on the forums and half of what I see with my own eyes!

You can't defy physics nor how the timing system works!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ty but there's no denying that, the Proof is in the Performance!

I get it, some like me and my son like wheelies and others can't hook without wheelieing to which I say, your car needs work but neither are the topic of this discussion.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Lol :) I ran the car last weekend you can go to world wide tech raceway app and find exactly what I typed car number is 5664 what don't you like about the FACTS LOL LOL

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Malarkey not FACTS!

I KNOW that...

if you get to the 60 foot clocks slower and you WILL, breaking the beam with any part of the car behind the front tires no mind the back tires, you WILL run a slower ET!

That statement is indisputable and FACT!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I don't go through the traps with rear wheels just the 60' lol

Okay you win ;)

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I do, got the big checks and Wallys to prove it!:p

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

All i know is this past weekend at bracket finals at Darlington my vega was pulling the wheels about 2 to 3 feet sitting them down right at the 60? going 1.26 60? 3.71 330? and 5.77 660?. Had the bye at 3 cars and proceeded to do a 120? wheelie going 1.34 60? 3.71 330? and 5.773 on a 5.77 dial. So I personally dont see any difference in et and wheelie size. Now if you didnt daylight the wheel at launch and rolled through the beams at launch i could see it being faster because you are getting a running start at the timing system. But i think it would be minimal et gain.

Ep

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

GUMP...knows!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ed, what does the 60' beam being broken by any part of the car other than the front tire have to do with your overall E.T.? IF the car is staged in the same spot and everything else about the run remains consistent? If the car isn't "bothered" by more or less of a wheelstand then the E.T. difference between the staging beam and the finish line beam has nothing to do with the 60' beam.
A "wheelstand" is nothing more than a residual effect of traction, power and acceleration. The proper control of a "wheelstand" will create the best E.T..

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

In my sb stocker
It?s gotta wheelie or it slows down
I tighten up the shocks. Years ago it slows down like 5 hundreds
Now in aBB high powered 396 I hear tighten it up it goes faster
Watch Jim Boudreau car tight is right

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ya know Ponko, Even cars like my Novas which wouldn't wheelstand on their best day will slow down if I have the front shocks too tight. Each car and combo wants what it wants and they're all different.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy that's a great point all cars are different ,Another example of my personal car is I had my shocks way too tight my first couple of runs with my car last week and my 60's were 1.39 both passes . So there is something to your statement for sure. Every car just has to find its own sweet spot for the best ET.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

what you lose or gain in 60 foot directly effects the ET!

That said, I invite you to come to Numidia next season on a bracket day and I'll show what the change in 60 foot does to the ET. I'll launch wheels up, breaking the 60 foot with the back tires and the next pass I'll tighten the front shocks up all the way launching with the front wheels just off the track. My car doesn't need to wheelie to dead hook, it will hook in a puddle!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy,
Back in my post #68



This is just to hard for some people to grasp.



Stan

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I have a question for 1320. You might have a Superstock chassis and you may think that the car doesn?t care what Engine is under the hood. BUT what is your starting line ratio? I bet it?s not the same as a superstocker

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

it was, it's not now and that has nothing to do with this conversation which is about...

"ET with and without wheelie

SLR is internet forum malarkey like dynamic compression ratio

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

[QUOTE=

SLR is internet forum malarkey like dynamic compression ratio[/QUOTE]

Way to go Ed...
You may fool some of the racers with your malarkey some of the time, but not all of the time.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Here you have said how the height and length of a wheelie effects your car.




Exactly! So just how does no wheelie effect your car?


Stan


PS Just how far off the track do the front wheels need to be for it to be a wheelie? LOL

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Stan, you first, tell us how the height and length of a wheelie effects YOUR car.:D


Already stated in this thread:p

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Just what I thought you would say, you are comparing apples and oranges, and it does have alot to do with this conversation.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

has NOTHING to do with this discussion

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

There is a difference between what I would call a huge and a long wheelie.

We have our bracket mode which is something similar to what I witnessed in the video that you posted.

Then, we have KILL and MINESHAFT conditions which can throw a curve ball in to the mix. On our fastest runs, we often do a long wheelie that trips the 60' with the back tires. It does not slow us down. The curve ball is when we go into that monster wheelstand. This is when the car stands straight up and I get both shifts in the air. It slows the car tenths.....

