CLASS RACER FORUM

CLASS RACER FORUM (https://classracer.com/classforum/index.php)
-   Stock and Super Stock (https://classracer.com/classforum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   If an advocate could be found - what would you say? (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=72235)

Andys dad 02-19-2019 12:39 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fastlane (Post 582892)
It is pretty hard to post an opinion or suggestion with out getting caught up between the feuding sides in this thread. I'm out

Yes - why speak up if you disagree with any point of view

Do not support the unpopular on here

This post will likely draw fire even though you probably can't tell what I am saying

Some can not resist antagonizing others

I have tried to stay off this site but I hate unnecessary abuse by the righteous

As Popeye said "that's all I can stands - I can't stands no more"

Especially when they seem like ..... well you know

Now to quote Rodney King "can't we all just get along" and support the new sportsman messiah


Ron

Frank Castros 02-19-2019 08:20 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Class Racer.com for me is a happy outlet from daily life and all opinions about sportsmen racing are important and respected, however the divisive comments made by some are inappropriate and unnecessary.

Dan Fletcher 02-19-2019 10:12 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Not attempting to be self serving, but this one was put directly in front of me this week. If an event is under quota, why in the 'eff does one have to withdraw by Monday at 3pm est? I realize NHRA might have to absorb the cost of a window sticker that goes unused, but it certainly would be nice to have an extra couple days to watch the weather evolve. Enhance me for $10 if you have too, lmfao.

Clearly, one should be able to enter as well, again, if under quota. I realize NHRA might not have time to produce the credentials package one is issued, but I'd like to think we could find a way to work around that overwhelming obstacle.

1320racer 02-19-2019 11:06 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Dan, I would be interested in your take on the complaints mentioned in this and the other threads and call for a sportsman advocate. If not wanting to state your position here, feel free to PM me, your comments will remain private.

wagonboy 02-19-2019 11:20 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
so if it is about time and space- I think it would be a good idea to let more cars in another class if another does not fill up. Super stock is sometimes light. Why not open S/C or S/G for the amount of cars that another is low.

Same pit space, same track time.

I'm sure there could be a system put in place to do that, and it would be appreciated by racers who are trying to get in.

HR9121 02-19-2019 11:53 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Ed I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest some of what I would think would be Dan's concerns. From the point of view from someone that made their living as a professional sportsman racer I would think the fact that he can't earn half of what he did 20 years ago for winning a race would be the top of the list!

1320racer 02-19-2019 11:58 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
With all due respect, I'm only interested in hearing from Dan directly. There are several others who's opinion of NHRA Sportsman Racing I'd be interested in hearing as well. David Rampy for example.

HR9121 02-19-2019 12:07 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
I have no problem with that Ed I would be interested as well but I bet I'm right lol. For me I'm not on the sky is falling side but there are some things I think could be improved for everyone's benefit.

1320racer 02-19-2019 12:34 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
as I stated in one of these threads, NOTHING is perfect except for my wife:D. I'm sure if you polled every NHRA Sportsman Racer in the lanes at every event as to things they'd like to see changed, you'd get 100s of suggestions if not more and the responses would vary depending on the class they compete in. I agree with Dan's comment below, as my son was not allowed to enter the MG National event on Tuesday morning despite 9 withdrawals IIRC due to the weather on Tuesday that didn't show on Monday when he tried to get in.

I'm pretty sure most would like to race for more $ but they don't want to pay more to enter but raise the quotas to accommodate those not willing to put the time, expense and work in at divisional events to accumulate the necessary grade points to run in the Pro's show, I say NO!!

What would I like see changed?...I'd like to see the NHRA lower the index of throttle stop classes by 1 second. A high 8 second dragster was fast in the early 90s but in 2019, almost unheard of and most are killing at least 1 second and many far more in a class that is dominated by 7 second dragsters. Same can be said for SG and S/ST, most there too are killing at least 1 second.

I'm interested in somebody listing their opinion on the improvements that would be beneficial to EVERY NHRA Sportsman Racer.

