Originally Posted by Tom Dolan (Post 567319)

Same as you, I don't have car. I'm just a keyboard jockey with an opinion, whats your excuse.

Originally Posted by Tom Dolan (Post 567313)

The only reason it was not in stock when it came out, there was no weight break for it to fit into. There was no FS/AA class. I don't know, but i don't think the 5.4 combo is better than a 5.2 just because the sc is bigger. I also don’t think most will agree when you say most will agree...duh. Its in the guide so I don’t know what your point is. This thread is about ford giving then taking it back for un know reasons. I wish someone from ford would come on here and tells us why, is that to much to ask.


5.2 Combo
bore 3.631 stroke 3.649
Piston- dome 12.5 CR
Cam- .590 lift
Throttle body- bigger than the 5.4
Valves- 2 -1.513 2 -1.285
RPM 9000 rpm+
supercharger 2.9 pulley size 3.25 inch
ram air front entrance supercharger

5.4 Combo
bore 3.553 stroke 4.166
piston- flat 10.5 cr
cam- lift .473
Throttle body smaller than the 5.2
valves- 2 -1.462 2 -1.265
rpm 8200+
supercharger 4.0 pulley size 4 inch
no ram air rear entrance super charger

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 549242)

LOL I believe Mike from Ford Performance is working for Roger Allen!

It's not right what he is doing to the '08,'10, and '12 Cobra Jet racers. Mike told all the older Cobra Jet owners that he was going to fight to be able to put the 2.9L Supercharger on to be competitive. When NHRA approved it, Mike turned around and said Ford is not interested! Even after he made all these promises through email.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567348)

I will be making several posts through out the day, then it will be up to Ken and the members of Class Racer to decide if they would like to have this thread locked up. It's going to start now...


Poking the bear came from Mike's mouth when I started pushing back.




that post was made 11-07-2017


A few short weeks after that Mike pulled Ford's 10 year sponsorship from Classracer.com. When I questioned Mike during our 3 hr meeting in Norwalk, OH a couple of weeks ago his exact words to me were he did not like the way he was being treated because of my post above. It showed he took it personal rather than thinking of what is good for Ford Motor Company and the members of Classracer.com. He was trying to hurt the site financially because of his personal feelings. Yet he continues to post about his stock/superstock association GLSSA. He receives financial gains from the GLSSA.


First off my apologies were given to Ken M. for losing his Ford sponsorship because of my post. I've known Ken since 1999 when he started writing for the biggest Ford Magazine on the planet (Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords.) He worked with MMFF for 15 years and in that time I've always known Ken to be one of Ford's biggest cheerleaders! Besides buying a new Ford vehicle every other year and racing an older Shelby Stocker for many years, he decided a few years back he was going to do what he needed to get in a new Cobra Jet. He worked out a deal with a fellow racer to purchase one of his 08' Cobra Jets and make payments on it so he could start racing stock while show casing Ford's best, the Cobra Jet. That is Ken's passion for Ford and because Mike got his personal feelings hurt he trampled on the dreams of a loyal, life long, Ford enthusiast. My guess is if Ken was racing a Mopar, classracer would still have a Ford Sponsorship.


These are nothing but the facts,


Jim D'Amore

Originally Posted by Rat Raceway (Post 567355)

Even if the engine is less capable it has a supercharger that is one liter bigger than anyone else...

If you want to talk about folks that took it in the rear, take a look at the N/A Shootout guys (All brands). I know of 5 other people as well as myself that built an N/A combo had it ready to race and they killed the class for blower only cars. Not to mention all the players that had established setups.

I promise Bo had 100's of Thousands into his combo. He said in the Cobra jet video (On YouTube) he got a new engine each race, from his builder a few days before the race.

Unfortunately we are like kids dealing with our parents, when racing. Just because they said it was "OK" for a split second but then changed their mind, we are stuck with the final decision. As upset as we get it’s their rules and it’s not changing unless they want it to.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567358)

Question, was it the manufacturers that turned away the N/A shoot out cars or was it NHRA?

Originally Posted by Rat Raceway (Post 567360)

I would say the Manufactures! It is a Manufactures class more than NHRA. NHRA is just hosting it.


If the Manufactures don't put it together, set the rules, it goes away. Pretty much what is happening here with the combo you are requesting. They don't want it, its out, case closed.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567650)

Okay Gentlemen,

I was only asking Mike D. what his reasoning was for pulling this out of the guide. Since it was in the guide for a period of time and it is still a Stock Eliminator legal combination. I first started asking for an answer, then I had to demand for an answer and the more I poked the bear, the more aggressive he got. The only people who have suffered from this is classracer.com because Mike pulled Ford's 10 year sponsorship due to my posts. Also the 08-12 Cobra Jet owners and myself have suffered. His negative comments and lies he said about me, some Ford enthusiasts took it as real information.

So I have been speaking with Mike's direct boss Mark since the national event in Norwalk. He is a stand up guy, straight forward but does not make a decision instantly. I like him, although he did give me a decision it took him about 3 weeks to make. He had spoke to a hand full of Ford racers that run the showdown class right now. The decision was to not put the 5.4L with 4.0L combination back in the guide for Showdown. He is interested in putting the 5.4L with a 2.9L in for the 2018 Cobra Jet build. This is what we originally asked for in the Showdown class. So a big thumbs up to Mark for that.


As for Mike D. I would still like him to come up here and tell all the Ford racers of his decisions. It would be good for everyone to know his stand point. But until then I am done. Again my apologies to classracer.com and also thank you Ken for keeping this an open forum.


