Re: oil retention devices
 

Rick Bailey that pick sums it up. I'll try and post a pic of my father's Henry J after his crash when the rods came through the pan. It's a nice pick of him laying there and you can only see his legs. You would have thought he was dead. It looked like the wizard of oz when the house was on top of the wicked witch. It rolled over 6 times going through the traps at 135 mph. Not a nice site for my mother/his wife and 5 year old grandson to see.

Sorry to all as I said I wouldn't post again on this thread earlier, but that pic says it all

Re: oil retention devices
 

I for one don't care how long the track clean up is!

BUT,

I borrowed a stocker that was an awesome car, kicked a rod and luckily didn't wreck it...took over an hour clean up at a national event.

Broke a rod in my TD at a national open, diaper got it all never one drop on the track...zero clean up time and the car never wiggled.

Saw a guy throw a rod at a bracket race, next guy down flips 3 times in the other guys oil.

And most are right on here, it is a very small percentage problem...but if your one that loses a car or gets hurt does it really matter the percentage?

This isn't mufflers, this isn't fire jackets, this can save your car, other peoples cars and lives.

FYI, I race TD now but have raced in Stock and won a National in Super Stock so maybe, just maybe my opinion counts.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Here, no......

Not unless you are perfect, never disagree, have at least 10 world records, give your full name address and social secutiry number. AND are over 55

(sorry just kidding couldnt resist :)

Im feeling punchy today.

Re: oil retention devices
 

This is my $0.02 on the subject...

Putting oil retention devices on Stock and Super Stock cars is just ridiculous when there is not data to support the rule implementation. The addition of the device is just a ticking bomb inside the engine compartment of these cars.

I noticed many of the Super Classes racers making comments as regards to their use. Nevertheless, the Super Class cars do not launch, or operate the same as a Stocker or Super Stocker. I have never seen a Super Class car drag the bumper during a launch, or crush the headers or oil pans after a big wheelstand.

What is NHRA going to do when the first Stocker or Super Stocker catches fire due to a blanket that is soaked in oil and makes contact with the hot headers? Are they are going to require a fire extinguishing system afterward?

Engine oil have a flash point that varies from 350 Degrees F to 503 Degrees F.
The flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil.

Just imagine a contained engine compartment environment in which the exhaust headers have temperatures exceeding twice or more the flash point of oil, with a blanket soaked in engine oil and the results after the ignition of the oil vapors. Let's not forget the additional sources of ignition such as the fuel system and other electrical components that will burn too after the oil ignites...

Do not get me wrong; I am a proponent for safety. However, there are many other considerations that need to be looked at first.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Im not really disagreeing, I see valid points and I think Mandating it sucks, I choose to run one now. but we have oodles of clearance and well....after 2 oil mishaps...

Ill just say this, I can run really really fast when crap is on fire.

I cannot run really really fast when in a barrel roll........

Re: oil retention devices
 

SSDiv6, The diapers have a diaper pad within the actual diaper itself so it doesn't soak through. They are also replaceable once they get soaked. Big Wheelies and smashing oil pans makes even more sense why we should have them. I can guarantee you that if the diaper is installed properly that oil will not touch your headers nor the ground. Plus the outer blanket has a heat/burn resistant material attached to it. the diaper is on your pan very snug so nothing is coming through it.

I'm not trying to sell anyone it, but just trying to educate those about them.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Manny, with all due respect, I have seen the diapers prior to installation and have inspected them close. I am not going to go in to the technical details, but in my job, I deal with material flammability issues for aviation applications in a daily basis. The heat, chemicals and open environment in the race cars, can and will deteriorate the material with time. In the past I have addressed many rule issues with both NHRA and SFI, just to be snubbed.

