Re: The damage recently done
 

Wrong Billy. The original 50 did not ALL have aluminum intakes. Only the cars that ran SS were allowed the aluminum intake along with flattop pistons and the .600 lift cam. If they had all come with aluminum intakes, they would have all been allowed to run that way since 1968.

Here is the website address:

www.428cobrajet.org/id-intake

Re: The damage recently done
 

1968 =335 H.P.......2012 =383 H.P.....Not quite the same weight for C/SA !

Re: The damage recently done
 

One of those over rated cj's ran 9.98 at Earlville in A/SA. Pretty impressive.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Greg, is that first 9 sec A/SA pass?.......??

Re: The damage recently done
 

Like I said, I'm not a FFFord guy. The fact still remains, NHRA isn't going to start checking VINs.
Jason, maybe you should bring this website up to the powers that be at NHRA!

Re: The damage recently done
 

Were those flat tops fly cut for the exhaust valves????

Re: The damage recently done
 

Jason provided the website, here is your answer.

Piston
(Cast Aluminum) C6AZ-6108-AY, 10.7:1 CR Forged, Dished/Eyebrows
11.0:1 CR

Re: The damage recently done
 

its 27 years already?

Re: The damage recently done
 

As I remember the BIg Block Chevrolets received a crate motor intake that was much bigger and better than the stock one with no HP penalty. I think it was off of the 502 crate engine. Those cars are going 9.60's not bad as well. Not to much outrage about that.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Not really when you consider that Lance has arguably the fastest CJ in the country by a few tenths and I'm sure its got every bit of Pro Stock technology that he can use to get it there. 9.984 on an 11.00 index is only 1.016 under. Now if I could get one to run a second under then I would be impressed but you're talking about a guy who's brother is arguably the best engine builder/tuner in NHRA Pro Stock. I think this separates Lance from the rest of us.

Re: The damage recently done
 

No Chris,,,, that honor goes to Bobby DeArmond,, '69 427 Camaro at Mission Raceway B.C. in May of 2001. That run is one of the highlights in the DVD "Four Days In May" that many on here have in their collections.
Danny Durham

Re: The damage recently done
 

Does this make all of my old AMC race parts worth a bunch of $$$$$

Re: The damage recently done
 

Interesting the AMC attacks have been directed exclusively to Jeff Lee.
The AMC racers are a very small community of racers when compared to the Big 3 racers.

I will bet Jeff was not the only AMC racer that made the request to NHRA for the inclusion of the Group 19 parts. Jeff races only in NHRA, nevertheless, they were approved years ago for use in IHRA.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Jeff just makes himself the easy target :D :p

Re: The damage recently done
 

Yeah only 11 years behind... that's not bad:rolleyes:

Re: The damage recently done
 

[QUOTE=SSDiv6;345517]Like Dwydendorf commented; the rules seems to have preference on certain car makes and are not applied consistently across the board.


We can all point to how many things NHRA has allowed throughout the years. Another example is when they allowed automatic transmissions in the 1967 Galaxie 427 with two 4BBL's; they were a stick car only from the factory. When I asked NHRA about it, they said since an automatic trans was available in the Galaxie model, they allowed it although it was not available with the engine

So is this the standard on all applications or do you need to get each combo approved using this rule???

Re: The damage recently done
 

Yes...well aware. Pretty sure that was some sarcasim

Re: The damage recently done
 

Sorry Charlie, but that statement is not correct. My car (as many other Stockers) had over 140,000 miles before I turned it into a race car. The Cobra Jets, Drag Paks and new COPOS were never available to the general motoring public and certainly not legal to drive on public roads.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Plus the fact that the new cars that ARE available to the general motoring public and ARE legal to drive on public roads.........are NOT legal to be raced in Stock class.

Now explain that one to somebody who decides to take their newer car off the street and set it up for Stock Eliminator. THEY WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT !!!!!!!

Re: The damage recently done
 

Any of the new cars can be put into the guide per request. However it would be rough for them to be competitive since the SAE rating of the new cars is MUCH more strict and legitimate to rating them actual power output. The new cars can't be just rated a bogus number for insurance reasons like the 50-60s cars. Plus the manufacturing process, technology and tolerance of the new engines make them extremely efficient as produced and don't benefit as much it once did from simply blueprinting and building each peice to nominal tolerances.

That being said people with the new cars can also build clones. Some simple items and boom you now can compete as a CJ as they use a lot of part that come straight from the road going modular engine rides. Heads, block, crank, lifters, roller finger followers, intakes, Superchargers, ECM etc.

There is nothing stock about different forms of "stock" racing anymore and haven't been for a long time. How many cars out racing are exactly how the rolled off the factory assembly line? Some of the new cars are but even they don't remain that way for long either.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Nice line of BS you just printed there. What if somebody does not want to race a Supercharged car? Maybe they would want to take their existing street car (of which there are tens of thousands made) and set it up for Stock class.

Sorry, you only get to run one of the purpose built racecars or you can build a clone of a purpose built racecar. Take your perfectly good original engine and drivetrain out, then purchase one of the race engines just so you can race Stock.

Someday in the future this not allowing regular production newer street cars in Stock is going to bite the sanctioning body big time.

Re: The damage recently done
 

If anyone shows up with a stock engine chances are they aren't going to qualify. This is a performance based class. It takes an extreme amount of dedication to run this and other eliminator classes.

