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I look into that because my Valiant could run in the 10's thru
the mufflers if not detuned/weighted etc. to run mid 11s.

Probably about $3,000 if I removed and replaced the interior myself,
not counting the safety equipment. All for a car I paid $5,500.
with a lot of spare stuff included with it!

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Just from reading him here and watching a couple of interviews Gump seems like a pretty good guy and I admire that he thrives on challenges and breaking new ground. But there's a couple of things in my mind about this whole deal.

So a T400 may have been used in BMWs. Stating the obvious, but the Supra is not a BMW. Toyota is one corporation, BMW is another whether they sometimes share technology or not. If he was building a Z4, I'd have no issue. This is just stretching the rules (and logic) much too far. I realize that when the factory cars were being introduced a lot of crazy thinking got approved.

Second, yes AMC did start using torqueflites but it was long before they were bought out. I owned a 68 AMX with a Borg Warner (T35?) which was nothing but problems. If my memory is correct, in 69 they started using the Mopar stuff. The pain from buying a year too early is still with me. I have a knack for that - I bought a new leftover 273/235 Barracuda in the summer of 67 just weeks before the 340 was introduced.

Finally, I know the horses left the barn, but there is no way this should be in the Stock classes.

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How is this a paper car? This is a factory car with a VIN and title. Yes the rear suspension had to be modified to fit the rules but everything I've seen/heard makes this as legit as any other stocker I know of. Might not be a typical stocker we are familiar with, but it wasn't supposed to be.

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Read between the lines. The Supra was built by.... I PROVED that to the NHRA....

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It would be a "factory car", IF it used the same brand of transmission and rearend that the car came from the factory with, like every other factory built Stock Eliminator car, that is actually in the NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide, which last time I looked the other day, NO Toyota vehicle is in the guide. The factory car came with a transmission with several more gear ratios than a 3 speed Turbo 400. A Japanese Toyota car with a German BMW engine, and an American GM transmission, and a Ford rearend sounds like quite a stretch for a "Factory Stock" car, let alone a traditional Stock Eliminator car.

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I have been around Stock/Super Stock racing since my uncle gave me a ride up to the staging lanes in 1970 in his SS/G 69 CJ Mustang. I consider my self a purist of the sport and not to my liking it has evolved way past the point of no return. My family were Ford dealers since 1946 and we have seen over 75 years how the different manufactures have gone to bed with one another on many parts to build these cars to cut costs. It's not like the 60's, 70's,80's,90's etc. So we have to move forward with what the manufactures are doing today and try in some way to get new cars in the class. It was great when the Big 3 built the Copo's, CJ's and Drag Pak's, but they really weren't Stock Eliminator cars in the purist definition and should be in their own class, Kudo's for NHRA doing that. So to get new blood in the sport, which we definitely need, building a factory produced car that was produced by the thousands is a great move forward for our sport. Now, the rules are more gray in the areas everyone is talking about, trans, rear ends, etc. But these cars nowdays are Heinz 57's, like a dog with lots of breeds mixed in LOL. I take my hat off to GUMP for going thru the process with NHRA and Toyota, I know how hard it is. I'm the one that got the 2003 Mustang specs in the guides back in 2007, thanks to Jesse Kershaw at Ford, so I could build one of the 2003 Cobra's for A/S. Should have kept that car, but that's another story. Back to the Supra. Believe me you guys, you do not want to compete with any 6, 8 or 10 speed automatic car, they will run away and hide from any, Metric 200, Turbo 350, C4, Torqueflight out there. Gump actually slowed it down putting in the Turbo 400. LOL. As far as the rear end, I wish NHRA would have made an exception about the no truck rear end deal in this car instead of the 9 inch, but the new 2008 rule is in effect. The only thing I disagree with on all the new cars are the drive by wire throttlebody's, those should be a no-no, too much can be done with the computer to control the car. I'm finishing up a newer car and I made sure the throttle was a mechanical cable, also my car was massed produced with a vin and going to run in the regular classes. I love to see Bobby Brannon, Dan Zrust, Al Corda, Ponville boys run the production cars in the traditional classes. I can't wait to see the Supra, it's gonna be fast, just keep it out of I/J/K GUMP!!! LOL.




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

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Again, not one rule was changed to allow the Supra. In fact this statement is blatantly false. There's how YOU think the rules are written and what's actually in the rulebook.

I'm almost finished with a 2024 Camaro. It has a 9" rear and a transmission that has zero OEM parts (including the case). It was built from a CRC so it never had a VIN. It is also 100% legal.

History shows that I was against almost every "enhancement" over the years. All it does is drive up the cost and add complexity to the cars. But, I don't make the rules, I just do my best to roll with them.