Julie Jordan 02-19-2019 01:02 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 582925)
as I stated in one of these threads, NOTHING is perfect except for my wife:D. I'm sure if you polled every NHRA Sportsman Racer in the lanes at every event as to things they'd like to see changed, you'd get 100s of suggestions if not more and the responses would vary depending on the class they compete in. I agree with Dan's comment below, as my son was not allowed to enter the MG National event on Tuesday morning despite 9 withdrawals IIRC due to the weather on Tuesday that didn't show on Monday when he tried to get in.

I'm pretty sure most would like to race for more $ but they don't want to pay more to enter but raise the quotas to accommodate those not willing to put the time, expense and work in at divisional events to accumulate the necessary grade points to run in the Pro's show, I say NO!!

What would I like see changed?...I'd like to see the NHRA lower the index of throttle stop classes by 1 second. A high 8 second dragster was fast in the early 90s but in 2019, almost unheard of and most are killing at least 1 second and many far more in a class that is dominated by 7 second dragsters. Same can be said for SG and S/ST, most there too are killing at least 1 second.

I'm interested in somebody listing their opinion on the improvements that would be beneficial to EVERY NHRA Sportsman Racer.

Many of us do put in the time and expense to get grade points. We drove over 6000 miles last year to get 5 grade points and probably for nothing as the quota for the Vegas national was filled at 6. Some divisions have less tracks/more geography than others. Reducing the quotas the way they have has been a real deterrent to many racers in the larger geographical areas. I'm self-employed and, except for tax season, have a lot of flexibility in my schedule. My son is an attorney with the Public Defender's office. He races using his vacation time. The more travel days we have the less days he gets to allocate to race. I would like to see the quotas raised again and/or give priority to racers in the division the national event is being held.

Lenny5160 02-19-2019 01:10 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 582925)
I'd like to see the NHRA lower the index of throttle stop classes by 1 second. A high 8 second dragster was fast in the early 90s but in 2019, almost unheard of and most are killing at least 1 second and many far more in a class that is dominated by 7 second dragsters. Same can be said for SG and S/ST, most there too are killing at least 1 second.

I'm interested in somebody listing their opinion on the improvements that would be beneficial to EVERY NHRA Sportsman Racer.

Not that I've agreed with everything else you have said, but I definitely do not agree with this. That is just needlessly pushing out the racers, however few they are, that can't run 1 second quicker than the current indexes.

I can't think of a single benefit from doing it. It wouldn't be any more fun for me in the cockpit to go 7.90, and spectators aren't a concern nor would they be able to tell the difference.

I definitely don't go NHRA racing for the money, but a round 5 semi-final loss at a LODRS race not breaking even on the entry fee is pretty ridiculous. There's a balance somewhere.

I actually kind of like the idea of having to qualify for your spot on the ladder in the Super classes. That would be fun! (Until I failed to qualify, of course)

GTX JOHN 02-19-2019 02:29 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
So Far............................................... ..........

ONE and ONLY one person has contact me to communicate
with the NHRA Sportsman Racing Manager (Charles Myers)
about any of these issues!


John Irving

Bruce Noland 02-19-2019 02:38 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN (Post 582943)
So Far............................................... ..........

ONE and ONLY one person has contact me to communicate
with the NHRA Sportsman Racing Manager (Charles Myers)
about any of these issues!


John Irving

I'm not surprised at all. Talking to nhra employees has not provided much in the way of results.

Barry Polley 02-19-2019 03:03 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
After looking at some of the replies here.... I believe the Chuck Rayburn rule applies..

GTX JOHN 02-19-2019 03:06 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Charles is my friend and I can vouch for his sincerity.......
He WILL do whatever he is able to accomplish for Sportsman
(be it large or small).

Exactly what can it hurt to let him know our feelings and wishes?

OR

Perhaps I have missed the point of the intended original purpose
of this thread in the first place.........Maybe it is just a p*ssing at the
Moon contest!


John Irving

Mike Pearson 02-19-2019 03:39 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 582925)
as I stated in one of these threads, NOTHING is perfect except for my wife:D. I'm sure if you polled every NHRA Sportsman Racer in the lanes at every event as to things they'd like to see changed, you'd get 100s of suggestions if not more and the responses would vary depending on the class they compete in. I agree with Dan's comment below, as my son was not allowed to enter the MG National event on Tuesday morning despite 9 withdrawals IIRC due to the weather on Tuesday that didn't show on Monday when he tried to get in.

