Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. We had 5 classes over there. Stock, any 200 cc 23 degree chevy, 20 degree ford, 18 degree mopar, modified stock, same heads,stock option same heads with different gearing, cams etc. Hot Stock, different chassis, and motor combos, same heads, and then the, what we called C classes. From C-11.5, to C-4. All meaning their pounds per cube classification. We went with the Brodix spec head, because of the spec cast into the intake, and exhaust port. Easy to run a scope down, and take a look. Last 10 big shoot-outs at the end of the year were decided by less then a 1\2 tenth. Most by mere thousandth's. .1 per 1\2 lb. per cube. .4 pro tree. Have seen as many as 1,600 people there on a Saturday night. But, there ain't a hell of a lot to do here. People who raced there, Chuck Aronson, Cale Aronson's dad ,Bob Morton, ex driver of the Cooper and Kreigh, Pizza Hut pro stock car, Dale Ruff, owned one of Grumpy's early camaros, and class winner at Indy in the 70's, Billy Ray, AHRA SS world Champ, and dad of Ricky Ray, Earl Earl's C\SM NHRA car, Terry Murphy, Al Parker, Delon Joseph, The Bridger bros, Earnie, Dave, and Steve Bridger. You don't know them but you would, went 4.85, 142 mph, with a 326, at 5.5 lbs. one 850, 23 degree, and a powerglide. Totally legal. Also, Chris Paget, comp cams. Raced there right up to when he went to work for Comp.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Sounds like you have the starting point at your track. With help and information spread maybe others would accept your set of classes as the basis. As long as it is lb/cubic inch with specs it is all good.
Car age is a good discussion too. Reasonable expense limit this way.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I closed my track for good, in 2008. Not because it didn't work, but because of two reasons. One, because of time. We also run a decent sized construction company. Two, we had a problem that would not come into national play. Three or four people trying to cause the failure of the track, all because they couldn't figure our how to be competitive, and thought they'd ruin it for everyone. Just got tired of playing childish games. The track is for sale, and have turned down two offers, and another party is looking at it as we speak. I would have loved to run there, and not had the headaches, or responsibility of running the track. Thanks. Retirement from racing looks sweeter, the older I get. My BEST memories of racing are at that little hick track. Eddyville, in my area, is 10 times nicer then Bethany. But I realize, I would not be picking the location to start. I think the area most wanting this, deserves it. I do think year of car is important, and keeps the batmobiles out. I do know a 67 deuce won't stay with a 2008 cobalt. That much I know. Plus, they're cheaper, by far. 80, and down works for me.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Gene Fulton.......got one of Mark Osborne's EM Bobby?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Found these on the net

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Blkjack, I have some in an old box full of gold, just haven't had time to scan.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

you don't want to get me started on old Modified Corvettes, lol
I have over 700 old modified corvette pictures and over 5000 modified eliminator pictures saved

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Please post them. Nitro joe

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Dick/Randy,

This is an interesting thread. Obviously you are talking single carb like the old days of Super Modified or multiple carbs like Modified/Gas? Did I read in this thread about tire size limited or whatever fits? Limited allowment of trick parts would probably result in more participation as people could build a car and at least compete. A year restriction on car bodies would keep things looking like the old days but, like someone stated, could be cost prohibitive. I yearn for the days of 50 pound flywheels, no 2-steps and high RPM's.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I just stated tire size as a spec. Don't really care, other then a 10.5 limit would look awful goofy on most old narrowed SS cars. Those cars are still 1\3rd price of the front wheel conversions. I'd say, no two steps, or chips. No computers, or hook-ups for computers.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

There's a lot of these older cars in the super classes that could be converted. You'd have to relax some of the body restrictions, I think. But, if they have a min. wt. Who cares. They are also cheaper. Also, make all clutch, and shift. We did this by installing a camera to the cage to a car under suspicion, and made them run .02 of their best pass, and .01 in the first 60'

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Super Gas chassis, Door cars would be a little stretch compared to SS cars but I agree Wt limit would help. ANy age car but NO fwd conversions would really help costs. Guy could chose any cheap chassis he has or could buy. Min Wheel base might be necessary. I agree no computer, maybe recording device. like tach playback ok. 4 barrel class and 2 x 4 class same wt so guys could alternate if they want.
Fewest possible classes to start so everyone shows up TOGETHER, Max 3 classes.
Lots of really interested people in Simple, Cheap, Fun....

