Re: Connecting Highway
 

Hi cammer, got your pm. Call me at 646 286 3030 before 5 pm.

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that pic gives me goose bumps. absolutely the best hooking track,lol, around.

there it is 100 ft. out. that must be the SK Dart. I'd love to see some more pics of that car. From what they tell me, they had an AMX next to race after selling that. Maybe the one from Westbury Rambler AMC. I will ask next week.

I'm a lot younger than most here probably at 45, but the memories of my era of frequenting there remain for me. We would back our hoopty up into the bush and wait, see many flat beds come and shut the road, warm ups, dry hop wheelies, man it was the best. We raced too but in the slow classes. Airport diner till sunrise sometimes to see a run. Then off to work,lol. there were literally flatbeds and trailers all over for a while then. I do prefer the big cars and mid sizes as opposed to the mustang era we are in now.

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Yep, sure did.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4233/skspeed01.jpg

Ditto!

M68

P.S. They're still in business: http://www.skspeed.com/

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S&K Speed had something to do with this Dart? That's the same shop the Mutt Bros purchased their '68 SS/B Dart from.
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/u...roRacers-2.jpg

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cammer427,
I do not think the Dart in that photo is the S & K Hemi Dart.
That looks like the 69' Dart, which was originally a 383 4-speed.
It has the GTS/Swinger hood.
A 440 was put in the car. 69' Darts (big-blocks) came equipped with a
383 (4 speed or automatic), or M-Code 440's with an automatic only.
Also, the rear in the car was from a wider B-Body (notice how wide
the axle sticks out).
Tell-tale sign,,, 'traction bars'. The Mopar guys all had Super/Stock
springs. Traction bars on an A-Body Mopar with a big-block would be
useless!!
More on the S & K/Mutt Brothers Dart..
Paul

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Sorry, I just meant the Mutt Bros purchased their Dart from S&K, but I know the one in the photo isn't the same machine :)

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We put Froggies car together with the Dart in mind. We ran it against a few other cars in the previous month. One was a 66 or 67 silver dodge charger. That took off and didn't pay up. Thats when Heavy and crew got involved. And got us the money the next week.
If I remember right the Dart had a small block and I know it was a 4 speed. It was quick and had made a lot of money on the street.
I believe that race was heads up. I remember telling Froggy to make sure the Dart left (when 2 cars pass the starter it was a race). To make sure we didn't show what we were capable of. He almost waited too long. There was a tape recorder (early data logger) in the Dart And you didn't hear Froggy till the very end of the race.

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It blows my mind how serious this whole business was. Art, did you and Heavy have a lot to do with each other? You mention him backing you guys a lot of times (putting up money). Did you approach Heavy about the guy in the silver Charger, or did he just find out and decide to get you guys the money back.

Even though the competition was pretty fierce and there could be a lot of bickering back and forth setting up a race, it sure seems there was a good level of respect amongst the parties involved. It seems most of you guys were real class acts, real professionals. :cool:

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Did Froggy own the Belvedere? Was it really a real A990 car, originally?

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We only knew Heavy from racing. He put up a lot of the side money. We could run someone for $1000 but there may have been $20,000 in side money. He never put up our part of the money. He and his guys got our money for principle/honor. We didn't really know him good enough to ask. We were working on getting to the guys that welched but Heavy beat us to it. And he was a lot more convincing.
With the arguing about spots etc. you would swear a race riot was going to breakout at any second. I can't count how many times I was called a "hymie jew boy" I called them things I won't repeat. And non of us were Jewish. LOL
But it was all business and nobody took it personal.

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The car body belonged to Froggy. It was just a plain jane street car no aluminum anything.
I'm pretty sure we had the hemi in Froggies car, So it would have been similar to a SS/BA car of those days. but I can't remember exactly. I killed a lot of "brain" cells back them.
I think I had the Dart figured for 11.0's and I figured the plymouth was good for 10.60's FineSpline was I about right on the Dart?