I'm pretty sure most would like to race for more $ but they don't want to pay more to enter but raise the quotas to accommodate those not willing to put the time, expense and work in at divisional events to accumulate the necessary grade points to run in the Pro's show, I say NO!!

What would I like see changed?...I'd like to see the NHRA lower the index of throttle stop classes by 1 second. A high 8 second dragster was fast in the early 90s but in 2019, almost unheard of and most are killing at least 1 second and many far more in a class that is dominated by 7 second dragsters. Same can be said for SG and S/ST, most there too are killing at least 1 second.

I'm interested in somebody listing their opinion on the improvements that would be beneficial to EVERY NHRA Sportsman Racer.

I agree that the .90 indexes should be lowered. Maybe not a full second but at least .50. that would put them on the stop for less time and the big bog at the starting line would not be so noticeable and seem like more of a heads up class. The ship has sailed on those classes as far as being a heads up category in the present format.
One thing that would be beneficial to all sportsman racers that want to attend some national events would be to give some preferential treatment to the home division racers. I too traveled plenty of miles and burned a lot of diesel to get 6 grade points and could not get in the Gators that is less than 200 miles from the house. It just does not make sense to have racers traveling thousands of miles to take the place of racers that are in the home division and have run every divisional race that is offered in their home division. You can only claim points from a limited amount of national events any way. Another thing is the provisional spots should never be counted toward the quota. we would all like to see the quota raised to allow more racers to participate and also there would be more heads up runs and more cars for class eliminations at the races that they do run class.

Bruce Noland 02-19-2019 04:01 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN (Post 582947)
Charles is my friend and I can vouch for his sincerity.......
He WILL do whatever he is able to accomplish for Sportsman
(be it large or small).

Exactly what can it hurt to let him know our feelings and wishes?

OR

Perhaps I have missed the point of the intended original purpose
of this thread in the first place.........Maybe it is just a p*ssing at the
Moon contest!


John Irving

I don't think it would hurt to talk to your friend but you must realize we've been down that road before and I wish him great success. The purpose of this thread is not to offer thoughts directly to nhra but to an interested sponsor/advocate who has a serious investment in Sportsman racing.

Jim Caughlin 02-19-2019 11:28 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTX JOHN (Post 582947)
Charles is my friend and I can vouch for his sincerity.......
He WILL do whatever he is able to accomplish for Sportsman
(be it large or small).

Exactly what can it hurt to let him know our feelings and wishes?

OR

Perhaps I have missed the point of the intended original purpose
of this thread in the first place.........Maybe it is just a p*ssing at the
Moon contest!


John Irving

As I stated earlier on this thread, we went through this whole routine before where Len Imbrogno who was going to be the NHRA intermediary/advocate for the sportsman racers. I talked to him more than once during his tenure, personally I think he was a pretty good guy and believed that he could make a difference. I can't speak for him and why he resigned but I've got a good guess. Good luck to the new guy, might want to give Len a call some time and find out what you're in for...

Jim Caughlin
SS6019

Dan Fletcher 02-20-2019 09:20 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
I could be wrong, but I understand the "new guy" has already decided to resign after an extremely brief tenure...

Mike Jones 02-20-2019 09:36 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
wow!!

CMcAllister 02-20-2019 10:01 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 582945)
I'm not surprised at all. Talking to nhra employees has not provided much in the way of results.

I hate to be a pessimist (realist), but I'm afraid this is how it is. The Company makes decisions, based on it's own idea of what's in it's best interests, secure in the belief that it knows better than anyone. Any solicitation of opinions is just lip service.

When the top pro stars of the sport get ignored when they have a concern or suggestion, why would anyone reading this expect that anything they have to say matters.

Billy Nees 02-20-2019 10:11 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CMcAllister (Post 583003)
I hate to be a pessimist (realist), but I'm afraid this is how it is. The Company makes decisions, based on it's own idea of what's in it's best interests, secure in the belief that it knows better than anyone. Any solicitation of opinions is just lip service.

