CLASS RACER FORUM - Where you qualify is very important

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Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 439637)

Iam all for class winner bump inn's. and getting rid of the class combo BS.
If you single for class and run under the index your in.

That's just one of the reasons I always liked you, CharlieBob!

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 439556)

Another example, if you have a 41-car field (one of the "magic ladders" as is being discussed here), there's a total of 4 bye runs throughout eliminations.

Utilizing Tom's ladder, it's actually more complicated than what I'd originally thought. In order to get 41 cars to 32 in round 2, you would have to pair 18 cars (sending 9 into rnd 2) and give 23 cars bye runs. (18+23=41 rnd 1 cars. 9+23=32 rnd 2 cars).

I don't see how awarding 23 bye runs is an improvement over 4. Additionally, this procedure would cost an additional $650 in round money (Based on NHRA Div. 1 payouts), as there would be 16 cars left in Rnd 3 as opposed to 11, and more cars in each successive round. Running all the singles would take more time as well, unless you ran them side-by-side. Multiply the time and money by the number of classes that would use this system.

I do enjoy the mental gymnastics of working through ideas, though.

Michael.... I'm actually half-agreeing with Brad Z.
Let's end up with 16, 32, or 64 car fields.

(but I would give everyone a chance to get in, instead of sending the low qualifiers home)

Let's look at the 41 car field you mentioned. (instead of sending 9 cars home, we have the bottom 18 run to get in the 32 car field)

You do have the bottom 18 cars running a "Get-in or Play-in round" (just like the NCAA uses for the march madness). Those 9 winners are not credited with a rd win, but they now qualified for the final 32 along with the other faster 23 cars that did not have to run. (this will also force 23 cars to chase after the top qualifying spots to avoid the "get-in round).
No one said you had to pay rd money for those that are still trying to qualify for the final 32 cars.
Issue #2 - 23 singles - no need to run them (just like class eliminations, some guys run more rounds than others- no extra advantage)

Myself, I wouldn't mind this method, and it's not very complicated.

If you think this is complicated, go stand by a qualification sheet at the races, and 50% of the racers couldn't figure out who they had to run if there was an odd number of cars if they tried. 95% couldn't tell if they were on the short side of the ladder unless they had the ladder book or Bobby Fazio's program (plug!).

ps... and honestly... I won't mind if they leave it alone... because I understand it.

Re: Where you qualify is very important

How about best losing package in the previous round gets back in the spot of the bye run? Only laddered bye run would be first round for the #1 qualifier who would deserve the bye if there were a odd number if cars. After that best losing package racers would be put in the spot where bye a bye would normally be. Wouldn't hurt car counts, not complicated, only would cost the tracks or nhra a few bucks extra for paying a loser one round later and would give a racer who just came out in the wrong end of a good race another shot. More of a earn back than a buy back......

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Zaskowski (Post 439748)

Ya know? I like that idea!

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Zaskowski (Post 439748)

Devil's advocate: Best losing package racer gets inserted back into the ladder to face a heads-up opponent that he's got covered. Explain to the guy that's won a number of rounds that he's got a heads-up race that he probably won't win... against somebody that just lost!

Re: Where you qualify is very important

its worked for this long why change it. get beat and go home. No buy backs or earn backs.

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Or no heads ups for a reinserted match up.

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson (Post 439753)

its worked for this long why change it. get beat and go home. No buy backs or earn backs.

^^^^^ There ya go! Ain't gonna happen anyway.

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 439548)

Jim, so what did AHRA do for the remaining rounds?
I really don't see AHRA as a good example to use for a business model.
My recollection in NSS was that a ladder was generated by qualifying by closest to one's own particular index.
Even the .90 classes "qualify' closest to, after a random first round.
You need some kind of system...hence odd number bye runs.

Mark,

I really don't have any knowledge of how they made it work in later rounds. Before each round they would announce who had the bye run and that was all I cared about so I never looked into it.
At the AHRA Southern Nationals in 1976 car numbers were drawn for the bye run for the first round.
I ran two NSS races ( Gainesville, Atlanta) in '89 or '90 where they pulled cars for byes. This was when the NSS Association was in it's infancy but later went to the closest to index for qualifying but in Atlanta car numbers were drawn for match ups and byes; in Gainesville cars were matched by comparable ET's. After that the qualifying evolved to what it is today.

JimR

Re: Where you qualify is very important

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas sheehan (Post 439661)

95% couldn't tell unless they had the ladder book or Bobby Fazio's program (plug!).

Heyyaaaa thanks Tom! lol