Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bruce I am not taking advantage of anyone.I am racing within the rules.GM builds a car NHRA sanctions it I buy it I race it.I have learned that every racer is looking for some advantage and some outside the rules.Just look at every thread posted on this site.Each one of them contains people saying that something is not fair.Competitive sports engaged in by competitive people will always involve tumult.Its the nature of competition.Whether its NASCAR compalining about the body angle of a car,or someone saying HP is soft there will always be something.You need to get used to it and deal with it because it will not go away.I always play by the rules whether they favor me or not but the point is to keep playing.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Great job on your win Andrew.
with people saying the old cars can't compeate with the new cars, what does this look like?
I see two cars that qualified .003 apart, what I also see is the new car ran it right out the back and the old car lifted or hit the brakes at some point.
How else do you explain the sudden increase of 7 mph on the run against each other?
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

How does any racer take advantage of a fellow racer if his race car is built buy the nhra rules and all work is legal?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I'm trying to figure that out too. :confused:

If I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build a Cobra Jet or Challenger, I'd be an arrogant rich man taking advantage of class racers everywhere.

But if I win the lottery tomorrow and go out and build some obscure grossly underfactored "old" combination, I'm just another class racer, right?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

You know David, you seem like a really nice guy but you don't understand how things work at nhra. These cars were put into Stock because the OEM's had money. nhra sold out that's all.

The OEM's wanted to sell these cars. But before doing so they needed really soft factors to make certain they could sell them. The OEM's don't give two hoots about nhra or it's rules they just wanted to get these cars out there. Let's face it. These cars would be as dead as KFC Chicken if they were rated at their real potential. This is the main reason the new cars are in Stock - because racers wanted to take advantage of the gifts. Racers did not buy them because they plan on sticking around for X number of years to make them competitive. nhra simply stabbed it's loyal Sportsman Racers in the back for a few dollars. And, in the end, nhra has lost credibility as a sanctioning body. But that means nothing to them. Money does!

Look at this Indy deal. Now nhra supposedly wants to create some sort of show down race. But they have to create weight breaks to prevent the CJ's from blowing the Mopars off the track. Then think about the hypocrisy of this event. These cars are currently banging the hell out of Stockers in Stock but now they need a weight break for the "Show."

It would fair much better for all of you new car guys to admit that you have a huge advantage as a result of the gifts from nhra. Then petition nhra for your own class. Heck, you might have fun. Run the new car singles in a non ahfs Combo race for class at Indy. Sounds like fun to me.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

If you win the lottery?? The occaisional grossly under factored "production" car is preferrable to a concerted effort by the OEM's and nhra to flood Stock with ringer cars.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Look at this Indy deal. Now nhra supposedly wants to create some sort of show down race. But they have to create weight breaks to prevent the CJ's from blowing the Mopars off the track. Then think about the hypocrisy of this event. These cars are currently banging the hell out of Stockers in Stock but now they need a weight break for the "Show."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they come up with the weight breaks because, as an example, the cobra jets are for the most part in
AA and BB and the mopars are not. That would be like asking an A stock and a B stock to run heads up. The B stock is going to want some concessions, which is where the weight breaks come from.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The 07 Shelby rated at 500 has same rocker arms, heads and Larger lift on the cams then the 08 CJ. I also didn't notice a blower pulley size stipulation on the GT500 like is on the CJs.

The 08 CJ has the same blower as the 2013 GT500 but with a slightly less powerful inlet port shape of the blower. It's a 2.3l eaton roots. The stock 07-12 GT500 was 2.1l Eaton roots.

If a new car dumped 7mph+ they are crucified in the streets. If an older car does it while running over a second under the index "they are being a smart racer keeping some performance in the bag."

Running a new car your labeled as a rich guy, that is beating up on the poor man with no work whatsoever. Weilding a new car that a person is interested in with a soft rating is destroying the class.
But searching the guides to find an old car that is underfactored is smart racing.