When the top pro stars of the sport get ignored when they have a concern or suggestion, why would anyone reading this expect that anything they have to say matters.

I can't hit the "like" button because I don't "like" it. But I do "agree" with it.

Bruce Noland 02-20-2019 11:35 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 583006)
I can't hit the "like" button because I don't "like" it. But I do "agree" with it.

Agree that trying to make a case for increasing quotas before the nhra is a waste of time. But nhra has shown over the years that it mostly listens to money. That's why we need to get the word out to the major sponsors. nhra will never be able to get rid of all Sportsman Racers and legitimately hold on to it's not for profit status. But they can continue to whittle down the National event quotas to the point that it chases off most of the racers. Then throw up their hands and say " what the hey they wondered off."

Sportsman Racers are a financially robust group and have the where-with-all to fill races with quotas of 90 cars per Category at most National Events. Nothing is easy when dealing with the nhra (even for the Pros) but I don't think it would be impossible to think that a major sponsor could require a certain number of Sportsman Racers be admitted to any event they sponsor. Not all Sponsors are created equal and some may have no interest in working with us but at least one wants to hear us out.

SS/1230 02-20-2019 12:47 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 582450)
Somebody please enlighten me to these alleged important issues and the implied failing health of NHRA Sportsman Racing.

I'm not entirely sure how the issues aren't obvious. Contingency for one has become a joke. Even if you do win, you have to fight for every penny. That's only if the company doesn't create a loophole (i.e Weld racing rims creating a "purchase in the last 3 years" rule. Who the hell buys rims every 3 years). How about the lack of payout for divisional and national level? Entry fees continue to go up, yet the pay outs go down.The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event. Also, at the divisional level, they pay $250 for semi-final loss in a 7 round race in super stock. That's a joke, when it cost $225 for my wife and I to get in. What about all the merchandise and promo stuff racers used to get at the gates of a National event? If anyone still has their blue Powerade cooler they'll know what I'm saying. (As an example) I remember getting that cooler full with random stuff. That was when National Event were $210, and if you won or R/U Valvoline would pay you at the track for every sticker without question. Now you win less $, can't get paid from contingency, and it cost $370 to get into a national event. I don't know how any of this can show how NHRA is treating sportsman racers the way they should. I think we're the back bone of NHRA, the passion of this sport, and we get treated the worst. How many racers are under 35 that are able to pay and race on their own budget without a 1st generation paying the way? I'd say less that 2%. They are making it impossible to attract new young blood and for the current ones survive. When the older generation of racers retire, what generation will continue to make the sportsman ranks grow? No such thing as racing on a budget anymore. They turned it into a rich mans sport, and they wonder why car counts are down... their solution, "lets just lower qoutas then, problem solved..."

Carguy49 02-20-2019 01:08 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
I remember a story of a west coast racer having so much stuff when he returned from Indy years ago he was glad that he raced a station wagon so it would all fit. Times certainly have changed.

Lenny5160 02-20-2019 01:45 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583024)
The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event.

All-in-all a great post, but let's keep the complaints legitimate. I can't speak for past flyers but today, there is no 'semi-final money' in the purse listing.

I don't think they are turning away 10-20 entry fees so they can screw the semi-finalists out of $100 each.

1320racer 02-21-2019 08:16 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583024)
I'm not entirely sure how the issues aren't obvious. Contingency for one has become a joke. Even if you do win, you have to fight for every penny. That's only if the company doesn't create a loophole (i.e Weld racing rims creating a "purchase in the last 3 years" rule. Who the hell buys rims every 3 years).

How is that NHRA's fault or doing. The fact is many in the aftermarket performance industry no longer see the benefit to pay us for using their product, we are going to buy it regardless and it's no longer a marketing tool with internet websites and social media. As I stated in a previous post, not one company that I'm aware of has closed their doors after pulling out of the contingency program and I'll bet it has help most if not all's bottom line. That said, there are still companies that want to support racers and the NHRA and do.

