Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Gary Ormsby and the "Terrible Towel" also come to mind.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

This has been pretty interesting to read, and all I have to add is some ancient anecdotal evidence.

i was racing a 70 Duster 340 4 spd I'd bought new. A year or so later, the alternator went out during the time Accel was expanding into more than plug wires. They brought out an alternator with a switch for the field circuit. In my young mind, that was Mopar Missile trick stuff.

I never saw any difference using it. Of course, that was a long time ago when 99% didn't measure or track weather data and long before data loggers existed.

When I moved into data acquition and analysis, nothing I ever worked with had an alternator. So, I ask the people who would know - is it a sure thing the small amount of hp sapped by a working alternator (I don't even know how many amps headlights draw) is actually a measurable and significant amount?

Whether it's some genius racing trick or not, it doesn't affect my admiriaton for what the Sorensons have accomplished.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Apparently nobody gives a **** Billy since nobody has responded but I'm curious as well......

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Anyone who would question these two Brother's Stock Racing Integrity doesn?t have a clue. They were racing for a Championship. All eyes were on them. Don?t you think they would have all the bases covered? I certainly do.
Totally disappointed and disrespectful comments.
These aren?t high dollar racers, it?s old school at its finest!
Congratulations Joe and Hal Sorenson for a well tuned / built and driven Championship.


My last post here.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Barry, there's no disrespect intended on my end and I'm glad that a couple of old poops are the World Champs but I believe that a legitimate question was asked about the combo claimed.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I don't think Billy nor myself are questioning anyone's integrity just asking a reasonable question. Amen I missing something here?

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I am so happy that they got the radiator leak at the scales fixed. A tip of the hat to Joe and Hal for reading and understanding the rulebook. Congratulations on winning the championship.
Larry and Patsy Hill

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

The hood is legal on a NON SS Camaro. As for the combo, they changed heads for the Vegas races. Is everyone gonna sleep now?

As for the SORENSEN (spelling) brothers, congratulations to two of the hardest working in stock eliminator!

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Thank you!

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I unfortunately had the best seat in the house in the Stock final at Vegas,when that badazzz Camaro settled down from its ginormous wheelstand it just slowly moved away 2.5 mph at the middle and I was going about -1.05 under in a 20 mph headwind and 27.85 baro,thought i was going faster,some people ask why didn?t you push him further ? I?m the 1 and only 1970 340 AVS in an E-Body,not interested in being heavier next year as I was close on my average and Pomona National to go,HATS OFF to these stand up guys,CONGRATS Hal and Joe on your well deserved Stock World Championship ,proud to call them our friends……Chad Langdon 706C F/SA

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

But the car has to be an SS to use the 350/300.
At least I'm glad that they changed the heads.
Must be a "west coast" rulebook thing. ;-)

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I stated wrong information on head interchangeably. My apologies

The hood deal I have a little first hand knowledge how NHRA treated the E Body Cuda. If I ran one engine the car had to have this one hood. If I used a different engine I had a choice of two hoods but was not allowed to run the first hood. But if that interpretation has been removed I wish they would have published it.

What is OEM equipment on a 1969 Camaro, I have no idea.

Congratulations gentleman on your well earned Championship

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Umm no, the 350/255 can only use a 441 head casting. The 350/300 can use a number of head castings but not a 441.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I have seen an awful lot of 67-69 Camaros wearing "Z/28" emblems that had 350/, 396 and 427 engines, AND Automatic transmissions, nobody seems to bat an eye. Weird huh? Also have seen fiberglass AAR hoods on non AAR Cudas, NHRA allows Powerglide cars use later 3 speed automatics, and don`t even get me started on all the new COPO, DragPak, and Cobra Jet Mustangs that come with Ford 9 inch rearends, Powerglides, and virtually zero engine components that actually came on the production models in the showrooms. Pretty sure a taller hood wouldn`t slow Joe down at all !

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

NHRA stopped Joe at the scales during the divisional and went over the car. Joe has a order form from GM stating you COULD order a non SS with a 350/300 combination.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Oh I'd LOVE to see a copy of that letter and who signed it! I'm sure Jerry Mcniesh and about a hundred different Racers in Stock and SS would too!
I'm calling BS on that one.
It didn't come from the same guy who came up with the paperwork for the 780 Holleys and Edelbrock intakes on the AMCs did it?

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Dan, they are not some genius racing tricks, but bonified viable and legal racing strategies if you are so close to red in a natural leave spot on the tree or E.T. to need them at the moment.