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cammer427,
I misunderstood. On the S & K Dart.
S & K (Bryan Higgins & Ernie Krieg) had the Dart through the 68' season. I believe it was at the 68' Springnationals (June at E-Town),
Super/Stock Magazine Nationals (July at New York National) and Indy Nationals (September). Not sure which event, but I think they blew the engine and sent a rod-bolt through the front bumper??? I have to check my data file. It was sold at the end of 68' or early 69', to the Mutt Brothers with a factory Race Hemi replacement engine.
The AMX came in early 69' (March, I think).
PC

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Thanks for the details on the Dart - I've always wondered when they (the Mutt Bros) purchased the car from S&K. Do you know Bryan or Ernie? If you have any more details you could share about the car, please feel free. I'd love to learn more about it.

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Dad worked at Island Porting from '69-'73(approx). He'd come home from his full time job and head over to the shop and port heads from 6 till closing. Dads name is Carl also.

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Thanks for correcting me and explaining the Dart pictured.

Westbury Rambler aka now Westbury Chrysler/Jeep now has a replacement AMX like the one SK and them built in 69. They got it in the early/mid 90's. Don't know anything else now about it.

Brian at SK is building a recreation of their Hemi Dart, I wish him only the best w that project. I will ask him for more details on the original car when I go out there this week.
Ernies son is doing machine work for me now.

Best news is NYC is "still Alive and well". Stang beat a Malibu last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1nTShAdz8I

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cammer427,
S & K got one of the original (84) Hemi Darts. The first major race for the
SS/B or SS/BA cars was at the 68' Springnationals. The S & K Dart was definitely at the 68' (July 68) Super/Stock Magazine Nationals. And I
do believe the Nationals (at Indy, Labor Day). They ran the car the whole season. American Motors decided to get into the S/S fray in December
68', and stole Shirley Shahan ('Drag-On-Lady') from Mopar, as well as a few other Mopar-backed racers. The first AMX S/S cars were running in
late-March or April. Not sure the exact time the Mutt Brothers got the car,
but I think early 69', as S & K was involved with AMX project, at about the same time.
The S & K car, if I can remember (long time ago) was running right around 10.95 (3/10's off the record). J & B Automotive (Brooklyn)
sponsored the SS/B car. Ran in the 10.90's when I saw it at the track.
Not completely sure on the length of service of the Dart in the hands of the Mutt Brothers.
Paul

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Would you know if Brooklyn Heavy's 1968 Dodge Dart one of the '68 S/S Hemi Darts? I had a small inkling that he may have bought the Mutt Bros' Dart but he could just as well have gotten a different one. And of course, there's the J&B sponsored '68 Barracuda of the Mutt Bros. Do you have any information on that car, Paul? It also has an "S&K Speed" decal on the quarter panel. I believe I read the Mutt Bros owned the Dart and Barracuda simultaneously before selling one or both of them.
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/u...spotlight2.jpg

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Another shot of Froggy's '65 Belvedere in another magazine at the time. Art, that looks suspiciously like a silver '66-'67 Dodge Charger - is that the same car?

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3...owerfeb743.jpg

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That is the one. And thats the race. I believe it came from Redhook.

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cammer427,
The 'Brooklyn Heavy' 68' Dart sure looks right. But if I recall, a
Tunnel-Ram was added. The rear wheels are properly set, indicating that it had a proper Dana rear (for the A-Body).
Joe Jill of Speedwin Automotive (Hauppauge, L.I) who prepped the
'Brookyln Heavy' Dart also had a 68' Hemi Dart (SS/BA car).
The 69' Cuda (not an original 68' Factory Hemi) Hemi was
Sox & Martins A/MP car, that Billy 'The Kid' Stepp drove.

As crazy as this sounds, only 3 (original purchased) 68' Hemi Darts ended up in the Long Island and Southern New York area.
Charlie Castaldo (4-speed), Scarsdale, NY
S & K Speed Shop (4-speed), West Babylon, L.I., NY
Joe Jill 'Speedwin' (Automatic), Hauppauge, L.I., NY
* One other that came through the area, but not accounted for
Cy Greene Dodge, Manhassett.
Paul

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I don't know if the car was originally delivered to long island but george baptiste bought his 68 cuda in the jamaica,queens area.

