Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Nothing new here. This is how things have been since the very beginning.


Sorry, but I feel you are wrong on this. Having the resources to run makes life easier, but it still takes a thought and effort to go fast.


I think that a lot of guys perspective is stuck in the past. The cost to run a competitive Class car hasn't changed particularly when compared to income statistics. A new Camaro cost around $3,000.00 in the sixties. They are now $30,000.00 plus. Paying $3,000.00 for a new car and then spending the money to be a "player" back then was big money. Maybe some people have just lost the enthusiasm that is part of youth?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Stop crying Wolf. They ain’t lowering the indexes. It makes no sense
The only place to straighten out horsepower is....
INDY.. Put the 120 under hit on the SOFT *** Combos.
It’s the only race that draws the bogus cars .. for some reason you folks don’t see why it’s needed. But you all will complain so and so is too fast. No more Indy charity
Indy is a joke.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Hey Paco,the "bogus" stuff doesn't go to Indy.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Really? I've seen an awful lot of rich strokes who know little or nothing about cars, who decide they're tired of golf or tennis, and want to be a super star in drag racing. These guy just keep writing checks until they have the prettiest, fastest car in whatever class they choose. And the hard workers, who are spending money they actually WORKED to earn, standby helplessly, while the lawyer, banker, insurance executive, real estate mogul, corporate executive, trust fund recipient, etc. runs them over. Want an example? SS/AH.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Where do they have to qualify??? I'm not seeing many 128 car fields, except at Indy where those cars wouldn't qualify anyway.

Now it would suck come eliminations time when they couldn't run the index!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Vic, you're kidding me right? You just won the World Championship in SS and you're saying you can't afford the good stuff?? You're the Champ! Go get some of the good stuff for free!! Oh, wait, nobody gives anything away anymore.

I'm with you on not lowering the indexes though. I really don't see the point in that!

Congrats, by the way!!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

So, you are saying that money in class racing is a new thing?

I also find it interesting that you have the perspective that people with money didn't earn it. I guess nobody ever worked their way up to the top? Nobody ever put racing to the side to build a career? Heaven forbid that somebody like that should spend their hard earned money to have nice stuff. Is it now a sin to pay smart, hard working people to catch up?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Oh Jesus, here we go...

First, I AM saying that money in class racing is a relatively new thing. I am old enough to remember when class racing did not consist primarily of check-writing. The guys in the staging lanes actually built their cars, they didn't just assemble the stuff they paid others to do. Disagree if you want, but I WAS THERE. They didn't pull their COPO Camaro, transported in a stacker trailer, with a $500,000 motorhome. They towed their home-built car, on an open trailer, with a pickup truck. They weren't there for the fashion show; they were there to put their skill and knowledge up against the skill and knowledge of their competitors. Sure, money was involved, but intelligence, skill and hard work were the real keys to being fast.

I'm talking about a very specific group of "racers", who aren't really racers at all. They're "poseurs", who decide to spend their money (hard-earned, or otherwise) on "something cool", like drag racing. I hate the way people on this site take simple, unambiguous arguments and twist the intent into something they think the author should be ashamed of. How many "put racing to the side to build a career" guys do you REALLY assume there are? And why do you single out the rich guys as having "nice stuff". I've seen hundreds of bucks-down guys with very nice stuff. And finally, did I say that it's a sin to pay smart, hard working people to "catch up"? Not a single one of your chosen words or phrases appear in my post.

Make whatever bull**** you want to out of my post. I don't care. I'll stick to the position that the more you involve money in the sport (whether corporate or personal money), the farther away from its roots drag racing drifts.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Just an observation.....13 pages already.

Does this thread remind others of the Indy Teardown thread?
Let me know how much popcorn to prepare?:D

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Stop calling it a "sport"! NHRA Sportsman Drag Racing is in the position that it's in because either the B-O-D, the Sponsors, the Track Owners, the Racers themselves, etc.etc.etc., blame whoever you want, allowed Drag Racing to become an expensive HOBBY! It is no longer a "sport"!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

dictionary.com › browse › sport
noun. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I think that one thing that has greatly changed is that the factories have stopped handing out cars like they used to. There was a time when a lot talented racers would get serious help.


I agree, you don't see that much any more. Even when I started it was hard to get a hotel room on race weekends. Now the pits are full of motorhomes and hotel rooms are pretty easy to find. That's one thing that I don't get. You can't say that it is tied to the new cars because it started way before that. Maybe it's an age thing that started it? A lot of the current racers are at an age where they have some "expendable" money for creature comforts?


I haven't met many of "those" guys. Several haven't lasted long.


More than the other kind. I find them much more dedicated and enthusiastic than a lot of the guys who have been at it for a long time.


I didn't.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

It seems that lowering the index's would not hurt the racers at the bottom so much. Everyone should be able to run 2 tenths under the index in 2019/2020...especially with all that NHRA has allowed racers to do in recent years.

It will be a positive for those many racers that do work hard and spend a lot of money so that they can run their cars without being penalized, holding back so much and shutting off at the 1,000. Not fun to watch! Even combos that are not considered "soft" can go 1.00 second under the index these days...why penalize them for the rules that NHRA has allowed or the money they spent or hard work the racer put in?! Stock and Super Stock are performance categories and meant to go fast, not shut-off and hold back.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

OK wise guy,

dictionary.com/browse/hobby
noun.an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation

So it's still a "sport" to Fletcher.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

When did "hobby" and "sport" become mutually exclusive terms? For me, racing absolutely falls under both headings.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Can you generate an income doing it? Could you possibly generate an income doing it? Will it at least generate enough monies to pay for itself? If not, then you are doing it using disposable income. It's a hobby.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Yes, I said that in my post. It is a hobby.