As far as the charging system and the drawdown effect it all depends on a whole host of items in your charging system of course (size and total cranking amps of the battery and charge state of the battery (how many time@ you start the car from pit to line), size, type and charging amps of your alternator, type and amps draw of those headlights, and how many headlights/tail lights and marker lights
you turn on...in my case all of em...High beams or low, regulator type, etc.

But, it can certainly shave off thousandths to a couple of hundredths at the tree on the leave and turn just red to a decent green.

200rpm less stall speed usually does the same for me, but 500 killed both the light and knocked off too much on the 60' too. Somehow my right foot moved when bumping in with the left. Lessons learned. Pulling on a light switch would sure be easier to accomplish with less risk. And each must find their own ways to adjust.

When a blink of your eyes takes 2.5 tenths of a second to accomplish, and the difference between red/green is so minute your brain cannot possibly comprehend or adjust your body a couple of thou, mechanical or biological changes must be applied. Not genius, not tricks, just good/bad strategy.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Ya know, just to put an end to this, I don't really care about the "missing" SS hood. If anything it would take away from the engine. As long as I know that NHRA looked at the car and it had the correct heads for the combo claimed and class claimed then I'm OK with it.
Again, congratulations Hal and Joe!

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

I have to fully agree with Billy on that 1...The information must be provided directly to NHRA by the MFG. I also have the original 1984 Dodge Daytona factory showroom brochure published concerning all 3 models available that year and that I personally picked up at the same time we picked up the car I am driving that has all 3 shipping weights and other full specifications listed, and they are different than listed in the NHRA classification guide and they would not accept that data from me and adjust the actual shipping weight. And it would make an actual natural class fit difference. My combo was never shipped as light as the guide shows period. Data published elsewhere online also verifies the brochure specs and weights too. But, they flat out refuse to even look at the evidence and state they are not adjusting the shipping weight.

I am not stating I know anything about Camaro hoods or engine combos here at all, just pointing out the inconsistent ways NHRA deals with documentation and evidence, specs.

If the evidence exists look at it in all cases and rule on it, then publish it for all to use. But, that takes work. Laziness and economics rules the day these days it seems. Fairness to all takes a back seat.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

First off Congrats to Joe and Hal
Well deserved for two guys who actually assemble their own engines and transmissions.

About the hood }
I have a good friend who bought a used Camaro (68, not 69). It was ordered with a 295 / 350 engine, Powerglide trans, column shifter, bench seat, and small dog dish style hubcaps .
It was badged as a SS car, but sure didn't look it from a few feet away. .
Anyway , it DID have the raised hood with the chrome simulated ports inserts on it.
I wonder if the original buyer knew you could un-order the heavier SS hood?
Again this was a 68 car. Interesting !
Also , we raced a 68 Chevy II ,that was ordered as a big block car ,with rubber floor mats . We ran it as a 350 /295 PG combo. Of course it had to have the SS hood on it.

As a matter of fact, as long as I've been racing, which is more than a few years, anything that came from GM @ 295 horse or more had to have a SS hood , or cowl induction on Camaros

Again, very interesting ...Who knew?

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Mark, again I'm done with the hood on Joe's car BUT the GM archives says differently although it IS kinda confusing.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

How many 68-69 GTS darts came with a flat hood new and how many run in NHRA stock eliminator? I guess it isn't about the hood. Too many different GM combos for myself to know.

Paul H

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

[QUOTE=Mark Yacavone;705455]First off Congrats to Joe and Hal
Well deserved for two guys who actually assemble their own engines and transmissions.

About the hood }
I have a good friend who bought a used Camaro (68, not 69). It was ordered with a 295 / 350 engine, Powerglide trans, column shifter, bench seat, and small dog dish style hubcaps .
It was badged as a SS car, but sure didn't look it from a few feet away. .
Anyway , it DID have the raised hood with the chrome simulated ports inserts on it.
I wonder if the original buyer knew you could un-order the heavier SS hood?
Again this was a 68 car. Interesting !
Also , we raced a 68 Chevy II ,that was ordered as a big block car ,with rubber floor mats . We ran it as a 350 /295 PG combo. Of course it had to have the SS hood on it.

As a matter of fact, as long as I've been racing, which is more than a few years, anything that came from GM @ 295 horse or more had to have a SS hood , or cowl induction on Camaros

Again, very interesting ...Who knew?[/QUOTE

I race a 1968 Camaro. I have a 350/295 engine and a 327/275 engine. NHRA tech told me that I had to have the SS hood when running the 350. I could and do run the 327 with the SS hood or I could run a flat hood with the 327. That was many years ago. Maybe they changed their interpretation now days. I have never actually weighed them to see how much lighter the flat hood is compared to the SS hood. 67 and 68 can not run a cowl hood. I tried that and was rejected.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

And I will add they do all their own work-no bubble packers here!