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George told me a funny story about how he had to hide the fact from his wife that it was a race car.He had it in a garage near where he lived in Jamaica (Queens) and told her it was a regular street driven car.Still has the car.Both he and it are in retirement.

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68' Hemi Cuda's,
No one seems to know for sure if a true original Factory 68' Hemi Cuda
was delivered to any dealer and/or racer in Long Island or Southern New York in the spring of 68'.
Some mention of Brodlieb Motors in Woodmere, L.I. of getting one, and Idlewild Motors in Springfield Gardens, also getting one. No one has any photos of these cars.
The damn Chrysler Regional Reps kept poor records. If you were close friends with a Regional Rep, you could fork over some _ _ _ _ :rolleyes:, and
get a 68' Hemi A-Body/A-Bomb for $4200. Racers price, but you had to go out to Ferndale, Michigan to pick up the car.
paul

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And just like the dp cars thathave an engine but have no drivetrain, even though the 68 cars were complete ,you dare not try to race it until you went over" everything. "

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Hi Ed, were you there at the E town Nats that misty Friday night when George almost hit the wall. Knowing how unmolested that one owner car is could anybody guess what it's worth, Paul.

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FINESPLINE,
Absolutely correct. They were not 10.60 machines 'right out of the box'
like some people think.
Engines came through with Heavy-slug 12.5-1 pistons, and the stock Hemi .475 solid lifter camshaft. If you raced the car in 68' the way it came out the factory, probably 11.60's.
Heard some of the cars left Hurst with blown engines too!.
Paul

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There was another Hemi Dart in the NYC area. Aording the "Barracuda/Dart authentication Guide" one was sold to "Manhattan Speed Shop". I don't remember such a place but in the mid-90s I built a clone car, sold it & according to the buyer Buddy Martin, Don Garlits & someone else thought it was that car. Trust me, it wasn't. The point is there were/are more mysteries floating around about these cars & the fact NYC streetracers used them fogs the stories even more & only increases their mystique and what went on back then.

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So it's quite possible it was a true BO29, but no-one's sure if it was the Mutt bros ex-car?

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Manhattan Speed Shop was for real.The owner was Joey Doto (sp?) and his father
owned it.They had two stores.The one on W. Bway was mostly speed stuff and the one on lower 3rd Ave. was retail and dealer/repair shop supply.They did machine work too.A lot of cars racing on Long Island came out of there.The W.Bway store closed many moons ago.

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cammer427,
From your Hemi Helper friend, Paul\
68' Hemi Dart; Code; LO23
68' Hemi Cuda; Code BO29
Good questions, and great thread going on here. The 'Brookyln Heavy'
Dart sure looks like the Mutt Brothers car. In 1971, lots of Hemi guys were going to the Tunnel-Ram and the monster Holley's, and abandoning the cross-ram with the 770 Holleys. Better atomization. So it is possible that the 'Heavy' car is one-and-the-same.

On Manhattan Speed Shop. Yes it did exist and they did sponsor a
72' D/G Vega (owned by R & R Construction) around 74'/75'.
The other location; Manhattan Speed & Power Equipment was located on 232 West Broadway.
As for other sponsors, Manhattan Speed Shop sponsored a Hemi Dart,
in 69' ?. I have a photo of their Dart versus Charlie Castaldo's SS/BA
car (his second Dart).

Amazingly, the only original Hemi Cuda that ended up in New York
(original factory order) was Ed Miller (SS/B) out of East Syracuse.
Paul,,,more to share

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Joe Jill's Dart was origianlly called "Ram Rod" which was owned by Joe Armor.
Also there was a Cuda SS/A bought by George Baptiste, he bought it from a private owner somewhere in Brooklyn after some kid told him about the car sitting in a garage. Talked to George at Indy 1994.
BTW, Manhatten Speed used to have a hell of a Cristmas party! Food, drinking and naked women. If you wanted a BJ, all you had to do is have it done in front of everyone as a show. LOL!

