Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Stocker2, you're the first person in over 110 responses and 7000 views to respond to the only question that I originally asked! Now we just need an answer.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy,
You have a great thread going and gotten a lot of good feedback. Isn't hitting the go-fast guys at -1.30 an attempt to answer your question?

What is the answer that you want to hear?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

billy, for your information, and you should know better

my car has never been defactored since the 70's when jr stock / superstock were divided NHRA deemed that since when compared to the 1964-1966 283 -220 i have smaller intake, smaller carburetor, more CC's and more deck heigth that the 1957-1961 283 230 hp should be rated 215 ... note that WHOPPING 5 hp for the carb (12hp and the intake now cheating 459 = 17hp >total = 29hp) geez thanks nhra.

i have never asked for or recieved a reduction in horsepower
i have never asked for the 1st or worst redlite rule (and i should)

i just race... and know eventually i'll be rid of the caddy

jack

oh i do manipulate the AFHS... guilty as charged

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Bruce, thank you! Yes I wouldn't mind going to -1.30 if that is what everybody wants. What I am finding here is that the majority of responders don't want to discuss ANY kind of change. They would rather change the subject or argue about the weather. I think that -1.30 would be fine but I would rather just see the percentage of hit moved from 3.25% to something higher. What are your comments on that?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Jack, I call that "Firing for Effect"! Since you're now awake, do you have anything beneficial to add towards answering my question?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Unlike my students, I ask a dumb question every know and then, so would someone please explain to me why the trigger at a points or open is different from the trigger at a national event?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy,
I'm not sure about a bigger hit. I think if a racer speeds past the -1.30 mark twice in one year (not each ahfs period of six months) then the second hit at 3.25 should get his attention. We still have to consider the track conditions and air.

Dave,
The Division races get a bit of a break because nhra wants people to show up at those races to set records. It's just another way to entice the racers to race at division races. And probably a fair way to do it.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Bruce, I guess where I am going with this is, don't you think that it will take too long to get the new "underrated combos" brought into line with exsisting combos?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

There are so many things that need changed with the AHFS system, I wouldn't know where to start. But I'll answer Billy's question first, with two possible answers.

A) For the first -1.40 under run a car makes, give them the current 3.25% adjustment. That would give it a quick smack now. For each successive run a racer makes of -1.40, up the percentage. Maybe 4 or 5%, with no regard to the "factoring session, first half or second). However, if a racer was to go more than 1.40 once, there is a good chance he/she may not do it again...sandbag or whatever. So:

B) Or, the opposite could be applied. Make the first hit more severe (4 or 5%) to possibly get said combination in line quicker, than they could revert back to the 3.25% for each successive hit, or even leave the higher 4-5% hit in place for successive hits. This would probably be better for what Billy is suggesting. The only bad thing is, if a racer with a combination not considered to be soft could get hit if there is Class Eliminations at a race with mineshaft air. For example, an A/SA 69 Camaro 427/425-425. Many would not consider this a soft combination. But, if Bobby DeArmond or anyone was to go -1.40 in Class, it gets 14 HP and 112 pounds (at 3.25%), that probably isn't deserved? It would help bring in line the soft combos, but could also hurt undeserving ones.

Another thing I was thinking about over the weekend (I may be wrong on this). Once a car currently goes more than -1.40 under, it gets 3.25%. But that's where it ends, right? It doesn't go any higher? So if a racer was to run -1.43 under while still holding some, he/she could then later say "Well, since I'm getting hit anyway, I'll go out and go -1.65 under and won't get hit anymore than going -1.43". Shouldn't there be a scale? Example: Runs of -1.400 to -1.499 get 3.25%. Runs of -1.500 to -1.599 get x-percent, Runs of -1.600 to -1.699 get x-percent and so on? Similar to the CIC in Comp Eliminator. I do agree with others, that any comination running more than -1.40 under should have to pass a teardown, to make sure that it was legal.

Just some thoughts...

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Its RE-DICK-U-LESS to have ANY combination run 1.40 + under in the first place. Wack the indexes first as 99% run better than .5 under to begin with. If they do not then its time to work on your car a little. Then use a lower trigger and hit it hard with at least 5%. At 5% even at 425 HP an A/S car would gain approx 170 lbs. Whats that slow one down???? 1.5 to 1.7 tenths? Worst case...if the A car has to go to AA he can take out 170 lbs.If nothing changes most of us will be 90 + years old and/or dead before some of these combos are taken care of. WAKE UP.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Terry, don't muddy the water by bringing up the indexes. I'll take your answer to mean, yes we need to increase the percentage of the instant hit.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy....Yes, the instant hit needs to be increased (min 5%) but look at the indexes also. Im not trying to muddy the waters here. Its insane for any class car to run under so much (1.15 to 1.4 +) to begin with. Its just that everyone has become used to that much under the current soft indexes. I know the argument is some cannot aford to spend that much on thier combo and still run stock eliminator but in reality its not that hard to run .5-.6 under the current indexes the way the rules are today. If the indexes were lowered then make the trigger around .6 under.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Terry, I have no problem with putting the indexes back to where they were in the 80s (.2?) and going from there but all of the triggers must move at least that much too.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I agree.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I just had a really wierd thought, not meant to be funny. Outside of the ahfs debate
but about our performance class. Use the ahfs however you fellows or nhra decides to
calculate it. But someone go out and find a sponsor for people who want to pick
good combos or just test the limits of their engine. If you go farther than 1.30 under at
a national event and pass teardown ,then you get $1000 from the sponsor for your
trouble plus some horsepower. At least you get something positive from working hard
or spending money. As it is now all one gets is HP and win one round !!
I may be all wet , but i bet a sponsor could be found. ??