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Lot of old Super Gas cars to be had. When you talk of cheap and inexpensive, I am thinking stock chassis/suspension. Basically about like an old Super Modified car. I like the stick shift only/no electronics part!! Hell, they added the Top Sportsman stuff why not a class or two like this?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

The year ain't that important to me, but just so everyone knows, an old car will be .05 to ,1 slower then say an F body. I have no problem with a 2 4 barrel class, as long as it's still a cast aluminum intake, and available. As long as there is a min. wt. you'll find there ain't a lot there. We ran every type car in the world over there, and seen nothing except the lbs. per cube difference. I am not sure on the disadvantages of older, boxier cars, just relaying what I'm told.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

If NHRA would back this, the floodgates would open. Wyatt Halden already told me, he'd do a whole article on it, and be at the opener. Let the head company's make the call on the heads, and you have to make tech easy, and I have, what I think are real good solutions, if it ever gets that far. They need to realize, if they do it, you can't announce it one week, and expect it to work the next. It needs to be announced a year in advance, to get ready, and get sponsors ready.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy, I got permission from my Div Director to run TOP/SS and TOP/STK at national opens and a points meet. That would be a perfect test for your guys to show what it is like to NHRA racers. At least that is one method if BIG officials frown on it.PRI show will be good place to bring up the BASIC MODIFIED idea again as Cheap and popular.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

x 2......

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Think a nice 'lil 287 c.i. would do just fine....

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Thanks for all your work . Dick Butler and Randy Wilson . Some times the future is brighter from things from the past .MODIFIED!!!!!!! And yes thanks to all the people who love the best class ....... JB

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Thanks vette man. Sometimes you feel like you're flogging a very dead horse. And Dick, that would be great, but
I know I ain't ready, and I doubt anyone else is. I have 3, count em 3, spec motors, a 289, 285, and a 322. But NOTHING ready to go nationally. Dick, all joking aside, what's your thoughts on limiting the crank to nothing knife edged, or factory castings only? Stroke not an issue. Could do like we did, and make all put a 1" plug in pan to check out crank. Also, rings> Would you limit them to .043, instead of the new $1,300 rings? Would require tear down. Just things to think about. I have a lot of ideas to try to keep the cost down. Also, when is the PRI show? Might try to get there, and talk to some of you guys. Let's be careful, and not let this die because of over confidence, and over thinking this deal.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

SO true. LONGING for it does nothing. Working at it to take something that was good, worked, appealed to racers and spectators and adapt to modern day needs of the sport can be constructive.
Randy maybe discuss for the Class Nationals as a "test". Plenty of lead time.
Come up with a Cash Prize from donations of Mod lovers or Sponsors to make it worth it for cars which are preped and show at Columbus.
Thats how I got the cash for TOP/SS and we paid Hundreds of $ at the meets to Win, R/U, and Semi cars.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Oh well, it's fun talking about it.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

How about a list of actual racers who would actually attend. Who writes the final rules? Do I need to attend the PRI show? I think that quick is a little premature, but I damn sure will meet, or discuss with any in power to get their thoughts, and present my case. I know if NHRA, and, or IHRA don't do something to bring back some interest in local, affordable no break out racing, we are near the end of drag racing as a spectator sport. If i'm the one who is responsible for the rules, then by nature, I'll tend to see the rules only in my light. I would love to see it go, but
I think we would have to present a realistic car count, and racers by nature tend to see how something plays out, before jumping in.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Also Dick, Top stock, and Top SS are already out there. I know of zero spec cars totally ready to roll. What we have to realize is, a body dumb enough to dump Modified, is probably dumb enough to never try it again. Just me thinking out loud. No one will buy the heads until they know it's a go.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy I agree whole heartedly.
Time for more research with the ORGs.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Fair enough. Keep me posted.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

How about a couple of prototype entries at the Class Nationals for a good 'ol "gear-
jammin...wheel-standing...door-slamming" 2 out of 3 match race?

Great place to showcase this idea...as you stated earlier, Dick....

Got to run it by Mike B. though.....