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I will add that when we ran Top Stock years ago, we figured out that every bounce would kill about .01 of ET to the 1/8th.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

All things equal, a slower 60' will result in a slower ET. Key phrase "all things equal." This means same part of car is tripping the beams...same wind conditions...same tires...same air...etc.

As soon as you trip the beams with something other than what tripped it on the previous pass, that "all things equal" idea goes out the window. With what Ed is saying in his posts above, if you slow down from a 1.280 to a 1.340 in the 60' then you're inherently going to run .06 slower in the 1/4 mile. "What you lose in 60' you lose downtrack" but that is completely irrelevant if the car isn't tripping those beams with the same piece of the car every time.

One track I race at around here will pickup something in front of my tires at the 60' cone in the right lane, but picks up the tires in the left lane. Happens EVERY PASS. But, the ET comes up 7.750 in the left and 7.752 in the right. My 60' will vary by over .04 but my et varies .002 lane to lane. Something there doesn't add up with Ed's theory.

Ed, I may not always like your approach to a topic but I rarely out and out disagree with what you're saying...but on this topic you're leaving out a key component and trying to lead people down the wrong path.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Daren, that's a very good explanation.

Ed, again you're talking about YOUR car. It's not a bracket car and it's not a SS car and what YOU are doing to YOUR car works for YOU.
In a Stocker (not necessarily a SS car) with a Powerglide you can get "60' crazy". If you shift the car too high and the converter locks up OR you have too much low gear in the trans and you don't have enough wheel speed yet, it can "stagger" the car. Make it hesitate on the shift. A lot (not all) Racers with PGs try and shift the car low enough to "flash" the converter again. Especially in bad air.
In a Stocker with a PG, 60' times are irrelevant.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

I agree with much of the facts you stated as you have agreed with much of the facts I have stated BUT were you go off the rails is with your opinion that I am trying to lead people down the wrong path. I am not!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

My car IS A super stock car that since late 2008 has been bracket raced launched off both the foot brake and trans brake. Further it?s also been raced very successfully as a S/ST car, finishing #2 in the division.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

So you're going to run SS at the Dutch?

Only #2? The only year that I ran S/ST I won the division and never did it again. I went on to SS the following year where I finished #3 in the Division. SS is hard.

I'd like to apologize to the Real Racers on here if this sounds like bragging. I generally try not to do that.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy, you are attempting to brag but failing miserably. :D Now if you a "real racer" would like to compare racing accomplishments as in money, Wallys and championships won over the last 6 years, I'm game! We got one win that by itself is more $ than you've won in your entire racing career!

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Watch where you're going with this Ed. Let's say over the last 40-45 years and let's adjust winnings for inflation and I'm good. In fact, let's make it for our best 10 years just to be fair.
Just one more thing, no "We". This is you and me not you and your son (who is a very fine young Racer) and whoever is parked within 100 yards of you.
OBTW, when we start counting the Wallys, we're not talking about the Wallys that they give away at your local track. We're talking about the Wallys that you win the hard way. And we are talking about YOUR Wallys.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy, stay on topic, specifically on my challenge. My son drives, who’s one of the best in the country under 30 and I taught him everything he knows and I prepare my race winning cars that are amongst the best if not the best on the property where ever we race. We’re a great team that’s not easy to beat.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

C'mon Billy, I'll bring up some Marvel Mystery to pour down the cylinders of the "Brat" and you'll be good to go to run Super Pro at Numidia next year. Then you can do your own test of wheelie height vs. E.T. change.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy have you owned a car that could wheelie with the back tires? I like it Doug and I’lll line up with him 1st round.:D

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Ed, THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ was your challenge!
Were the last 6 years your best?
I'll compare your best 6 years to my best 6 years Wallys to Wallys, Championships to Championships and Dollar to Dollar adjusted for inflation.

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

ok and again, have you owned a car that could/did wheelie with the back tires?

Re: ET with and without wheelie.
 

Billy's already commented but I disagree with this concept as I did yesterday. Remember that "all things being equal" part.

If on one run with the same 60 but you run quicker to 330 you're going to have a better ET. How does that happen?

Hard to explain clearly but I've always thought the engine always needs to be ahead of the car. If one sixty resulted in the car dragging on a struggling engine, it's going to be slower to 330. And if during the other, the engine was happy, singing, and bringing the car along with it, it's going to be quicker. Yes, I'm talking about finish line ET being quicker.

I have seen that happen many times on more graphs than I can count.