Jim D'Amore

Originally Posted by bry-war (Post 567656)

Here's what comes to mind....

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 567662)

So, you went over Mike's head and got an answer. Other than Ken losing his Ford sponsorship what did you accomplish here?

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 567673)

Jim,
Didn't you learn that it was not Mike's decision and that he was simply following instruction from Ford? I also got the impression that you were approaching this issue from the perspective of business rather than a "loyal" Ford man and that you came out here to hammer Mike for a decision that he did not make.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567682)

Bruce,


Please do share your information. You say it was not Mike's decision. Tell us what you know.


What type of business decision was I making here? Cobra Jets are only 5% of our business, if that. I happen to own one and wanted to use that combination in my car.


As far as hammering Mike, I'm just telling it like it has happened. I did not realize you were included in our (Mike, Ford, and me) meetings, or our emails, or our phone conversations. If you have any real information on this please post it. This is an open forum.


Jim D'Amore

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 567690)

Jim,

Are you saying that Mike made the decisions on his own? Are you saying that you are not concerned about this issue from a business perspective? Are you saying that you haven't been bashing the heck out of Mike for doing his job?

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 567694)

I really don't think that any of this is as clear cut as Jim is explaining. I could be ill-informed, but it is my understanding that there are regular meetings attended by all three manufacturers representatives and the NHRA to discuss the Showdown. I think that they all understand that the series will only survive if the combinations have some kind of parity. That said, there is always the desire to out run each other. That is to be expected. It just can't get too out of hand.


Jim,

I feel that your choice to air your grievances on this forum are sad. These factory cars are a blessing for many of us that were too young to have raced the first time around. Your comments, even if valid, do nothing but hurt Fords efforts.

My personal dealings with Mike have been great.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567698)

Just out of curiosity... you own 3 COPO's, what type of dealings have you had with Mike?

Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 567713)

Jim how come you speak for yo kenny? This is his site why doesn't he call out mike if he's mad at him. Come on Kenny tell us whats on you mind.

Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 567722)

Only reason I brought up Kenny is you keep bring up him on this tread. I just though maybe others on this forum like myself would like to hear his story from him (if he is mad at fords also). You know its always better hearing it from the person direct.

I also remember you helping at Indy a few years back it was very appreciated and your very good at tuning these new eng combos.

Also if your going to make comments like Mike receives financial gains from the GLSSA you should ask one of the 8-10 other guys that help put on these events before you make any comments like that. Because no one who helps put these races on receives any money, its all given back to the racers. By the way $2500 to Win $1200 to runner up Stk/SS combo this weekend at Stanton MI for anyone interested. Pretty hard for anyone putting on a stk/ss race to make money with payouts like that.

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 567730)

Just out of curiosity because I haven't looked at the Showdown rules, but what would it have hurt to leave this combo in guide? Can there only be one combo in the guide for the Showdown class?

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 567730)

Just out of curiosity because I haven't looked at the Showdown rules, but what would it have hurt to leave this combo in guide? Can there only be one combo in the guide for the Showdown class?

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567732)

No each manufacturer has several combinations. I believe Ford has 6, GM has 6 and I think Mopar has 2. There are no rules on engine combination right now. They are saying for 2019 whatever motors we have been running in the past couple years will be frozen. By that I mean they will not be adding any more new combinations. This is what I've heard, it's only hear say. That's why it's of the utmost importance for me to get this Stock Eliminator legal combination approved for showdown.


Jim D'Amore

Originally Posted by HR9121 (Post 567737)

As they say there's always two sides to every story but I do find it odd that you go through the trouble toget something approved then have them remove it.

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 567751)

My understanding is that all parties agreed to limiting the blower size. The 4.0L blower is still in the guide for S/SS. It just isn't legal for the Showdown. The Showdown rules have changed several times since the birth of the class.

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 567751)

My understanding is that all parties agreed to limiting the blower size. The 4.0L blower is still in the guide for S/SS. It just isn't legal for the Showdown. The Showdown rules have changed several times since the birth of the class.

Originally Posted by troublemaker427 (Post 567752)

Just curious as a fan of the FSS class how have the rules changed?

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 567751)

My understanding is that all parties agreed to limiting the blower size. The 4.0L blower is still in the guide for S/SS. It just isn't legal for the Showdown. The Showdown rules have changed several times since the birth of the class.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore (Post 567762)

Gump,


The 4.0L is legal for Showdown according to NHRA, they actually approved the 4.0L combination. As long as Ford is willing to put it into the showdown guide. As for a common supercharger I even told Mike D. lets take the 4.0L off and exchange it for a 2.9L. His answer was still no.


Lets get to the facts here...the 4.0L supercharger with the 4.00" pulley on it will spin 6,000 RPM slower at 8,500 engine RPM. The 4.0L supercharger is also a rear entry requiring 2 90* turns before the air hits the impellers. The 4.0L takes 32 more HP to turn it than a 2.9L. It only produces on the 5.4L engine right around 20-21 psi boost. Compared to the 2.9L's that make 26-28 psi. Due to its new Gen 3 rotor design and the front entry feed. Here is the big fact Gentlemen. The 5.4L set to NHRA's max allowed bore, compared to GM and Mopar's max allowed bore we are 30 cubic inches less than COPO and 34 cubic inches less than MOPAR. So even if we had the same amount of boost the with the 4.0L we would still be at a disadvantage with the 5.4L because of cubic inch. We would still be bringing a knife to a gun fight but it's still better than what we currently have in the 08,10, and 12 CJ's.


Jim D'Amore