I'm not rich, I'm building a car from scratch with some great friends help, blood, sweat and tears. All using cash out of my own pocket. I don't appreciate the stereotyping but everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Enough already ! ! ! You have no proof what so ever that the NHRA sold us or anyone else out - that may be your opinion but its just that .And I do understand how things work - remember I'm the NHRA shill ..................

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

This is kinda fun.By the way I am not in the showdown because I am running super stock not stock.Wish there was a superstock showdown,and I do wish they formed a permanent heads up class like the old Top Stock.Had an absoulute ball racing that even though I could not beat that old 69 Camaro with my 2000 firebird.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The new cars in Stock is proof. And you have no proof they didn't because they don't allow shills in on company business.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

They NHRA changed the rules on the 50 car build it was 50 of each combo, nut like the COPOs no manuals or 3 speeds built just listed on paper and not 50 of each combos. Or like the Fords one one engine combo and 3 paper engine combos that you couldn't even a compelte engine from the dealer.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Look at my response on page 12, that was the first race for that car. As far as the qualifying times are concerned, I was up against the #1 qualifier in D/SA first round, he was up against #5, it seems that I had my car on kill and he did not, there's no reason to run 1.00 under if it's not necessary to win.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I see now where they have changed the index to 9.90. What is the purpose of the index anyway? If its a heads up type formate, or is it because they only want people that can run at least 9.90 or quicker to even get into the showdown? Or do you have to be able to run x amount under the index to get into the showdown?
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

All Stockers, regardless of Class/Index, need to run so far under to make the final eliminations (128 car qualified field). In 2004, it took -1.051 (-.751 under the current Indexes) to make the field. 180 or so Stockers were there that year. Last year, only 140 showed, the bump spot was -.617 under to qualify.

I think making the Index 9.90 is a bit more fair. At 9.70, it would have almost taken an 8 second run just to qualify for the "big show".

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

But in this everyone is the same index. So how many spots they are running 16/32 etc. wouldn't matter if a person was 1.20 under or 1.20 over if it was top spots you're in. Just like all other heads up classes. The only reason I see having an index at all is to utilize the AHFS instead developing a rules committee with representatives from each camp to make weight adjustments to even the field. Outside of that no reason to have an index IMO.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I have to ask you how you feel about the 1970 Camaro 350 ci 360 HP combination? In 1970 it was given a 10 HP gift over the Corvette (in regards to the classification). In the early 2000's it was given an even bigger gift by the NHRA when it was reduced to 325 HP. You seem to run at the front in D/SA with that combination, so that is why I ask.

(My thoughts are that you picked a good combination from the guide and ran with it.)

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Ask the DragPak racers that will DNQ for the event on a 9.90 Index. They might disagree with you.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Nothing about this whole format makes sense. I'll use as an example, Mustang running in AA. AA index is 10.00, so now in order for him to race in this shootout, he looses a tenth of index as well as needing to add about 300 lbs. In a perfect world, thats 4 tenths in performance by those changes alone. The cars that were running 8.90's early in the year are now in the 9.20 to 9.30 range. Add 300 lbs and take away that tenth and guess what, now they are only 3 to 4 tenths under the index. That would be a hell of a note to race in the showdown and not even be able th qualify for the field.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I definitely have a good combination, I would never argue that. As far as the horsepower reduction goes, it would not be competitive at 360. I would be in B/SA at almost the same weight (3230 vs 3255), and there's no way I could run with the LS1s or a 396/375 or some of the other good B/SA combinations. Currently, my car is rated 5 less than a Corvette, but I think the Corvette would be just as fast if not faster under the index, especially since it's a stick only combination. It weighs 115 lbs less in C than I do in D, so it's only about .03 the body style would have to make up. Actually, I think my car would be faster with a stick, anyone want to donate a Jerico?

I do have one of the faster D/SA cars, but I don't think my combination is any better than some others. A 400 Pontiac rated the same and is just as good or better, hell it has 50 more cubic inches. Mine is probably better than a 396/325 or 396/350, but it's not even in the same ballpark as an LS1 in a Corvette. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any carbureted small blocks rated more than mine.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Thanks for the answer.