Quote:

How about the lack of payout for divisional and national level? Entry fees continue to go up, yet the pay outs go down.The reason national events have been lowering quota lists is because it becomes a 6 round race. Meaning that if you get to the final 4 cars (semi-finals), and you lose, they only have to pay you 5th round loss money and not semi-final money. Which is less than if you were in the semi-final of a 7 round race, another $$ loophole. I've experience that first hand at a national event.
That's your assumption not fact.

Quote:

Also, at the divisional level, they pay $250 for semi-final loss in a 7 round race in super stock. That's a joke, when it cost $225 for my wife and I to get in.
it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game.

Quote:

What about all the merchandise and promo stuff racers used to get at the gates of a National event? If anyone still has their blue Powerade cooler they'll know what I'm saying. (As an example) I remember getting that cooler full with random stuff. That was when National Event were $210, and if you won or R/U Valvoline would pay you at the track for every sticker without question. Now you win less $, can't get paid from contingency, and it cost $370 to get into a national event.
refer back to my comments about contingency sponsors.


Quote:

I don't know how any of this can show how NHRA is treating sportsman racers the way they should. I think we're the back bone of NHRA, the passion of this sport, and we get treated the worst.
Your opinion. All I know is what I see with my own eyes. Divisionals with 300-400 cars on the property and National event quotas that are easily fill and some racers complaining they can't get in.;) That tells the NHRA they are doing it right!


Quote:

How many racers are under 35 that are able to pay and race on their own budget without a 1st generation paying the way? I'd say less that 2%. They are making it impossible to attract new young blood and for the current ones survive. When the older generation of racers retire, what generation will continue to make the sportsman ranks grow? No such thing as racing on a budget anymore. They turned it into a rich mans sport, and they wonder why car counts are down... their solution, "lets just lower qoutas then, problem solved..."
1. your assumption.
2. young men today 17-30 are not interested in cars no mind racing.
3. ALL racing is on life support and has been for decades.
4. Racing was always expensive. I couldn't afford to compete nor could my friends when we were younger. I started when I was 30. I'll also say the NHRA never had a marketing program to attract new racers and grow.
5. you want change? Get 100s of racers to boycott divisionals and national events. Good luck with that.
Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing. Enjoy it while you still can, I will.

SS/1230 02-21-2019 09:26 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
I understand your stance and your beliefs on some of these things. However (1320racer)....."How is that NHRA's fault or doing. The fact is many in the aftermarket performance industry no longer see the benefit to pay us for using their product, we are going to buy it regardless and it's no longer a marketing tool with internet websites and social media. As I stated in a previous post, not one company that I'm aware of has closed their doors after pulling out of the contingency program and I'll bet it has help most if not all's bottom line. That said, there are still companies that want to support racers and the NHRA and do." I personally dont care about the companies bottom line, I care about mine. We buy a product, we win, they pay us. You'd think it would be that easy. However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from. The goal is to get us to buy the products and if we win, they pay us *if it fits the stipulations*. And guess what, even if we buy the product, and its not within the limitations, NHRA and the company still get paid. Only person who doesn't is us. NHRA is making their money and could care less if we get ours. So they play a hand in that.... NHRA isn't innocent in that sense.

Next, you think that the quotas are my assumption, not fact. But its fact that I got to the semi-final (4 cars) at a national in a 6 round race, and won 5th round loss money. $100 or not, its still a way for them to cut payout... fact.

Next, "it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game", doesn't mean I have to like it, and I know a majority feel the same way I do even though they still play the game.

Next, when was the last time you saw 300-400 cars at EVERY divisional in D-1? for the exception of 2018, I think Virginia had less that 50 cars in SS each of the last 3 years prior to that. Epping doesn't draw many cars either (50's in SS).. The only track that drew the most cars every year was E-town, and obviously you cant race there anymore. 2018 @ Epping: 17 cars in SG, 35 in SC, 27 in SST, 12 in Comp, 52 in SS, and 92 in stock.. thats 235 cars if you're counting.