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Casey,
How do I get invited to that party?
I'll bring the chips.;)
Can I use the line from Sheriff Bart in 'Blazing Saddles'.
'Excuse me, while I whip this out'.

On the Joe Jill "Speedwin Automotive' SS/BA car.
They had a shop in Hauppauge, L.I., and off Jericho Turnpike in
Mineola. That car came through Ebbets Field Dodge, in Brooklyn.

Paul

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Worse than almost hitting the "wall" was that George cut-up an un-cut, original factory 'Cuda for SS/A! I can see someone doing that in the 1970s and to a lesser extent in the 1980s--but the early 1990s? Don't get me wrong, I like George, he's a very personable fellow. Why, oh why, didn't he cut-up a wedge or six-cylinder A-body???

George told me and a buddy (circa 1991) during a Mopars at Englishtown event about the car. So intact and original it was, he said Chrysler offered him $250,000 for it (for their museum) but he declined; so he definitely knew what the car was worth before the transformation began.

Oh well, it's his car...:(

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/465...gebaptiste.jpg

M68

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Thanks for the correction, Paul. I must have been having a brain fart at the time...

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Mmhmm, I'd be saying that through gritted-teeth, too.

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I know a lot of famous street racers from NY/NJ ended up buying famous race cars to race professionally themselves, but I'm not sure how many of these cars actually saw time on the street. I'm fairly certain Tab Talmadge's '65 A/FX 427 SOHC Mustang he purchased from Dyno Don saw a lot of big money street action. Other cars that may have been raced on the street during the early-mid-'70s: Levi Holmes purchased Bill Blanding's 1969 "MiMi" Camaro, Tab Talmadge purchased Dyno Don's 1965 A/FX 427 SOHC Mustang, James & Will Smallwood purchased two ex-Sox & Martin cars (were they just "shop" cars, built and sold by S&M, I wonder?) which were a 1969 "Notchback" car and a '72 Barracuda, Willie "Cam Rod" (sp?) Campbell purchased Hubert Platt's (Platt & Yates) '70 Maverick, "Fast Earl" Mitchell's '69 Camaro was possibly owned by Wally Booth before he purchased it (the engine was at least Booth-Arons-built).

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You have to understand & remember that "street" car was a VERY broad term. These high-dollar races were usually set-up during the week & come the week-end, the car flat-towed to the location & ran. If the race was near one's shop, so much the better or if you were smart you'd set-up the race, tow several miles from the spot, then unhook your car&race your "street" car against a guys track car, often asking for a spot since "all" you had was a street car. Some guys "scouted" the drive-ins with their tow-car, set up a race then go get the car.
Now slower guys like me or a few others mentioned here did have legitimate dual-purpose cars and we didn't try running guys like "Heavy" or the others. We knew what they had & couldn't afford their kind of race. But other's like my friend who owned the speed shop DID have the bucks & would run for a grand or so with "backers" driving the bet up to five figures or so. But the average guy would only run for what his paycheck could safely tolerate.

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Hemicop,
Also, some street-racers would buy a race-ready track car, sand off the lettering and re-paint it with primer or paint it badly (usually black).
Pull off the mag wheels, and pop on steel wheels. And almost always, pull off the front bumper.
The goal, to make it look 'ratty'. Bait your opponent for cash.
THEN BLOW HIS DOORS OFF!
I think the term used for those cars was 'suckermobiles' or 'sucker-cars'
Paul

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I've heard the term "sucker car" or more popularly "sleeper" and even the true racecars could draw someone in. My friend's '66 Impala wasa just an ugly version of Nick Scavo's old Impala but without the juice. I have a similiar motor in my garage I got from Schafiroff I'm hoping to use in my next project. "Sleepers" aren't popular here and I'm sure I can get it into the 10s (for here that's pretty quick.

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Some Sleepers,
Usually, a 57' Chevy, with different colored doors, dented fenders, body-rot on the rear quarters, missing the bumpers, hanging head-liner.
Equipped with a tricked up 331c.i., Mondello Heads, and few other Goodies. Probably a 12.30 car.
PC