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Entered a like for this comment just to clarify I have no issue with Daren taking whatever advantage the rules give him, but rather that the NHRA started us down this very wrong road a while back. Yes, times change but the present state of Stock (and Super Stock) is so far away from what it was meant to be is more than annoying to me.

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I very much agree on this.

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Ok so by your logic though how does it work with stick shift cars from the 1990's ? The Borg Warner trans was used in Mustangs and Gm cars and trucks . All stick cars no matter what make can run a G force , Jerico , Liberty and thats not a problem . I did a little research and from what I can see the 8 speed used in the Supra is used in Chryslers cars so TECHNICALLY you could say it has a Chrysler auto so the Supra could use a 904

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You claim that "Not one rule was changed to allow the Supra", how about the rule that for over 1/2 century , only cars were allowed in Stock that were included in the oficial NHRA Classification Guide'? Or did NHRA decide to give you a fresh sheet or paper to create a Toyota that is NOT in the guide?

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Not in MY house!
Stock and SS have changed because NHRA accepted "deals" which forced S/SS to change and certain Racers took advantage of those changes. I'm not going to determine whether the changes are right or wrong but they're not for me.

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There has always been a procedure to have something added to the guide

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You were part of a couple of discussions yesterday!

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Please Sir can I have more.Now we have a transmission adapter aproved. But please sir I need more too. It never ends! These new car builds are rediculous. No focus on the normal cost to to build a chassis. I think most who care. Can't wait to see the "I need a break on the factory rated Hp rating". will be.

Paul Haszlauer

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Its amazing the resistance that is being posted on here against Daren getting this combo approved. If we want to move forward with class racing, this is how it's done.
Not everyone wants a fwd Escort or Cavalier. Nor do they want to pay 30k for a non junk 69 camaro to turn it into a race car. Alot of racers started as car guys, so they want a cool car in their eyes to start out with, just not a car that fits as a good combo.
I understand the rules are moving farther and farther away from the 1970s stock rules, but if you dont use those rules to your advantage, you will be left behind. We have a guy in D1 that probably has the most legal stocker in the country and would probably pass 1970s rules. You know what that gets him? Bottom of the sheet, and at bad weather tracks a designated pair dialing the index he cant cover.
There is no award for that. I get it, cam rules, transmission rules. Roller rockers, "Enhanced" cylinder heads and many many other things have pushed us farther away. But maybe something like this Supra will get the interest of a younger person, or maybe not. But fwd 90s cars and 2bbl Mavericks definitely won't either.

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Sorry, I don't buy the "we must fundamentally change the classes into something else in order to 'save' them" argument.


In the end, what did you actually "save"?




Sort of reminds me of some guy who said "we live in the greatest country on Earth, join me now to change it".

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I don't believe that allowing the Copos, CJs and DPs into Stock saved anything. It just put the Eliminator into a situation where we now have 8 sec. combos racing against 17 sec. combos. If the "Factory Racers" were put into SS (where they belong), history has shown that modern showroom Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers would have found their way into Stock anyway and in REAL STOCK classes.

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Actually, what it did was brought in lots more guys who could write those 3-4 hundred dollar entry checks on a regular basis.
You know NHRA is not complaining about that.

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When you spend some time at the e.t. races. There are plenty of young drivers enjoying drag racing their "brand new" cars. Someone said this will bring out the younger crowd. Now son to race your car at a NHRA event. You will need to install a 70 yr old Ford 9" in there. Can't beat it! There are new parts for them. How do you do that. Open your wallet as wide as it can be stretch,, my good man. My new car has a V6. Oops NHRA doesn't recognize new plan janes. Your best bet is to buy a factory race car. By the way the parts for a mopar drag pak are no longer available. Can we start over!

Paul

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The problem is, we are arguing with each other instead of all of us arguing with nhra.

It's not "we" against "him"...he's following the rules and doing what it takes to get something able to race in Stock. The issue is the rules or lack thereof.

You know what would REALLY stick the young kids in the drivers seat? Putting ALL the cars in the guide. How many of you have been asked about stock and how it works at the track by a bracket racer who is running his new (er) car and you have to tell them "sorry, your car is not in the guide"????

Heck I was even told "you should convert your foxbody to a stocker, the payout is better and for $100 (our local entry fee) you have a better chance of getting some money back (pays back farther)...can still run it as a bracket car if you want but if it's legal, you can race in this series too"

Love to be able to tell someone, "your 4 year old car? It fits (whatever)/SA, right now you are 2 seconds from the index, get gears and a converter and cam/springs to start with and see if the car is competitive" instead of "sorry, not in the guide, you need a mid 90's or older car" (and we're in the rust belt where 5 year old cars are rusty!!)

