Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Welp, looks like 2020 will be the final year for us!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you angle mill the head at an extreme angle thereby reducing the port volume and NHRA only measures the head port volume aren't these "spacers" allowing larger cylinder head port volumes? It's not really about adapting different intakes but using the "spacer" to raise cylinder head port volume as the head isn't measured with the spacer installed. I guess the port entry can be raised also. Seems like a reasonable rule change to me. Although I feel for those affected, anytime you push the rules you put yourself in a position to have the rules get tightened, not in you favor whether it's been accepted before or not.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

The volumes are measured without the adapters.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Thanks , Joe
(123 posts later ;-) )

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I wonder if exhaust adaptors will be illegal too? I mean, the angle should be checked on the exhaust side, if the intake rule gets reinstated!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

That's my point. If you mill the head at a severe angle won't the cc's of the cylinder head runner be reduced? You can then open the runner up in other areas to bring the head back spec. cc's. The whole point of doing it.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

That's what I thought. Besides a better intake you're gaining CC's to work with and possibly changing the entry angle somewhat.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I don't understand the problem if porting, polishing, welding and epoxying is already permitted?
From rule book SS heads -
Must be correct casting number for year and horsepower claimed, per NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA-accepted. Cylinder-head casting must also be on NHRA runner volume list as published on NHRARacer.com. Porting, polishing, welding, epoxying, and acid-porting permitted.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Look at it this way.If a cylinder head had 200 cc port volume and you mill away 20 cc's with this angle milling. You now have a head with 180cc's that you can open up to the 200cc spec. which then could perform like a non angle milled 220cc head. Why else would they do this?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

“��”

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Get off the pipe. Your statement shows the lack of knowledge of porting cylinder heads.

It is not about volume, it is about CSA, volume and shape of the port. You can have a 230cc port volume that is outperformed by a 200cc port volume.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

You can, but with equal port configurations which will flow more? Duh. Why do think they're doing this angle milling, to make the intake fit better-lol

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I don't race Super Stock anymore. I have enough trouble racing Stock, lately. I don't care what you guys do, and not going to suggest anything here.
I can tell you this.
I realize they didn't measure port volume in the old days.
So you guys can call this stuff cheating, being innovative, gettin' competitve, whatever you like but , if Farmer, Greg X , or Marty Barrett were still with us, the first time they laid eyes on this stuff, they would have called it ..
"buh bye"

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Well....He may not be a "renowned head porter", but he has enough common sense to understand that if you lose volume by drastically milling the intake surface, you gain the ability to change the "CSA, Volume and shape of the port".....To use your phraseology.

Perhaps you shouldn't take his statement as an absolute.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I got that t-shirt the first year NHRA started checking port volume. Milled the exhaust surface almost smooth on some SB Chev heads.....Tech didn't want to see them again.
Want to discuss chamber mods and angle milling?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Mark,
The "First" word is the key. They would never have passed this stuff as you call it, then after multiple passing's,and multiple years,change their mind and say " to all those guys we told it was Ok..... please junk your stuff"

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Common sense?

As stated in a prior post, legally, Super Stock cylinder heads can be welded and/or epoxied. The angle milling does not have nothing to do with the volume of the ports. The majority of the Super Stock Chevy small block cylinder heads ports have been reshaped with epoxy and most are configured to an oval port from the OEM rectangular port shape.

Therefore, any Super Stock cylinder head can be returned to the appropriate port volume by welding or the use of epoxy.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Jeff, I agree with that
I guess you just can't expect too much for your 350 bucks.

Just trying to put all this in perspective

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Again:

http://nhraracer.com/content/general...728&zoneid=132

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

This is what Bill Jenkins, Bob Glidden, al all the Early Pro Stockers did to their heads.

No wonder Stock and Super Stockers are running ET's that were State of the Art back then..

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

So if I analyzed those blocks of text correctly, here's what's changed:

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Good thing pinned studs are still legal......All the racers with them can breathe a sigh of relief...…..LOL

P.S. I did pin a lot of studs but it was at least 30 years ago and a lot more....

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

I am curious why it's always been worded as "must hold volume" and no mention of maximum.

"Cylinder head must be able to hold combustion chamber, intake and exhaust runner volumes per NHRA Specifications"

The way I interpret that is a five gallon bucket will hold a gallon but a one gallon bucket won't hold five. So ports can be larger than their spec but not smaller.
Obviously they want the combustion chamber to hold all of the 72cc or whatever spec is but they want that 205cc port to hold NO MORE THAN 205cc.

Why wouldn't they just say that?

A lot of the rulebook seems to have been written in 1952 and they added extra words instead of rewriting the whole thing. The previously mentioned pinned studs for example.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Yeah......about that. I also hadn't pinned any studs in a long time either. Racers moved on to better options.

Then......the Magazines and the Internet "Experts" convinced all these streetcar folks that they needed Vortec heads as a "budget" performance option. You put one more ounce of spring pressure or cam lift on those things. and the studs seem to fly out. Once they see that the guides have to be cut and new seals installed, there's no room in the "budget" for screw-in studs. Now pinning becomes an option again.
P.S. I can't describe how much I dislike pinning studs nowadays.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Who is going to be the first to take a bbc oval port head and mill 1" off the intake flange of head below the valve cover bolts? Should gain 50-60cc to open up the port.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Yeah, after the crying, NHRA backing down leaves the door open for more "innovation".

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Bert,
Do you even know what you are talking about?
Gain 50 to 60 cc's when the rules allow you to port, epoxy and epoxy the cylinder heads?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Bert knows exactly what he is talking about! If they cc without the spacer plate there is a ton to gain. And if there wasn't gains to be had in port volume, then why do they make'm. Air speed can still be retained with more volume.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

It is measured without the spacer and not all engines use a spacer. There is a lot more to to volume to make power with cylinder heads.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Once again the "innovators" get there way !! Break out the 85b n mill away !! Can anyone guess whats next to come down the road ??

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

If the port volume is measured without the spacer, you get to add all the spacer volume into the port. Very simple to understand. Make the rule that the port volume is measured with the spacer and I bet you wont see anymore of them.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Exactly how do you do that with a sheet metal intake (and there are no plates) ?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Joey and Bert are correct. This is EXACTLY what Westcott did to build the monsters he and his dad ran in SS/AH.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

You are exactly right Jeff, sheet metal intake would cover it up. So the rule of not cutting into the valve cover bolt and angle of +/-2 degrees would put some parameters to the rule.

As for it being legal per the rulebook, the no external modifications wording makes it illegal. Also, isn't there a sentence somewhere in rulebook that if it doesn't say you can do it, then you can't? Not sure about that but recall something like it.

I looked at a bbc head last night and roughly calculated the 50-60cc number using 1.75"x2"x1" but the port is oval not rectangular. So it would not be that big but bet it is 30-40cc. The advantage would definitely be bigger for bbc verses sbc.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

The rule states the intake bolt holes must remain in original location. How can you cut 1" off the head and still leave the intake bolts in their original location? Or how about the valve cover bolt holes?

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

The spacer is just an extension of the intake runner. Just adding more volume to the intake tract does not make more power. As Jeff Niceswanger stated, you can do the same with the proper sheet metal or billet intake or even by welding a cast intake.

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

So per the rulebook, milling the deck surface of the head is illegal......:rolleyes:

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

Don't think so,Wescotts heads don't use plates and still retain the valve cover bolt holes...

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

This!

Re: NHRA 2020 Rule Amendment SS Intakes???
 

You just don't get it. So why do you think they're doing this? The guy that was doing it obviously thought it had an effect.