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

As far as 68 Camaro with cowl hood...
I understand that there was exactly ONE 68 built with the cowl hood...
And it was a GM demo/display car...

Fact or fiction...

And cowl hoods on 69s was not as many as one would think percentage wise...
Pace cars, COPOs, SOME Z-28, and SOME SS cars...?

Also as far as weight goes...
The SS hood and cowl hood have to weigh near the same as they both use the same hoodhinge spring and the flat hoods used a lighter spring...
And I have no idea about actual weights either...

And at one time didn't you have to run the correct SS hood for the year model?...
Seems I remember they used to be picky about trim and emblems...

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Ed,

A few questions.

1) Is Alf's product available for purchase?

2) What are those black boxes on the top of the dashboard?

3) Is that a temperature sensor on the differential cover?

Frank

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Between 15 and 20 lbs.. The SS hood is a heavier spring. A flat hood spring won't hold up an SS hood. Ask me how I know (ouch), I've had a couple of them.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

A few years ago I approached our General Motors guy about the whole 1969 Camaro hood deal. He wouldn't accept that most Z-28s didn't come with a cowl hood!!

I think that the only way to prove hood availability in both the 255 and 300 combinations is to find a real invoice for a car equipped the way a competitor is claiming.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

#1 https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...ad.php?t=75732

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

You can call BS all you want but first, you should know that Sean Cour is NOT a guy who offers BS ~ I've known Sean since he was pulling on daddy's pant leg way back in the 70's and he is the real deal.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

In my collector car days, I owned a nicely optioned 69 Z. It's been a long time, but somehow I remember the cowl hood option number was stamped onto the firewall trim tag. Problem is, GM was not consistent throughout their plants. Mine was built in Norwood. And as I learned from the collector arena, a whole lot of people would change or even counterfeit the tags to get the car the way they wanted and still claim originality.

As for the GM guy thinking that cowl hoods were plentiful, this was when I was most active on the streets and at the track. The Z28 was very popular by then and I saw a lot of them. In my experience, less than half I saw had the cowl option. Remember, these cars were being bought by young guys who barely had the money for one and it also wasn't even a full year option.


Came back to add: I was seriously into restoration and research. The only "ringer" hood I ever ran across with documentation from the era it was built was on 67 Corvettes. During the production run, some idiot left a screwdriver (used to remove the hood from the mold) in the small block flat hood mold and then closed it, ruining the mold. Those took a lot of time and effort to make and GM didn't have a spare. So there were some 67 327 Corvettes that came off the line with the big block raised hoods.

And the AMC parts numbers. In 69, I owned a 68 AMX. At every AMC dealer parts department, there was a supplement to the parts book which contained performance parts. It was called Group 19. The intake and carb were definitely listed there with an AMC part number. Yes, not production line but we all know what's happened with replacement parts these days.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Frank, were you always this stupid or is this stupidity a result of old age and senility?

1 week ago you called for my immediate ban in this thread, from this forum and now you're asking me to answer your questions. :rolleyes:

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Oh yea, GO **** YOURSELF.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Not stupidity or senility, just a weak moment and it will never happen again. I promise sweetheart.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Thu, 14 Nov 2024, 16:47 PM

Stock Eliminator Qualifying, Session #2 Final Order




POMONA, Calif. - Final order after 2 rounds of qualifying in Stock Eliminator at the NHRA Mission Foods Drag Racing Series, 59th annual In-N-Out NHRA Finals:

Psn--Num--Class-Driver, Home Town, Machine-----------------ET---Index---(+/-)

1 6633 F/SA Joe Sorensen, Woodburn OR, '69 Camaro 10.667 11.85 -1.183

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

You have already proven you can’t keep your promise! So your word ain’t worth shyt.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Eddie,
To know me is to love me and if you ever have the privilege
to meet me in person I guarantee it will be special, memorable and unforgettable for you.
Warmest regards,
Frankie Pooh

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Frank, if that is some kind of threat, BRING IT!

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

Joe Sorenson is a perennial top qualifier and now he's the world champ. I remember some people on here saying being fast in your class doesn't matter from a statistical standpoint and almost never contributes to winning races. I wonder how many singles and heads up wins Joe has racked up this season.

Re: Joe Sorenson
 

No threat bro. I don't roll that way. Send me a PM and let's talk this out.