I'm going to continue to race because its what I love to do. Fortunately I'm 1 of few young men today who is 32 and who is interested in cars and appreciates what we do. But being someone who has been around racing their whole life, I cant help but notice the changes, doesn't mean I have to like them. "Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing.." That I can agree with.

1320racer 02-21-2019 09:40 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583070)
I personally dont care about the companies bottom line, I care about mine. We buy a product, we win, they pay us. You'd think it would be that easy. However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from. The goal is to get us to buy the products and if we win, they pay us *if it fits the stipulations*. And guess what, even if we buy the product, and its not within the limitations, NHRA and the company still get paid. Only person who doesn't is us. NHRA is making their money and could care less if we get ours. So they play a hand in that.... NHRA isn't innocent in that sense.

you know what the contingency sponsor's requirements are to collect before you put their decal on your car. If you don't that's on you. That said, I'll say again, it doesn't matter, we are buying their products regardless and none of them pay unless you get to the final which the majority of racers don't and never do.

Quote:

Next, you think that the quotas are my assumption, not fact. But its fact that I got to the semi-final (4 cars) at a national in a 6 round race, and won 5th round loss money. $100 or not, its still a way for them to cut payout... fact.
they are infact your assumption and the payout information is known before you enter.

Quote:

Next, "it is what it is, no one is forcing you to play the game", doesn't mean I have to like it, and I know a majority feel the same way I do even though they still play the game.
another assumption. If you're right and I'm wrong, go get hundreds of racers to boycott 1 divisional and 1 national event.;)

Quote:

Next, when was the last time you saw 300-400 cars at EVERY divisional in D-1? for the exception of 2018, I think Virginia had less that 50 cars in SS each of the last 3 years prior to that. Epping doesn't draw many cars either (50's in SS).. The only track that drew the most cars every year was E-town, and obviously you cant race there anymore. 2018 @ Epping: 17 cars in SG, 35 in SC, 27 in SST, 12 in Comp, 52 in SS, and 92 in stock.. thats 235 cars if you're counting.
There were over 300 cars at every divisional in D1 I attended last season which were all except Virginia and at most it rained some if not every day.

Quote:

I'm going to continue to race because its what I love to do. Fortunately I'm 1 of few young men today who is 32 and who is interested in cars and appreciates what we do. But being someone who has been around racing their whole life, I cant help but notice the changes, doesn't mean I have to like them. "Bottomline is the world changed, nothing is the same as it was least of which drag racing.." That I can agree with.
the decline in all of motorsports started when you were in diapers. Again, stop complaining and concerning yourself with who has the $ and who is getting paid and enjoy what we do while you still can. If $ is why you do this, quit and go bracket racing. THAT'S where the BIG $ is for racers.

SS/1230 02-21-2019 10:31 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
The decline in all of motorsports started when you were in diapers. Again, stop complaining and concerning yourself with who has the $ and who is getting paid and enjoy what we do while you still can. If $ is why you do this, quit and go bracket racing. THAT'S where the BIG $ is for racers.[/QUOTE]

Pretty clear I don't do it for the money..do any of us (other than the few full time sportsman)?

"There were over 300 cars at every divisional in D1 I attended last season which were all except Virginia and at most it rained some if not every day.".. I gave you Epping as well, and Virginia 3 years prior (not rain related). I specifically looked on DRC to prove my point.... **Epping 235 cars.**

I'm definitely not a boycott'er... and I don't push my opinions on other people. But I do talk to a lot of racers with the same feelings as me, that still show up to all 6 divisionals. So your point is made that I couldn't get 100 racers to boycott, but I could absolutely get you 100 racers (probably more) that are currently unhappy about the same things and think NHRA screws the sportsman.. is that a fair compromise? ;)

I see you're from NJ, try moving to Long Island and tell me you still want to go to 6 divisionals...ha

At least our chat is getting shorter with each thread lol...

Lenny5160 02-21-2019 11:23 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583070)
However, I get what you are saying here but you'd be crazy to think that the contingency sponsors and NHRA don't have some kind of contract that NHRA benefits from.

NHRA definitely has a hand in the contingency cookie jar, which has driven away companies that would otherwise participate. There are several companies that run independent contingency programs for this reason. I am sure (yes, Ed, I'm assuming; not fact) that other companies have just thrown up their hands and walked away from the idea.