It is also a sport. I don't see where the definition of sport has anything to do with income, be it primary or supplemental.

I also bowl. It is a hobby, and it is a sport.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=Bob Smith;602856]It seems that lowering the index's would not hurt the racers at the bottom so much. Everyone should be able to run 2 tenths under the index in 2019/2020...especially with all that NHRA has allowed racers to do in recent years.

I'm at the bottom and still sorting out my combo its a fresh build. I spent the money on an LD340 intake which got me close to 4 under then NHRA took it away. Just when you think you are headed in the right direction. That hurt.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Thanks Bryan,I appreciate the kind words.Yes, I am finding out nobody gives anything away anymore,but I'll be OK as Ive never gotten anything free before anyway,but still trying!...My SRAC guy said he doesnt know a thing about lowering the index's.Good luck to all and have a Happy Thanksgiving......Victor Penrod

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=duster1256;602865]Whoa,wait a minute, all of the 340 guys said that the LD340 wasn't worth anything. Now NHRA has (rightfully) taken it away and all of the 340 guys are going just as fast as they were. They couldn't be f**g with the stock intakes........... naaa couldn't be.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;602871]Now we just need you to go after the intakes on 390 FFF's ,283 and BB chevys and others you might be aware off,and then go after all the carbs too!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;602871]I never said that. If it wasn't worth anything why take it away...

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

OK! When and where do you want to start?
If we get ALL of this stuff straightened out before the beginning of the season then we won't have to change the indexes.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Just what is it that you're saying then?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=duster1256;602873]If it wasn’t worth anything, why did they need it in the first place or why was it approved?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Just saying I wasn't happy with NHRAs decision after working on the car and spending the money to try and improve to go quicker and to have it taken away. I will keep working on it.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

So it WAS quicker?!?

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Billy now we agree. I think you might be coming over to the dark. Remember how much more fun it was 30 year ago. Not anywhere near the amount of crying. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Hobby vs. Sport


We engage in the activity and are not paid to do so-hobby, Each round results in a winner & a loser (score)-sport

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

My late sportswriter step-Dad told me that a sport needed a defense. Like golf, swimming and archery, he would call drag racing a recreation.
MJ

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Top Fuel is full contact.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

what would happen if they.

1 lower the trigger to .850 Under for a review,

2 1.00 on automatic hits

3 lower the average to .650

4 leave the index alone



would it change any thing in the long run or would we be back to where we now in a few years

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

If you can eat nachos and drink a beer while playing it is not a sport.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

That's funny, right there......

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Guys, Let me apologize , right up front here. I have seen the error of my ways.
I've learned a lot from this thread.
Majority seems to want heads up runs, everywhere. Nat's, Div's and local series races.
Again, the majority seems to want the indexes to never be lowered. It brings in lots of new blood to the "sport".
So, hear me out.
If some is good, more is better, right? More's Law.
I think we should ADD five tenths to all indexes.. so then, instant hp would be 1.70 under . Of course the AFX cars need some room at the top, plus too many 1.20 teardowns lately, so let's move the trigger up 2 /10's . That would then make 1.89 seconds difference, between what NHRA says a legal car should run, and what they really run. Sounds reasonable to me.
But think about it the advantages here. A young guy with a family could now afford to build a Stocker that would pass tech. He could now afford the $900 converters, $3800+ transmissions, $1200 pistons, $12 gas, $360 entries, and so on ..
Plus there would be more guys out there to beat up on in heads up runs or class.
Also , more guys to run the class averages down.
As another bonus, there would be more room to work the ladders however you'd like.
So , what do you think?

Sorry I didn't see the light earlier.

Happy Turkey Day

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Interesting idea to add 5 to all indexes.

How about a two tier Index system. Lower the current Index's 3. Then add back 6 or 7 for the second, high index for each class.

When you enter a race you identify your index choice. Must run that index for the race.

Qualifing ladder is base off the lower index number for each class.


No HP penalties under 1.20. Mandatory tear down 1.20 under or more.


Happy Thanksgiving

Steve Teeter. STK. 6380 /6283

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Mark I dont know if you're serious here,or just messin with us. But I totally agree and I'll give you a real life example.
Before I bought my first LT1 F body legal stocker, I had a street version of the same car. 96 Z28 6 sp manual I found the car on a used car lot it was rough and had been neglected but it ran like hell and the AC worked and it was cheap this car would probably go about 14:10 maybe a little faster.
One day I got the idea it would make a great stocker with a metric trans,.so after some investigation I was shocked it would be a natural C/SA and would have to run at least 11:40. Had the index been 11:90 I would have broke the tool box out and gotten to work.
And it would have been way cheaper than the car I did buy.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Take a dive on a pass and that is your new gauge index for the entire year. Go .3 faster or more then the dive ET you took and receive HP. The dive ET will not be as slow now compared in years past and correction will happen sooner and averages will be faster. Otherwise being punished for going to slow and diving to keep HP protected.

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Mark, I think you are onto something here. I mean , it is almost the year 2020....lets just do away with the indexes and run off 1/4 second breaks...kinda like nostalgia superstock....Winner gets 500 bucks, r/u gets 250 and everyone gets a participation trophy...this will allow the Eliminator to be more DIVERSE and we won’t hurt anyone’s feelings...sound familiar ????

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

How about the guys with the really big stackers and Renegades get taxed to cover the purse as well? They are the 1% after all and NHRA gets to keep all the gate and entries, win/win.