Re: oil retention devices
 

The way the rules are NOW you can install a diaper if you want to.If you do go right on and do so.Just don't say we all should install them.If we oil down the track shame on us.
If your car burns to the ground with a diaper on it shame on you.
You say the diaper has an absorbant pad.Do you know for a fact it will absorb 5-6 qts. of oil.Also there's the possibility if you crack the block bad enough now you'll also have to deal with water.
And what if you have a diaper on the car and oil/water still spills on the race surface?What then? Do you ask the manufacturer for a refund?
Let's go back to getting the run away HP factors back in line.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Hey guys I'm just trying to make myself and the driver next to me as safe as possible during that 9-10 seconds of having a good time. The DRR folks have a lot of experience with diapers, so I'll let them answer your questions, but from their feedback 8 to 15 plus qts isn't a problem. The diapers or at least mine cover my entire (both sides) BBC block, so the same should apply to the water.

Re: oil retention devices
 

I grind the K member to gain 1/16" clearence for the oil pan. ( It still hits) I grind both sides of my block, including the Oil Pan rail to gain 1/16" clearence for header tubes. My Header Tubes also wrap around the frame and Tie Rod. With that said, If we have to run diapers, I will somehow get one on my car, However, I promise you if I hang the rods out, I will oil the track and risk a very good chance of a fire. ....There are over a Million safe Air Plane Flights per year. The Media only reports the half a dozen or so crashes. Maybe "ALL" Airplanes should be equiped with Parachutes to let them come down gently. JB

Re: oil retention devices
 

OK. I talked to Dennins this morning at DRE and I have to say this guy has his stuff together. He is very imformative about his product and does what he can to keep the cost down for sportsman. If you have clearance issues give him a call. He seems to have a soloution for any issue. If mandated I will only buy from him.

Re: oil retention devices
 

If some of you dont think that they get carried away with Saftey Implementations that
cost racers Thousands before they really look into it, Answer me why do they not use the automatic shut off device
for the fuel cars that was supposed to be the best thing since sliced Bread anymore??

Re: oil retention devices
 

OK everyone has their shorts in a knot over this so I just had to post a funny story about the Diapers. I run S/G and ran a diaper before they were required it that class so this is what I witnessed the first year they were required in S/G.
True Story:
Was pitted in Phoenix at the Nationals next to a S/G racer from Washington State who will remain anonymous. He unloaded the car to take to tech. He pours close to 5 gallons of water in the radiator out of a 5 gallon bucket as it was the first race of the year for him after having stored the car over the winter. He comments that did not look like it filled up the radiator but the bucket was empty and he kept looking for leaks under the car and did not see any.
He fires it up and goes to tech. When he came back it was steaming hot. He lets it cool down and gets another bucket full of water and pours it in. He has now put 7 to 9 gallons of water in a big block chevy and radiator and the radiator still shows low on water. None has leaked out on the ground yet. He pulls the dipstick to see if it is in the crankcase. I have been talking to him and he is wondering where the water is going. The dipstick shows all oil and it is clean. He then decides to look inside his block/pan diaper. He pulled one bolt on an attachment strap and pulls it down. Instantly there is a river running out of the diaper. That much water makes a pretty big puddle under the race car and in the pit area.
The issue was when he drained the block before the winter storage and installed the diaper he did not get it all out and the water when it froze pushed out a freeze plug which was also in the bottom of the diaper.
Moral of the story is the diapers will hold close to 10 gallons of water and never show a leak. Also a BB Chevy does not hold that much water in the block and radiator unless it is a really big radiator.
I helped install a new freeze plug and he went on to race the weekend but everyone there did get a good laugh out of it.
You Just Had To Be There

Re: oil retention devices
 

I can see your point.

Im sure you see mine in our desire to run one.

Now INSTEAD of making it Mandatory Across....hows this ?

Say up the Oildown to $500 at Nats, $250 Div.

And you sign a waiver saying you declined to use it, so if something bad happens then you were aware of this item specifically and not "oh I didnt know"

95% of stockers it sounds arent and wont oildown.....

Leave it to the car, but make sure they are aware of a stiffer penalty if they do and make sure the NHRA is covered.

If you wanna take your nutsack into your own hand and never have any question (as in i.e. hae been raing 30 years in a stocker and never oiled down) then cool.....

If the $500 seems stiff well thats the cost of a custom made unit.

And if you choose to run one as per the NHRA and do oildown no penalty.....

Seems reasonable to me and should make everyone happy.

If youre part of the "we dont want one" then cool you dont have to.
If youre part of the "well Id rather not but dont want to pay $500 if I do" then youre covered.
If youre like us and its not a question of If but rather when, then we have our option too...