I'm still baffled that you're upset about losing 5th round and 'only' getting 5th round loser money. "If the quotas were higher, I would have lost at 8 cars and still received 5th round loser money!"

1320racer 02-21-2019 11:50 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583074)
Pretty clear I don't do it for the money..do any of us (other than the few full time sportsman)?

I don't and my friends don't and that's my point. Sure it would be nice to race for more $, everyone wants more $ but the fact is we don't race for $ and unless you win or runner up most everyone is leaving the event with less in their wallet then they had days earlier when they paid to enter.

Quote:

I specifically looked on DRC to prove my point.... **Epping 235 cars.**
I didn't check but I was there and we won :) It was the last race in D1 and no surprise the car count was lower. Many aren't going to travel to the last race if they are not in the running to finish in the top 10.

Quote:

I'm definitely not a boycott'er... and I don't push my opinions on other people. But I do talk to a lot of racers with the same feelings as me, that still show up to all 6 divisionals. So your point is made that I couldn't get 100 racers to boycott, but I could absolutely get you 100 racers (probably more) that are currently unhappy about the same things and think NHRA screws the sportsman.. is that a fair compromise? ;)
I don't know how many are unhappy, it never comes up in conversation with my friends and competitors. It's not the reason I travel hundreds of miles and pay my $ and it's not their's either. But I'll say again to those that are unhappy, quit and start being happy, life is too short. I'm having a great time doing this with my son. Don't know how much longer he's going to want to do this. I take it one season at a time. Hell don't know how much longer I'll be here, none of us do.

Quote:

I see you're from NJ, try moving to Long Island and tell me you still want to go to 6 divisionals...ha
I would still go to all the divisionals and a few out of division as we did this past season, competing at Silver Dollar in Reynolds, Georgia and Rockingham Dragway, NC. BTW, I work in NYC, live in north jersey and all the D1 divisional races are 3-7 hours from my house.

Quote:

At least our chat is getting shorter with each thread lol...
seems to be.

SS/1230 02-21-2019 11:54 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny5160 (Post 583083)
NHRA definitely has a hand in the contingency cookie jar, which has driven away companies that would otherwise participate. There are several companies that run independent contingency programs for this reason. I am sure (yes, Ed, I'm assuming; not fact) that other companies have just thrown up their hands and walked away from the idea.

I'm still baffled that you're upset about losing 5th round and 'only' getting 5th round loser money. "If the quotas were higher, I would have lost at 8 cars and still received 5th round loser money!"

If you make it to the Semi in a 6 round race its 5th round loss money... not semi finalist. If you make it to the semi in a 7 round race its 6th round/Semi money (more $)... by creating smaller fields the payout is less, only thing that remains the same in winner and R/U.. its NHRA's version of nickle and dime'ing.

I wasn't upset... its the principle of making the quota 65 cars just so they can pay us less money. Yet when fields are smaller, the payouts are less and the entry remains the same.
*The max in SS is 80 cars, so it would never be an 8 round race at a National.

1320racer 02-21-2019 11:55 AM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583088)
I wasn't upset... its the principle of making the quota 65 cars just so they can pay us less money.

again, that's your assumption, not a fact.

SS/1230 02-21-2019 12:02 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
BTW, I work in NYC, live in north jersey and all the D1 divisional races are 3-7 hours from my house.[/QUOTE]

I meant towing... Working is one thing, you have to go to work, and I doubt you take your rig to the city everyday.. It normally takes me 3 hours with the trailer just to get to the Verrazzano Bridge from Oceanside (29 Miles).. lol Used to take me almost 4 hours to get to Englishtown on a Thursday.. and that was only 65 miles.. so I feel your pain, but in a different way.

SS/1230 02-21-2019 12:07 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 583089)
again, that's your assumption, not a fact.

Well doesn't seem like it... I won the 2014 Summernationals at E-town in SS and it was an 80 car field. every year following it was 65 cars until the track closed. And the year I won it started at 65, but D-1 begged to up the quota and they changed it the last week because racers were complaining they couldnt get in. Keystones too... doesn't seem like a fluke to me... that's all I'm trying to say.