May I also ask what year the car was built into it's current configuration? I take it that it has aftermarket brakes and a fuel cell?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

What I'm saying the index would be there only for referance for the AHFS. Do not have it for "you must run a minimum of X.XX or under". Have the weights set-up and the fastest XX amount of cars get in to fill the field. If a car ran 11.00 it wouldn't matter because there was no minimum run time. If it was a 32 car run field the fastest 32 ETs get in regardless if they are under the index. That would boost participation. That is my opinion.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

It has aftermarket brakes and fuel cell, yes. My car was finished over the winter of 2009/10 so this is only my third year. My dad built his 1971 Camaro in 1992 and has run the 71 version since then (similar, but slightly lower compression and different head) except for a while when he ran the 350/270. He built the motor in my car a few years before we built my car, but never ran it much because he thought it wasn't as good as the one he runs, now they seem to be about the same.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I agree, adding 300 lbs will slow the AA 8.90 cars to 9.20 to 9.30. After that check your math; 9.20 to 9.30 under the 9.90 index is 6 to 7 tenths under. Last year, with about 140 cars in attendance, it took .617 under to qualify in Stock.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The last 2 events the "8.90" cars (Bo/Drew/Don) have been running 9.2-9.3s in qualifying. He's adding tenths for the 300# based on what they are currently running in weather conditions.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

is it not REFRESHING to hear / see all the guys who's FACTOR has been shoved up our *** now seem to be concerned that THEY might be treated UNFAIRLY in the NHRA indy shootout program...

damn i feel your pain guys...
you are lost because spending more money wont fix an unfair factor will it ???????

jack mccarthy

and feeling a little better :)
p.s. roy dean... you wanna run my car at indy ????

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Capt, easy, down boy. All we doin is trying to race heads up without fooling with all the old cars. Nothing to lose. You gonna have to buy me a beer at Indy. Personally I will stay in the dark areas with the rest of the common folks. I might run D in Indy, just for a change. What you think?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

All I want to know is if jeff or anyone needs a good footbrake drIver for the Shootout.
I will be there running superstock. Jeff you could get atleast a six pack head start on everyone if you let me drive. Oh wait damn it you done pretty good in the eliminator at this race last year if I remember correctly.Lol

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

jeff as always my cooler is your cooler... an of course im just having fun !!!

hell i wanna come to indy to watch the fun !!
jack

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

If a car enters Factory Showdown at Indy will they be in that class all race? For those of us who plan to race what will be the maximum weight that each car will be allowed to weigh and still fit the class. The maximum weight should be Minimum weight plus .5 X current Hp. including driver.

It could get real interesting if the weather is hot and humid and the new cars are at min weight trying to qualify in the field of 128. I think all of the cars in that class will need to run 9.07 to get safely in the show.

Me and a bunch of old and new gearheads will be pressing against the fence to get the best view of the show.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

NHRA just took the index up to 9.90....Guess that was last week, DRC sure is slow to the draw on that one.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

We all should have 3 speed auto trans. Ford got them; blown and unblown, chevy has the same, mopar has them on v8 unblown, but not on the v10 cars. We would be at least closer to the blown stuff anyway. Just looking to get a little closer. Maybe a 512 CID with a 5 speed. Move your feet when you let go of the clutch pedal.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Can't MOPAR submit a three speed for that one?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Hey Jeff, how bout you just trading in one of you DP's on a Mustang CJ ?? Seems easy enough, and you are in the car business right??

Hey, you might really get to liking it......

RJ

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

They should be able to, maybe it was NHRA just lost the page with it.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

It has been tried numerous times and rejected each time - the odd thing is they authorized a stick which was never built or submitted - go figure

Ron

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

5 speed stick?

Now you are talking! I bet you could make that happen too!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

We have what we need, but time is a factor. My wife became very ill, hence we backed out of Denver. We are looking at the project now. I think we have all the pieces for a 4 or 5 speed. 700 lbs torque.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

RJ, when you drive a Mopar and I drive something else, then the world will have tilted on it's axis.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Very sorry to hear that - prayers are sent for her recovery

Drag racing is just not that important sometimes

Ron