Am I making sense ?

I should say this idea is in LIEU Of making it MANDATORY, not that I think this idea SHOULD be implemented, but would you rather have THIS ? Or Have it Mandatory ? (in the case they are going to make it madatory)

OPTIONS on alternatives are needed, not just complaints, when the NHRA makes a decision it will be because of LACK of options and alternative.....brainstorm a bit instead of just yes Ill do it, no I wont....MAYBE just MAYBE and option thats acceptable to all will happen.

In the abscence of it and rather just complaints on why you dont want it, it will happen. Thats my guess....come up with plans and alternatives, bounce them here get them to the SRAC reps....

Re: oil retention devices
 

This was posted on another web site > what do you all think of this wow


We have a 540 Chevy in a Don Davis Super Gas Roadster so it's car that gets driven around, not towed. The oil temperature in ours seems to stabalize between 220 and 230 degrees even when the car is hot lapped, I'm fine with that.

Bob

Re: oil retention devices
 

Let's see...temp between 220 and 230...in an open engine compartment with a hood scoop.
Compare to an enclosed engine compartment in a Stocker or Super Stocker with no hood scoop, the temperatures would be higher.

Also, between 220 and 230 temp, and oil with a flash point of 350 to 503 depending on the brand...bearing clearances affected, piston rings affected and aluminum rods, if used, also affected...

How many racers have an oil temp gauge? Most have an oil pressure and water temp gauge only.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Great story, however, water does not ignite.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Water temp
Oil temp
Oil pressure
Trans Temp
AFR
Brake Pressure

For all the good theyve done.

I was gonna put one of those really really cool blue light up G meters and one of the Autometer "Dyno in a Gauge" and then I can go really fast but the Ricer outlet store was plumb out......sheesh....but I did get some really cool "titanium look" pedal covers and window cranks....:rolleyes:

Re: oil retention devices
 

Okay, I'll admit , my 12th grade education may not comprehend this, but I did some quick calculations.
If a diaper fits tightly, doesn't rub on the headers, doesn't drag on the ground, isn't near the steering ,and remains completely clean and dry, how could it hold 10 gallons of water, the equivalent of 35 standard size bricks?
Where does it go, into another dimension?

Re: oil retention devices
 

Mark what it comes down to is those diapers do not fit that tight on a S/G car. If you had one you would know it well.
If you have one on a motor there are lots of places for water to go.
Put a bunch of marbles in a jar and it looks full.
You can add sand to it and it fills all the gaps and it again looks full.
You can then add water and and you will be surprised how much water will go into that same marble and sand filled jar.
It happened I can assure you.
It was comical and like I said you had to be there to appreciate it.
Rick Cates

Re: oil retention devices
 

I'm a Super Gas car and my diaper fits great....but I bought it from DRE. The real tough part about my diaper is I have a Pontiac engine.

Mark if you want to see mine stop by on Sunday.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Your marbles, sand and water makes sense.
But you can not put 32 onces of a liquid in a 16 ounce container.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Y'all are right we should all be required to buy Health Insurance....

Oh, I'm sorry...wrong discussion.

Re: oil retention devices
 

I hope everyone understands that Art, the story was just to inject some fun in the thread about diapers. They will hold a lot of liquid as I witnessed.
Like I said I ran one in S/G before they were required in I believe 2007 or 2008 in S/G.
I bought mine from Summit in 2006 and not many made custom fit diapers at that time. Mine fits OK but I have a all tube frame car with lots of room as most S/G cars do. The story was about a all tube frame car and an off the shelf diaper.
My diaper is built like a box without a top of material. I had to sew it up in the back to keep it out of the flywheel.
It is flat on the bottom all the way to the front balancer so it does not actually fit like a glove around the pan sump or block. There is lots of room to hold parts and liquid and I would think after seeing close to 10 not exactly 10 gallons poured into the radiator and I am sure some of it was in the radiator and some in the block also they will hold a lot of liquid.
My point was they do not leak and it was very funny to all of us after it was figured out. Like I said you needed to be there.
I was just trying to add a little comedy to the thread where everyone was just bashing the diaper. That was the point with the shorts in a wad.
A diaper is a safety item to me. My car runs 160+ MPH and I do not have a death wish so I ran one before they were required for S/G for safety just in case.
If everyone is so serious on the threads I will keep the funny stories for the racers at the track as most of the people I see there have a sense of humor especially in the evenings when bench racing.
Just My 2 Cents
Rick Cates

