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-   -   Where are the lower class cars? (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=34122)

Michael Beard 06-28-2011 09:23 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 265884)
Michael, last weekend at Bowling Green, they had a really nice two car all aluminum open trailer, that just had Michael Beard written all over, it on display. :D
Man, they're probably gonna have a hard time selling something with "Michael Beard" written all over it. Gonna take a lot of California EPA-friendly brake clean to get all that off! Did the sign say, "Free For..." prior to the "Michael Beard", and was it hooked to a big ol' Cummins with the same sign on it?

Jared Pennington calls the two-car open the "Alabama Stacker". :D

Wish I could afford that stuff, but I try to race within my means. I get the bill for the DragPak motor this week so.... yeah. Glad the little car made some money this weekend! :p

Hey. Somebody get Billy another can of Krylon.
I bet that cheatin' SOB has the air conditioning rigged up as a vaccuum pump!

Bunkster 06-28-2011 09:58 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 265881)
Update: You can actually win a final round with a slow car, as long as it's not a FWD. ;)

Billy Nees won the Gamblers race at Beaver Springs yesterday. I swear you could almost detect a smile...

http://www.beaversprings.com/2011/index.1300.jpg

More pics and race report at www.beaversprings.com
The rust you see along the roof’s edge…..THAT is called character. THAT is proof of someone that pays attention to the important things in life.

That rust brings a smile to my face.

goinbroke2 06-28-2011 11:46 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
You'd grin if you saw my **** then! LOL!

GarysZ24 06-29-2011 04:09 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 265727)
I just wanted to verify that you can't win with a slow car.




.... but you can Runner-Up! :D

Had a great weekend with the Turismo at the IHRA Pro-Am at Dunn-Benson, falling to World Champ Richard Alford in the finals. Ran back to back .91's in qualifying, and it was heading for .93's and .94's all day today until it grew legs in the finals. ;)

Had a fairly productive test session with the new Super Stock combination in the Volare, too. 10 runs under our belt, picked it up .22 and 5 mph from start to finish, and we already know a bunch more things we need to do. Overall, felt like we didn't do too bad for complete EFI newbies. Thanks to Southland Speed, Sloan Racing Engines, and the large number of people who were kind enough to let us tickle their brains. Oh yeah, Richard got me 2nd round of Super Stock, too. :rolleyes: Great job as always, bud!
Yes You Can, and you can ask those racers you beat about that.... :)

As for Richard, there's always next time (with both cars).... :) x2

GarysZ24 06-29-2011 04:20 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 265803)
Dwight, I've been in a couple of interesting discussions recently with old friends who happen to have "expensive" Stockers which could be pointing at a trend. Over breakfast with friend #1, he asks me how inexpensively I could build a lower classed Stocker for him because he's "afraid of breaking his E/F/G Stocker because it's too expensive to fix". I told him 5 grand if he could find a body, he's thinking about it but he'd like to sell his $$$ Stocker first. Friend #2 wants to know if he can borrow one of my cars so that he can race more often because his D/E/F Stocker requires lots of maintainance and he's afraid of taking an AHFS hit.
It seems to me ( in my own little world), I'm sorry to say, that the majority of people that are interested in lower classed Stockers are no longer looking for a competitive advantage or even a place to hide. They want something for nothing that they don't have to work on, spend money on or maintain but they can race the wheels off of.
I've always said that "I'll help anybody that will help themselves" and I'm proud to be able to say that I've helped a couple of young men get a start and do things in this sport that I'll never be able to do but they had the "drive and work ethic" to advance themselves beyond what I could teach them. I run into people all of the time who tell me how "great" they are and if only I could "give them a car" they could be killers.
Oh well, I guess to end I should just say Stockers can still be built for a minimum investment but a lot of work and if anyone would like my help,"I'll help anybody that will help themselves". BTW if you're a dreamer or a slacker, don't waste my time.
(Friends #1 and #2 let me know what you want to do, you're friends)
Billy, your thread above adlibs the reason I quickly regained my senses from the less than 24hr period that I actually thought about selling my nearly '06 Mile High Nat's winning Cavalier! I can afford to race it, I don't have to constantly work on it, the fun factor is way up there, and the chance to do what only Mark Y., and (I think) Billy Drevo were able to do is still a challenge I embrace...Michael Beard nearly pulled off the feat last weekend, so I know it can be done, and it's just a matter of time...... :)

GarysZ24 06-29-2011 04:26 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 265849)
Hey, the Turismo's for sale. (just not ON sale) :rolleyes: "Proven R/U!" ;) (err, proven winner...) There's probably half a second in the thing if somebody bothered to work on it and spend a couple of bucks. I just choose to run it in bracket mode for the most part. Only reason it's for sale in the first place is that I can't afford a bigger truck & trailer combination to field two cars. (although I'll be doing the 'make two trips' stunt a couple more times this year to get both cars to the track, at closer venues) Throw a 19.5" tire on the front for gear ratio (or if you could make a 4.30 gearset), have Jim Bailey at Finished REM & Cryo all the transmission internals, and a couple other little tricks, and it would *fly*. I just have my hands full with the big car, that's all.