I'll accept a turd yota if it's in the guide, my issue is not that it wasn't and had to be added, it's that it should of been there in the first place and none of this arguing would of been done.
We need some people in nhra that actually cares about S/SS and wants to see if flourish. Someone who will go to the manufacturers and get the specs. Have an open line to the manufacturers, "hey, it's nhra, can you send the latest vehicle specs please"?
Did every single vehicle in the guide presently only get there because someone did the leg work for "their" car?? Don't think so, that came later when the real support dried up.

Put yota's, honda's, heck kia's in the guide and you will be flooded with fwd 16 second cars, but that is STILL an increase in purse!! With v6 mustangs, camaros, challengers in the guide, people in the rust belt can build a newer car without having to buy a cobra, copo or drag pack.

(I had to go on a bit to give my $.84Can to equal $.02 US).

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On the other hand Billy, some of us in those 17 second cars find it really thrilling to see that 8-9 second rocket flying up next to them (especially after watching that amazing wheelie they just did in the rear view to see if they are green or red and if it is going to be a race at the stripe or not). I certainly know it is what keeps me interested (and my blood pumping these days the most beyond a heads up class race for another Wally).

Fast or slow, my fellow competitors know too (I hear it in their encouraging convo pre-pass, and afterwards if I am successful against 1 of those fast bullets/rockets).

Being anywhere in the bottom half of the qualifying sheet is tough, but as you well know it makes you work harder to improve things you can over time.

I go there knowing my quadrant on the ladder will be deep with the FS/ Stockers, right now just working on the car to move up that Q sheet a bit and attempt to get away from them as a guaranteed 1st rnd opponent, and on myself w/the car to steal the tree an 1/8th mile before they even see their yellows drop and give myself a fair shot at the stripe.

I have seen a lot of red lights in my lane over the years (but never as many really close ones as my 1st year back racing stk -.002 to -.010 just knowing I needed every bit of as close to trip zip as I can get to even have a chance against that usual late model rocket ship that I find most in that other lane now. But, it is making me young again!

It certainly makes me smile more lately. It has been costly, working really hard for every single tenth of E.T./under index improvement, and it is all worth every minute of the work knowing there are almost zero off the shelf go faster parts to be found. The research alone is amazing andI am learning a lot.

I cannot wait to get a chance to possibly line up next to that beautiful Supra and even get the chance to race Darren Poole-Adams. I know he has worked as long and as hard as I have, his is newer and faster, but neither was just a purchased proven combo, but a massaged very personal pc just to get there on the Q-Sheet that took dedication and time that of all people I know you appreciate as you have done it to so many combos over time.

If nothing I salute him for his tenacity and hard work getting there. Are there things that bother me about the rules...yes, he got to drop from 17" wheels to 15's, and I cannot drop from stock 14's to 13's (so I could just have more FWD slicks choices). But, that is my cross to bear I guess.

Adding new info...

It was just pointed out to me a bit more info, some I knew existed, some I did not know (I assumed other combos came with a smaller rim size that did not come factory with them but run smaller). I already knew about the FWD traction device exception of any traction device allowable, and do agree highly that FWD tires/wheels are the absolute in traction devices that fit, but the conflicting rule in minimum 14" Unless it came Stock with a smaller rim size (wheels/tires in 11A), along with the G.R. of 12" minimum. It was the conflicting rules (that make things tough), that I was pointing out, but the exception (for FWD cars only, making up for the non-FWD cars ladderbars, etc), I think in this instance would overcome the actual written. In this particular case I would if I wanted to go that smaller size, get a written opinion before proceeding to do it (even under the known exception being very open and really easily defended), even if others are already doing so.

Either way I personally appreciate the input.

Toyota/BMW/GM/Ford front to rear no matter what is a very interesting STK Elim. combo. (Try to find anything like it in the guide anywhere...lol.) To me personally in the lane next to that very cool car....It would never be anything but a very cool bracket race. No chance for a heads up match up (closest is an index against index class combo matchup), so it is just a cool faster against slower combo racematch up,

Looking forward to see the front wheels in the air leaves and how far under he runs with it!

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I gotta say, despite all the folks in here protesting this car, the reception of it has been better than expected. I expected it to be like 80/20 dislike vs like but I'd say it's closer to 50/50. That just tells me Gump did a good job of building the car to the rule set and being transparent about it's build and justification.

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If something is able to be added to the guide, should such an addition not be able to be seen in that guide by anybody that wants to see any such additions ? Or is it to only be readable to a top secret select few?

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Once everything is approved by the NHRA it will be added to the guide. Then the whole world can see it. Which is exactly how it has always been.

I showed this car at the High Performance Expo in Charlotte because they wanted something new and exciting to showcase. Otherwise, it would have shown up at the next NHRA race local to me after it hit the guide.

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Wife and I were doing the RV travel deal in the Carolinas last week and was sorely tempted to swing by Shadyside?GO GUMP GO (like the poll).