Re: oil retention devices
 

[QUOTE=63corvette;180663]I hope everyone understands that Art, the story was just to inject some fun in the thread about diapers. They will hold a lot of liquid as I witnessed.
Like I said I ran one in S/G before they were required in I believe 2007 or 2008 in S/G.
I bought mine from Summit in 2006 and not many made custom fit diapers at that time. Mine fits OK but I have a all tube frame car with lots of room as most S/G cars do. The story was about a all tube frame car and an off the shelf diaper.
Mine diaper is built like a box without a top of material. I had to sew it up in the back to keep it out of the flywheel.
It is flat on the bottom all the way to the front balancer so it does not actually fit like a glove around the pan sump or block. There is lots of room to hold parts and liquid and I would think after seeing close to 10 not exactly 10 gallons poured into the radiator and I am sure some of it was in the radiator and some in the block also they will hold a lot of liquid.
My point was they do not leak and it was very funny to all of us after it was figured out. Like I said you needed to be there.
I was just trying to add a little comedy to the thread where everyone was just bashing the diaper. That was the point with the shorts in a wad.
A diaper is a safety item to me. My car runs 160+ MPH and I do not have a death wish so I ran one before they were required for S/G for safety just in case.
If everyone is so serious on the threads I will keep the funny stories for the racers at the track as most of the people I see there have a sense of humor especially in the evenings when bench racing.
Just My 2 Cents


Rodney King said it best:
Can't we all just get along"?

Re: oil retention devices
 

When they do Ed Ill know the Apocolypse is upon us and Ill be looking for a pair of assless chaps so I can join the "cool" side of the Great Lord Humongous's Warriors of the Wasteland....now If I could just figure out how they cluched the 671 on Mad Max's car......

http://www.cinemaisdope.com/news/fil...mungus-wez.jpg

Re: oil retention devices
 

No big deal, Rick
Just trying to get an education here.
What I was picturing was something that would fit a 69 Camaro BB, where all you can see is the oil pan sump (between the headers , cross member and the flywheel )
A diaper that small would have to be full of Shamwows to hold 4 qts of oil.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Mark.....THAT'S IT!!! I'll supply the duct tape, you supply the shamwow's and we'll WASILY be ably to custom fit for a FRACTION of the cost! Sorry, DRE, we're going to take you out of business! :D
Mark, I'll be over tomorrow and we'll wrap up that turbo car as a demo!
Jeff

Re: oil retention devices
 

My 12 year old called up the "Shamwow" line it went something like this.

"Do shamwows clean up blood ?"
"I believe so"
"I mean like a LOT of blood....LOTS"
"Well you may need more than 1"
"Well how many come with an order ?"
"(cant remeber what they said)"
"Ok.....so is that enough for say.....uhhhh....., Dad how much blood is in a person ?" (acting like he was talking over his shoulder to me)
"Ok enough for say 2 people worth of blood"
"Uhhhhhhhh Im sorry I didnt hear you"
"Dad holy crap is that a lot of blood, what do people bleed more the fatter they are ?, Ok so how much is say 10 orders ?"
"Well if you buy x you get y for x dollars"
"Ok but I need the overnighted (over his shoulder, **** dad look at all that blood in em")
"Im sorry we dont do overnight processing"
"Oh I need these like NOW"
"What am I going to do ??!?!!?! with a bit of panic in his voice"
"Im sorry Maam we cant do overnight delivery" (hes 12 and his voive hasnt changed yet so they all think hes a woman, I love yanking his chain "Maam")
click

After he showed me the tape of his call, I was pretty sure the cops were gonna show up....never did.....lol

My son gotta love him.

When I told him Im buying a diaper for the car, he asked "Why does it crap its pants every time it sees YOU ?"