Tid bit of trivia: Didn't put gas in the Turismo all weekend. Think I used a jug and a half in the Volare. :eek: You can AFFORD to race the Turismo! :D You get great mileage towing such a light car, too. ...just sayin'!

Worst bulb of the weekend in the little car was an .042, and I knew I blew that one. The other .040 was from getting on the converter late - my bad.. Three 'teens, an .02x and an .03x. I'd say it's drivable!

While there are some challenges to slow cars, you can also turn your "disadvantage" into an advantage. I'll leave it at that for now....

Oh, Dennis or Artie, I've still got one 20x8-14 M/T slick with not too awful many runs on it.
One more of those slicks, and I'd be interested in talking to you and anyone else who has them Michael...well said on the other parts!!!

GarysZ24 06-29-2011 04:29 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 265881)
Update: You can actually win a final round with a slow car, as long as it's not a FWD. ;)

Billy Nees won the Gamblers race at Beaver Springs yesterday. I swear you could almost detect a smile...

http://www.beaversprings.com/2011/index.1300.jpg

More pics and race report at www.beaversprings.com
Great Job Billy!!!

Dennis P Chapman 06-29-2011 07:32 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarysZ24 (Post 266245)
One more of those slicks, and I'd be interested in talking to you and anyone else who has them Michael...well said on the other parts!!!
There hard to find Gary.

GarysZ24 06-30-2011 02:17 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis P Chapman (Post 266252)
There hard to find Gary.
Yeah, sad but true I guess since M/T no longer makes them. I still have one descent 20X8 inch slick, but after it wears out, I'm resigned to DOT slicks, but I suppose with them I won't have to change them at the track, since those slicks don't hold air well for more than a couple of hours. Hopefully M/T's DOT slicks have descent bite, and can run with nearly 20-24psi of air pressure? Dennis, you have any insite on that?

Dwight Southerland 06-30-2011 08:12 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Billy Nees -

How about spitting out two or three of those $5K combinations to whet everybody's curiosity??

Billy Nees 06-30-2011 08:57 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Dwight, I'll spit out some "nuggets" if you'll do the same.

Dennis P Chapman 06-30-2011 09:17 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarysZ24 (Post 266525)
Yeah, sad but true I guess since M/T no longer makes them. I still have one descent 20X8 inch slick, but after it wears out, I'm resigned to DOT slicks, but I suppose with them I won't have to change them at the track, since those slicks don't hold air well for more than a couple of hours. Hopefully M/T's DOT slicks have descent bite, and can run with nearly 20-24psi of air pressure? Dennis, you have any insite on that?
Gary
No I never tried them I found a new set of slicks at a speed shop in tenn last set they had. So as long as my son does need them for his car I am good for both cars for now. If you get any info on them let me know.

Michael Beard 06-30-2011 10:11 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Polhill told me that Avon (a sister company to M/T) makes a 19.5" road race tire.

Gary - I've run my tires down around 13psi with much more success. We tried higher pressure, but it wasn't consistent. With my "big boy" 22x8-13's, it likes 12psi. Bigger tire with a smaller rim actually gives it some sidewall to work with.

Dwight Southerland 06-30-2011 12:27 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 266551)
Dwight, I'll spit out some "nuggets" if you'll do the same.
No problem. Just be aware that my offerings will probably be of the manually-shifted variety. We might have to put some limits on this to keep people from being overwhelmed, so how about starting with three each and the three all have to be different manufacturers? Considering the extra expense of the stuff required to make a stick shift car reliable, I might have to bump the budget to $7500 for those entries, but I can throw out some automatic cars, too.

Michael Beard 06-30-2011 02:08 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Since Billy' caveat was that the body was not included in the $5K, I'd say there's a bunch of good candidates out there. It's been discussed before, but take a look at the Chevy Cobalt. These things run mid-low 16's showroom stock and 200-300# heavy (2830 min in DF/S, pretty sure I scaled ours at over 3000# at Rockingham a few years back, before we traded it in on a real car), and I'm sure there's plenty of junk to take out of them. Tires, fuel, weight, and let it eat...