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I've been watching the Lucas page on NHRA.com and still can't find Mr. Shaw being hit with the "automatic" 6 h.p. from qualifying at Belle Rose. Maybe he's getting a "pass" on that one! Now about the AHFS: no amount of h.p. hit is going to make the system fast enough, but we can make it faster than it is now. How about; 1.150 to 1.199 gets 1.25% - should be torn down
1.200 to 1.299 gets 2.5% - should be torn down
1.300 to 1.399 gets 5% (Tear down manditory)
1.400 or faster gets 10% (Tear down manditory)
that should speed it along a little!

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Woah, Don, have you been mixing your meds with alcohol again?

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy;
He's making sense.Maybe we should be doing what he's doing.Couldn't hurt.

Ed

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Looks good.....if the indexes are not lowered. Maybe start at 1.0 under and work from there. All should have a manditory tear down though before adding HP to a combo.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I agree.

Actually, Terry, if you think about it, if everybody gets factored properly, you won't have to move the indexes! ;)

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

AH YES.......But we both know that will NEVER happen.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Michael, I have a problem with "factoring everybody" when it's not needed.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I apologize for not qualifying every statement in every sentence. :rolleyes: If you read my earlier suggestion, it was to factor combinations against a baseline, based on years of data already collected. This would not be factoring "everybody". Take the broad brush in context, please.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

i answered... i do not think any "automatic" device will work because we can manipulate it...
like >
had it not been for pats $$$$ bob and i would have been in t & u and no hit would have been made...
had bob and i both had caddies we could have run to 1000 foot and saved the combo...
but>
since i towed 800 miles i was gonna race that damn caddy !

we need someone with the AXE and some intelligence too,THEN if you hit the new trigger... SHAZAAM they look at the potential of the combo and adjust it.

we need a horsepower committee

jack

if i cant get what i think is right ill take don himes post it makes most sense of all

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I have to agree with you Capt. Jack about The Dons plan. I just can't ever see it happening or a HP committee.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

3/28/09 Please take a look at the post Instant Trigger !
Now is it time !

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Yeah John, now is the time.......but shouldn't these DP and CJ's be put in their own class? I think F/X makes sense because they are NOT readily available for sale to the general public. That alone should keep them from being classified as a "stocker"! They should run the eliminator but be classed A/FX-B/FX-C/FX-D/FX, etc. I think the factories getting involved is, over-all, a good thing. I'm going to go to bed now and hope I don't have nightmares about a 2011 supercharged Q stocker that can go 11.90's!!!!!!!!

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Billy: If this sounds way crazy it is because early morning. If a car is capable of running 1.2+ under why not automatically reclassify to closest up a class say .5 under. Take a G/sa that can run 10.6 put it into a class where 11.0 is index. Better show more side by side racing and room to improve performance. Combo must pass teardown, also how about a red light exemption for drivers over 60.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Sounds good !!!!!!!!!

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

OK! Everybody sing! "What a difference a day makes! 24 little hours!

And all that I can say is I told you so! So let us go to page 1 of this thread and re-read now that any A through G car that's not a DP or CJ is junk.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Too many cars would run out of room in stock unless you made higher classes.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Then they just need to go into S/S. Thats where these abortions belong in the first place.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

I wasn't talking about the new cars, which do need to go to another class, I was talking about all of the other current A and AA cars, which at .5 under would need faster classes.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Well do these fast AA and A cars REALLY need to be running that fast on a 9 inch tire?? I remember when the low 11's was a scary ride on 7 inch tires.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

There's CJ's in super stock running 8.80's on 9 inch tires now (ask Charlie Downing). I'm starting to like the AA/FX through G/FX idea more all the time.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

And some are all over the track during the run except for the new ones running a "P/G" !

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

Ford calls it the C2.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

C-2......yea thats just more bull crap. Billy what do you think nhra will do after Indy ? Turn a blind eye and wak them on the wrist or bring some cars in line with a more realistic hp hit ?
I think their deaf dumb blind act will continue. Again as Woodro said...{SAD}

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

[QUOTE=Bob Pagano;207676]C-2......yea thats just more bull crap. Billy what do you think nhra will do after Indy ?

Not a damned thing! Until we can stick together and say "Enough is Enough" nothing will happen.

Re: We need a new "instant" trigger!
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;207681]And do you think the racers sticking together will ever happen? I dont ! Just from what I read here and hear from some pvt. emails it will be almost next to impossable to hope for. I hope that this Indy class run offs will open the eyes of some of the "Sheep" and jump start them into doing something about it. Maybe we can get Alex to do another class nationals or two and/or a sportsman association some day. Unless SOMEONE (as in ALL of us) bucks the system and fights against the NHRA this will continue until there is not one of the "old school" cars and racers left. Like the Politics of today....I hope the class racers like thier "change" !