No way to prove its a fact, NHRA would never admit to doing that.

1320racer 02-21-2019 12:08 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583092)
I meant towing... Working is one thing, you have to go to work, and I doubt you take your rig to the city everyday.. It normally takes me 3 hours with the trailer just to get to the Verrazzano Bridge from Oceanside (29 Miles).. lol Used to take me almost 4 hours to get to Englishtown on a Thursday.. and that was only 65 miles.. so I feel your pain, but in a different way.

I have taken my trailer to Kennedy airport in years past so I could leave right from work. I'm a racer and will do what has to be done.

I don't need an advocate, I can speak for myself.

That said, lets talk about what we do like about NHRA Sportsman Racing.

For me, my comparison is to bracket racing...

1. I like the professional vibe
2. I like the quality of the cars
3. I like that an official is actually looking over/teching every car, at least for the minimum safety requirements
4. I like that the daily program is typically done around dinner time.
5. I like that we aren't racing every week
6. I like that we are competing for a Wally, the most coveted award in the NHRA from day one
7. I like that we are racing in a points series for a championship
8. I like that my son enjoys class racing.
9. I like winning:D

That said, what could they do better?
1. track prep
2. consistent rollout at every track and use the same tree at every event
3. parking

FED 387 02-21-2019 12:10 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Well we have had over 150 posts concerning the original post. There have been many excellent posts. Many of the repliers are content with the way the current NHRA racing is going, a few feel that some tweaking is in order while others think a wholesale overhaul of the current structure is needed. As we have seen a few racers are quite passionate in their position and have stated that they are quite upset that others cannot understand their position on the subject. That's fine but it brings us back to the original point of this question which I understand is" a major sponsor is seeking information on how/if to "possibly" seek changes that would benefit the larger majority of racers in Stock and Super Stock"

I think the discussion has deviated from the original posters intent and either needs to be put to bed or try to stick to the original question.

For the record I have been a NHRA/IHRA member since the late 1960's. I have been both a driver and a car owner. I have competed/been involved in Stock/Super Stock/Modified Eliminator/Competition Eliminator classes. I agree many changes have been made, changes could be made and changes that need to be made. Quit the petty bickering and for those who keep expressing their personal opinion "I get it" I maybe do or don't agree 100% with you but I have listened to you and as I said its time to take a breath and let it rest for a minute.

MY 2 CENTS !!!
FED 387

SS/1230 02-21-2019 12:14 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FED 387 (Post 583097)
Well we have had 150 posts concerning the original post. There have been many excellent posts. Many of the repliers are content with the way the current NHRA racing is going, a few feel that some tweaking is in order while others think a wholesale overhaul of the current structure is needed. As we have seen a few racers are quite passionate in their position and have stated that they are quite upset that others cannot understand their position on the subject. That's fine but it brings us back to the original point of this question which I understand is" a major sponsor is seeking information on how/if to "possibly" seek changes that would benefit the larger majority of racers in Stock and Super Stock"

I think the discussion has deviated from the original posters intent and either needs to be put to bed or try to stick to the original question.

For the record I have been a NHRA/IHRA member since the late 1960's. I have been both a driver and a car owner. I have competed/been involved in Stock/Super Stock/Modified Eliminator/Competition Eliminator classes. I agree many changes have been made, changes could be made and changes that need to be made. Quit the petty bickering and for those who keep expressing their personal opinion "I get it" I maybe do or don't agree 100% with you but I have listened to you and as I said its time to take a breath and let it rest for a minute.

MY 2 CENTS !!!
FED 387

That's the great thing about chat threads....anyone can pretty much chat on a topic, and you can choose whether or not if you want to read them.

1320racer 02-21-2019 12:18 PM

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/1230 (Post 583098)
That's the great thing about chat threads....anyone can pretty much chat on a topic, and you can choose whether or not if you want to read them.

I agree! No one's opinion is worth less or should be silenced because others don't agree.

Stop by and say hello this season, JA Jr. knows me.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.