Dwight Southerland 06-30-2011 03:18 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
At $5K without the cost of the car, there is a world of opportunities.

Billy Nees 06-30-2011 06:31 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Dwight, might I suggest that we keep it to rear drive, no turbos and no blowers? Want to flip to see who goes first? Should we start a new thread?

X-TECH MAN 06-30-2011 06:38 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 266674)
Dwight, might I suggest that we keep it to rear drive, no turbos and no blowers? Want to flip to see who goes first? Should we start a new thread?
X's 2 on the rear wheel drive. I will be interested in what you guys come up with. Spending $30,000 to $50,000 on a stocker dosent sound very appealing to me these days. $10,000 to around $12,000 sounds more like it. After all..... ya cant even win any class win money (except for what 3 races) these days.
P.S. How about something WITHOUT FI and a computer. I love Clayton Wrights Plymouth but have you priced a nice one lately?

Dwight Southerland 06-30-2011 06:40 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
OK. I agree on the RWD & no 'chargers. We can post them here or start a new thread; makes no difference to me. Why don't we set a time when we will have our first group of three posted? (Or would you rather go one at a time?) That way we will avoid a staging burndown.

Paul Wong 06-30-2011 06:43 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Im sure some of the combos will require g rated tires on your open trailer. Im all for another U/SA war. There are plenty of good slow combos left. Im still not sure if anything will run with Mr Shaw's cadillac without good money put into it.

Billy Nees 06-30-2011 07:22 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 266678)
(Or would you rather go one at a time?)
I think one at a time is good.

Dwight Southerland 06-30-2011 07:39 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Wong (Post 266679)
Im sure some of the combos will require g rated tires on your open trailer. Im all for another U/SA war. There are plenty of good slow combos left. Im still not sure if anything will run with Mr Shaw's cadillac without good money put into it.
Yes, the U/SA wars were fun!! Why can't there be a P/SA war or a Q/SA war or, . . . you get the drift.

x2 on the Shaw-dillac. However . . .

Michael Beard 06-30-2011 07:39 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
What's the problem with FWD cars? Hey, if you want to spend more money... :rolleyes:

1980 Plymouth Volare 225. More cam, more compression, more carb than Billy's 230 straight six Nova, both factored the same at 140HP, and I presume a 3spd over a Glide would make a big difference in one of these slower cars.

MMM! Can't find the Chrysler Conquest or Plymouth Sapparo in the Guide! :mad: I thought for sure someone had one at one time, running P/SA. Guess that must've been a turbo combination anyway. Found a 1980 Dodge Challenger inline 4 for V/SA.... hm. Dunno. 400# lighter than the Volare or Nova in V though....

That's all I've got for now... back to work.

Pvt Parts 06-30-2011 08:08 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 266693)
Yes, the U/SA wars were fun!! Why can't there be a P/SA war or a Q/SA war or, . . . you get the drift.

x2 on the Shaw-dillac. However . . .

That would be a neat project for the right person Dwight. I bet you could build one for almost nothing but the cost of the body/stock motor and machine work. About all I paid for on my SS/AM car was the motor, tranny, chassis and paint. Everything else was supplied by sponsors. In that case the car itself was even free.

Dennis P Chapman 06-30-2011 09:25 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 266687)
I think one at a time is good.
Billy
This is getting good.

GarysZ24 07-01-2011 03:43 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 266572)
Polhill told me that Avon (a sister company to M/T) makes a 19.5" road race tire.

Gary - I've run my tires down around 13psi with much more success. We tried higher pressure, but it wasn't consistent. With my "big boy" 22x8-13's, it likes 12psi. Bigger tire with a smaller rim actually gives it some sidewall to work with.
Thanks Michael, I'll have to research that road race tire...although I'm trying to get into a tire that I don't need to change over to at the track since my trailer is high enough that I need more ground clearance when loading/unloading the car to keep my ground effects from scraping the ramps. Perhaps some longer ramps (with no slots inbetween the cross bars for my tires to drop into) could help that? Plus those small slicks don't travel well, and they don't even hold air for much more than 4hrs., w/o tubes

With the low sidewall that the 20x6x14's, and 20x8x14's have, I'd be nervous to run that low of air pressure. However, running with 20psi, I've carded (with a decent burnout) 1.96-1.98 60fts, which is great for my car...I guess I could next try 18psi, but w/o tubes in my tires, I'll be leery of that low of a pressure? I'm glad to know it works with the 22's, I'll have to keep that in mind if/when I make the switch to the 22x8x14 dot's....thanks for the tip Michael....