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I would furnish a spec motor, for a reputable SS guy, that's 322 cubes. It's the biggest I have but someone would have to let me know, because It's in pieces right now. There. I put my money where my mouth is. Or, I could put in in the cobalt, if it don't sell. I know it's not a legal spec car, but they would get the drift. The deuce ain't done, and won't ever get done unless something like this goes.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I would furnish both engines if need be, but the problem is, one is a 289 c.i. I have another I have not ever ran, that I built right before I closed the track, and it's still on the stand together, 285 c.i. but has not even been dynoed. Hate to take a chance, unless I know all party's will be happy. Now, just for example, I built that 285 for under $10,000. And the 289, with some used parts, such as crank, pistons, for under $8,000, and it produced 592 H.P.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Consider allowing any rwd car regardless of year. Maybe some restriction to keep exotic cars out. The gen III F-body cars were serious MP cars, i.e. Coleman Roddy. Also, a mid-80s Mustang or other Fox platform FoMoCo would be cool. Heck, even a new Mustang, Challenger or Camaro would be a cool MP car. Can you think an LS engine, a modular V8 or a new hemi with a tunnel ram?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Needed some guys with rollers in the garage to play.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I'll let qualified SS racers use those engines for a match race. I suppose we could run one at 9, or 9.5 lbs. and the other at 10.5, or 11 lbs. per cube. They need to give me a little time to get them ready. The two 750 cfm carbs run nearly identical on the track, and the dyno. The LS engine deal, I don't know. Doesn't interest me, but, like I say, if that's more popular, knock yourself out. It just ain't for me.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I think 3 classes 9.5 , 10.5 and 11.5 ci per pound 360ci max. Spec type head , 12.5comp max. No exotic valve train. 750 max lift cam. No custom grinds, off the shelf only. Crank trigger ok. Single 4bbl with 950cfm or dual 4bbl with 660cfm each max. No exotic carb mods. Cast manifolds with port matching only. 4 or 5spd trans using a clutch to shift. Single disc only.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Or, 9, 10, and 11 lbs. per cube. Max 360 fine. Min. wt. 3,000 lbs. I do know in my experience, 2 fours is a tenth quicker then my best single four. Love everything about your idea but the 12.5 compression. With these heads, and even 360 cubes, it's hard to get 13.5 to one. I know they'll do it, but really don't see an issue. Anyone willing to furnish the car? Come on guys. I need a little time. Look, if you blow it up, it's no skin off your ***. I'll just be out a motor. I'm not asking anyone to loan me a car, just be the test pilot for this.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

What happened to K.I.S.S.? Note the first sentence in this quote...
Think 1-CLASS...1-CARB....and stick-ONLY...is a good way to start...You already got
TONS of auto trannys out there...Nothing against 2x4 set-ups...but single is SIMPLE...

Give the class a chance to run and feel it out....I know we've been here before...it'll
feel a LOT like 1975-ish A/SM class....weight breaks came later....RIGHT??

Think the "stick" approach will make this way a bit unique or "different"...Having auto]
trans will make it seem like SS or Stk...at least to the casual spectator...IMHO...

btw...I'm NOT a player in all this...don't have a car or motor....but WOULD like to see
it HAPPEN....

Just sayin......

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I have ideas to make it real simple, real affordable, and really easy to police. And also, real entertaining, and real competitive. But, these are just my ideas, and don't expect everyone to agree.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

9 ,10 ,11? Too heavy...........you wanna see lots of broken parts?
8 ,9 lbs...need to keep the weights down . Fiberglass OK , but limited and must appear stock , retaining trim etc etc. Absolutely 2 -4s and head limitations. 4 or 5 speeds. Automatics? Really? In modified style cars?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Don't matter to me what pounds per cube you allow, but most SS cars are in the 3,000 range. Min. WT. And max. WT. Should cure that. Ran at 3,000 lbs. My whole life. And constant breakage is not a problem

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I didn't say constant.
What I was saying is that at 10 and 11 lbs you will encourage it. I assume you're implying the conversion from SS to this suggested class / classes when you referenced the 3000 lb point. They can start at 3000 and work downward. Ref. my suggestion of 8 and 9lbs. They'll run quicker ( more fun for driver and fans alike ) and be a little easier on parts ( as you know ).
To keep this stuff healthy the cars need to be quick.......read that spectator appeal. But I'm sure you already know THAT as well.
There is a resurrection of vintage gassers running all over the country.........I've seen some of them......They're cool as hell and quick too. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZs1Ujd7is"]Run Ragged -vs- Bone Shaker - YouTube[/ame]

No reason someone couldn't create a vintage Modified eliminator circuit?