Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

I havent read this whole thread but in repsonse to what Jeff just said, The 68 Dart/Cuda came with that car with a HEMI and a Scoop. Why wouldnt you be able to run it in SSGT. And that scoop on the AMX is a definite advantage but its there so whats the big deal.

Herb Jr

Terry your right it sounds like Heavy Elim.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Jeff,
Thanks for the info on that. What I fail to understand is, if there are NO HP changes with a fresh air system, then why not just delete the reference to it in the Class Guide? All it does is muddy the water, and it's plenty muddy already, what with the acceptance of aluminum aftermarket cylinder heads on otherwise STOCK engines, different factors for the SAME engine in different cars, the same engine with different transmissions etc.... Jeesh...

Obfuscation and confusion abounds... in an area where explicit information is critical. Amazing....

Bill

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Allowing ram air bodys with any engine sets one to thinking. When GM and Chrysler merge, the LS1 Chevy engine can be put in a 69 AMX factory racecar to run GT. Also look forward to the same engine in a 68 Barracuda/Dart hemi body. When looking at Fords, a 64 Thunderbolt with a 68 302 could run GT. Don’t forget about a LS1 in a Super Duty 62 Pontiac.

Yes sir, messing with the rules may give us some SS/GT cars that would cause even die hard class fans to quit paying to see.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

I think an Omni with a 396 Alum Head motor would be way cool!!!! And speaking of Omni, in it's day we had a cheapie Omni that had about $200 markup. By the time the factory added the things to the invoice that the public doesn't see ( 3 additional gallons of fuel, handling, 25cents to print a Manufcturers Statement of Origin, etc), dealer cost was more than window sticker. A real deal there.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

I can`t speak for GM & MoPar, but I`m not aware of any of the Fords having different factory HP ratings between Ram Air, cold air, Shaker, whatever you want to call it. I`ve owned several factory "Shaker" equipped Mustangs, 69 & 70 R code 428 , and 70 351 Cleveland 4 barrel, the factory ratings were 300 for the 351, and 335 for the 428`s, same as the non Shaker cars. Same with my 69 Fairlane Cobras, 335 with or without Ram Air. However, in the 70`s, until the early 80`s, NHRA added 5 additional HP for the 428 CJ ram air cars, over and above the considerable factor that they had already added to the 428`s. Basically almost everybody who was running a 428 CJ car at that time replaced their Shaker or Ram Air hoods with flat hoods, rather than carry the extra weight the scoops required. As for hood scoops in general, obviously not all are equal in design. The huge 68 Hemi Cudas and Dart scoops, as well as the boundary layer designed 440 6 pack Road Runner and T/A Challenger scoops would likely be superior to, say, an 68-69 Road Runner "Air Grabber", Buick GS, or Firebid-GTO style units. I remember towing a friends 70 Buick GS to Boise , on an open trailer years ago, in a rainstorm. When we got to the track, the rain and dust had left a nice bunch of trails on the hood, & by looking at these dust trails, it was obvious that the airflow went around the almost flush hood openings for the ram air setup, rather than into these openings. Many of these scoops and "cold air" setups were simply styling gimmicks, while others, most notably some from MoPar were actually designed to be functional.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

My reference was to factored horsepower, not OEM ratings.

I thought that if the engine had a factored HP rating that depended on fresh air for that rating, then it should be allowed fresh air in a GT chassis. But, since they have removed all the separate factors for fresh air engines, it's a moot point.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

See if it still is a "moot point." You race SS/GT competitively with a non-ram air engine in a non-ram air body. Some high roller puts the exact same non-ram air combo into a totally different body. The thing is his car has a hood scoop that actually works and works very good. This someone goes to a mineshaft and lets his ego outdo his brain. Automatic horsepower hit!!! Now your stuck with a horsepower hit that cannot be touched with your non-ram air body no matter what you do.

Don't look like a moot point to me!

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Good point, BBG67. I guess the obvious answer is, don't build a GT car in a chassis that can't run a hood scoop.

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

Not necessarily true on your last statement, Bill. Since the original CAR factors W/original engine are used to determine the GT car min weight, following that statement might not be an advantage. The fresh air packages can put you at the middle or bottom of a class minimum weight . Then there are others that will put you at the top of the class weight. Sure they might help overcome some problems, but is that enought to make a car that is at the bottom of the class weight run with another combo w/out FA that is at the top? I think you need to take a longer look at the situation & study the classification guide before trying to make abolising the Fresh air car factors an agenda. I Have been looking to the future in SS/GT and have found many freshair packages to be very versatile. With a hood change & HP change some cars can fit many classes. Some come in at the top, some in the middle & some at the bottom. A racer just has to figure it out. I don't think there is any overall magic in just having fresh air in GT classes. Esp the way the class is figured. My .02 after watching this thread develop.

Adger Smith
Adger Smith Performance Engines
2802 W 7 TH ST
Texarkana, TX
903 794 7223 shop
903 824 4924 cell
adgersperf@aol.com e-mail
www.adgersperf.com Web site (view only)

Re: Older Superstock GT cars with scoops
 

My guess is that an older car with "fresh air" will not be picked due to that against a newer "slicker" car..so fresh air or not probably dosen't make the difference...but added hood clearence maybe could offset the aerodynamic disadvantages some..

personally i would hate to see a "Race-Hemi" whit out a race-hemi..but thats me!