GarysZ24 07-01-2011 04:03 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
I have an ideal that might be rather inexpensive, how about the V6's in the '78-82 Malibu's? They came with (I believe), metric Turbo 200's (which some tranny companies make convertors for), and they could be great for V/SA, and possibly U/SA. I believe they came in both the 200ci, and 229ci offerings...I'd be interested in one of those for a second car....

Dwight Southerland 07-01-2011 08:27 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Well, Billy, where shall we begin?

Tom keedle 07-01-2011 08:47 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarysZ24 (Post 266768)
I have an ideal that might be rather inexpensive, how about the V6's in the '78-82 Malibu's? They came with (I believe), metric Turbo 200's (which some tranny companies make convertors for), and they could be great for V/SA, and possibly U/SA. I believe they came in both the 200ci, and 229ci offerings...I'd be interested in one of those for a second car....


not sure where they'd fit in all this but didn't they make some 4.3 monte carlos?

oh yeah, i kinda toyed with the idea of a 74-78 amc matador coupe with a 304/727 to run u/sa...
thank god the body was too far gone....;)


but it would have been "different"

Billy Nees 07-01-2011 09:26 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 266781)
Well, Billy, where shall we begin?
Suprise! I did!

Dwight Southerland 07-01-2011 12:08 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 266791)
Suprise! I did!
?? Are you speaking out of the side of your mouth??

I figured you would start with my old standby of a '76 or '77 Camaro, '78 Camaro LT or '78 Firebird Formula, or '79 Camaro Berlinetta with a 305 for U/SA.

Billy Nees 07-01-2011 12:30 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
that would have been my next one!

Alex Denysenko 07-01-2011 01:05 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 266693)
Yes, the U/SA wars were fun!! Why can't there be a P/SA war , . . .
. . .
I'm your huckleberry................:D

Jim Wahl 07-01-2011 01:54 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Denysenko (Post 266854)
I'm your huckleberry................:D
You gotta love it!!! Jim:D


.

Jack McCarthy 07-02-2011 12:57 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
the usa wars were just that FUN... i put a lot of work into the shootouts, we ran for $1500 1st year and $2500 2nd year > but year 2 was 1/2 the cars

also there were 3-5 decent cars that never came and if you cant come for $2500 class win money in usa you do not wanna race.

anyway with the ehancements no one will ever build a 4 door, a wagon or any other ODD combo because now EVER car fits the class we no longer use shipping weights as class breaks just add or subtract... just another rule change (and there has been hundreds) that sucked.

billy nees for president, pat joffrion for ceo, wesley & travis technical directors > just tell me where to send my dues I AM IN !!!

captain jack

Jim Wahl 07-02-2011 07:38 PM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy (Post 267053)
the usa wars were just that FUN... i put a lot of work into the shootouts, we ran for $1500 1st year and $2500 2nd year > but year 2 was 1/2 the cars

also there were 3-5 decent cars that never came and if you cant come for $2500 class win money in usa you do not wanna race.

anyway with the ehancements no one will ever build a 4 door, a wagon or any other ODD combo because now EVER car fits the class we no longer use shipping weights as class breaks just add or subtract... just another rule change (and there has been hundreds) that sucked.

billy nees for president, pat joffrion for ceo, wesley & travis technical directors > just tell me where to send my dues I AM IN !!!

captain jack
Right on!!! Jim

.

Dwight Southerland 07-03-2011 08:15 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Changing the focus a bit here, but I noticed three unusual entries at Lebanon Valley this weekend:

K/S '71 Mustang Dean Cook. -.752 If this is true, it would have to be a 351 C with a 2-bbl.
M/SA '69 Camaro Joe Mocci -.601 350 2-bbl
Q/SA '70 Chevelle Andy Kinash -.748 307 2-bbl

Kudos for those trying something different!

Billy Nees 07-03-2011 08:38 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Dwight, Mocchi and Kinash are 2V 350s. I think the K/S is Deans son in a 95? Mustang.

Dennis P Chapman 07-03-2011 10:19 AM
Re: Where are the lower class cars?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 267131)
Changing the focus a bit here, but I noticed three unusual entries at Lebanon Valley this weekend:

K/S '71 Mustang Dean Cook. -.752 If this is true, it would have to be a 351 C with a 2-bbl.
M/SA '69 Camaro Joe Mocci -.601 350 2-bbl
Q/SA '70 Chevelle Andy Kinash -.748 307 2-bbl

Kudos for those trying something different!
Andy Kinash wagon is a 1969 and 350 like Billy said.


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