The CJs have NA modulars also for 2010-2012-2013.

Re: The damage recently done
 

And I've been saying the same thing until I'm blue in the face! If the AMA is the "keeper of the specs", then open up the book to each and every vehicle that the Auto Manufacturers (foreign and domestic) made available to the general public for the last 20 years. You don't need to show any favoritism, you can keep the rules as liberal as you already have, and you just increased the number of competitors in our Eliminator.

Lew

Re: The damage recently done
 

That would be a fine goal except for the fact that the era when the AMA collected and published all the specifications for the members' offerings was short-lived and contained information that would be subject to high level debate and biased scrutiny, In fact, in its history the organization referred to as the AMA was reorganized several times, redefined several times, renamed several times and dissolved in 1999. Its the subject of a dicey history during all its existence. The real heyday was during WWII when the 654 manufacturers related to the automobile industry banded together to transform into a formidable war-machine manufacturing alliance. (George Romney was a major factor in making that happen.) Even with AMA specs, NHRA allowed Hydromatic transmissions behind fuel injected sedan deliveries, four-speed transmissions behind 2-barrel 283s and "enhanced" camshaft duration specs. The governing bodies are the major source of difficulty. What we may need every so often is a Jubilee, where all the enhancements are eradicated, all standards are re-established and let the chips fall regardless of whether or not individual people feel it is "fair". Fairness and judgment are sometimes fleeting and ethereal, definitely not Webster's definitions and mostly lip-service in Stock eliminator. The best effort that has been done to pacify the desire for fairness is shoe polish. All other efforts has been far less than satisfactory for a group of participants who think they are endowed with rights to be heard and attended to.

Re: The damage recently done
 

A very well thought out and written comment, Dwight! Thank you!:)

Lew

Re: The damage recently done
 

All this depened on if as a auto manuf you adjusted (published your own for NHRA) your AMA spec many did!

Re: The damage recently done
 

X2! The OEM's would consult with racers prior to submiting specs to NHRA.
Just like overlap on the Mopar Big Blocks; if I recall it was like 320 degrees in the spec sheet.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Spy photo of the new Billy Nees Dime Rocket wood-gasifier and propane powered GMC truck. Think it fits V/SA...

http://www.staginglight.com/images/gasifier.jpg

Re: The damage recently done
 

Pontiac started all of that. I'll bet engines ran real good with 320* of duration!

Re: The damage recently done
 

ahhhh yes the picture is coming much clearer now ,,, lets do some research on that combo!!!!!!!! i want documanttion on the i.d of the tubing size ,,,,,,

Re: The damage recently done
 

Does each of those tubes count as a cylinder? If so, it can't run V/SA - I think there are more than 6!

Re: The damage recently done
 

You should see the cost of the approved wood chips you have to burn in the gasifier to pass fuel check...

Re: The damage recently done
 

And it gives new meaning to the old phrase "put it to the wood!".
I like the paint.

Re: The damage recently done
 

To bad that's the way they came! Pontiac was one of the only manufacturers that put enough cam and valve spring in their performance engines. First computer designed cam to go in a production car, 1968 ram air 2 Firebird. That was the 041T cam used later in the Ram 4 cars.

Re: The damage recently done
 

That's a sleeper combo!! 351 V6 ! Solid lifter cam ! Rated at 125 HP! Idles around 400 rpm. With the high flow 350 CFM Stromberg 2 barrel. He is going to build a 6 into 1 header for it! Now if we can get some paperwork for an over the counter 780 Holley , and aluminum intake we would be talking!

Having a picture of Billy without a hat, is like a picture of a Yetti! Very rare.

Re: The damage recently done
 

Is the hacksaw used to adjust the length of the velocity stack(garbage can)?

Also, prudence demands a second fire extinguisher, possibly a third?!

Re: The damage recently done
 

this is funny because we stuck a factory ram air 4 cam in a 74 TA with 8:1 compression and we did get it to idle (it was a mess ) but this thing had a power band like a two stroke dirt bike ,,, and that was the hot ticket back in the day gmonde

Re: The damage recently done
 

Pontiac had advertised durations that far exceeded the actual duration (which was no slouch for the day). And of course it matters where this figure was obtained from (.002, .005. etc)
Pontiac did this for class racing. If a cam had an actual 320* of duration, I'm not sure it would run!

I also had a real deal RAIV / 4-speed / 4.33 rear '69 GTO. Can't imagine what that must be like in a '69 Firebird!

Re: The damage recently done
 

Jeff, Bet you wish you had that Ram Air IV GTO now. Worth a lot of coins. Cars that we had and let go over the years ----Whew !

Re: The damage recently done
 

Jeff, for what it's worth. My Lemans that I raced for almost all my time in class racing started racing life as a bracket car. My first engine was a TRW piston, stock shortblock with d port 4 barrel heads and a Torker intake. The valvetrain consisted of a Crane Blurprint 041t cam and stock rockers.
The duration on that cam at .002 tappet lift was 308 in 320 exh. At .050 231 int 240 exh. 114 LC. That cam idled at 900 rpm with 14 inches of vacuum. I ran 12.18 109 in a 3700 pound car with 4.10 gears and 28 slicks.
That cam was right from Crane. The lobes were in the right place, and it had slow ramps. This is the way those cams were, like it or not.