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Must be nice to have enough pull to be able to build a car BEFORE that car is in the NHRA Classification Guide, and thus should have no specs, or "approved replacement" parts. When I build MY Stocker, I had to find a car and combination that was actually in the guide, before I even knew what casting numbers, specifications, HP ratings , accepted shipping weight, and so many other bit of information , which is exactly how it has always been until now.

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Do you know the history of the 1968 Cobra Jet?

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Rory, You are wrong, there were no 2003 specs for any Ford in the guide and I wanted to run a 2003 Cobra. So I contacted NHRA and ask them what I needed to do, They told me I had to get someone from Ford to summit all paperwork and specs to them. I contacted Jesse Kershaw and he agreed to send the info. I was building the car per Ford's specs while the process was taking place. Took almost 2 years to finally get it all done. The specs hit the guide and the car was finished around the same time. My uncle went thru the same process back in 1997 to get the 1995 Cobra R in the guides. So as far back as 97, the process has been the same.





Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

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My memory of the few turbo cars that have been tried in Stock and S/S is that they are usually very fast in their class, but not very consistent. So, a car like this will probably wreak havoc in its class at Indy, but generally not go very far in eliminations.

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Not that I have a dog in this fight, but what you're choosing to ignore is that you and Jeff chose to follow the conventional path to approval. You chose a vehicle combination that you wanted to race, and approached the manufacturer and NHRA to get that combination installed into the guide.


What you DID NOT do, is built a finished race car BEFORE the manufacturer submitted specs to NHRA....Which leaves the appearance of specific favoritism, since it appears that the specs will be generated around that ONE SPECIFIC race car.


And yes, I know all about the 1968 Cobra Jets....And all the vagaries involved. Ford really twisted the arm of NHRA to get it done...and not for the first time either. But consider that process involved more one specific vehicle. What we are discussing is a completely new and different process towards inclusion in the guide. Darren admits specifically that....."Once everything is approved by the NHRA it will be added to the guide. Then the whole world can see it. Which is exactly how it has always been.".....Really?....Always?
Not that I can blame them for taking advantage of a weak NHRA who's become beholden to Toyota for manufacturer support. If you can afford it, more power to you. But then too, you almost had to have an expectation that when included in the guide it would receive favorable horsepower to make it as competitive as possible.....Otherwise why would you make the investment in preemptively constructing a finished race car....One off transmission adapters included. By the way? What's the Toyota part number for that transmission adapter? Or the manufacturer? Is it an "on the shelf" part?


I believe these are the concerns you sort of glossed over in an attempt to diminish Mr.McNiel's question...though I've never met the man, maybe you could treat another racer with a little more respect, and determine his thoughts first.

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I?ve really enjoyed the thoughtful dialogue in this thread from everyone involved.

Do I personally agree with the Supra in Stock Eliminator? Not exactly. But I genuinely appreciate seeing something fresh and more modern in the class. I understand the mindset and the creative interpretation of the rules that allowed this car to fit within the classification guide. That said, I do want to express a bit of caution ? it feels like we?re inching closer to a single eliminator class with all the rule changes being proposed or implemented. I found myself agreeing with something GUMP said in his interview: older parts are becoming increasingly scarce, and we need to find ways to adapt if we want to keep this form of racing alive.

Credit where it?s due ? GUMP deserves recognition for challenging the status quo and trying something different. There are plenty of more "modern" cars I?ve dreamed of building and seeing in the guide, but I don?t have the resources or connections to make that happen. Hats off to Mr. GUMP for having both, and for taking the leap.

For those who don?t know me, I?m 31 years young. Compared to the crowd I usually race with, I?d say I?m on the younger side ? though I swear I have the mindset of someone in their 60s. I race a 1966 Chevy II and have a deep love for classic cars. I?ll always choose cool factor over pure performance if I have to pick.

That said, as someone from the younger generation, I strongly disagree with the common narrative about what it takes to get younger people into class racing. If you don?t believe me, go to your next test-and-tune or no-time event ? at least here in Eastern NC ? and see how many younger folks are out there.

Racing is alive and well. Young people are still car people. Performance still matters. But most aren?t interested in spending $50K?$100K+ on a car that runs 9?11 seconds. The reality is, we?ve collectively made this sport incredibly expensive to enter. When someone can spend $15K?$20K on a 2000s+ Camaro or Mustang, throw on a $1,500 induction system, and run 8s or 9s in a street-driven car ? that?s a tough value proposition to beat. Heck, in drag and drive event, the NA winner was a modern Camaro running in the 9's. And the more budget friendly cars are slower, then a modern stock car.

And let?s not forget the kids coming out of Junior Dragsters. Many of them end up in dragsters or door cars, bracket racing for more money, with lower entry fees and fewer restrictions. I?m 100% committed to class racing ? I love it to my core ? but the financial barrier is real, the reality is we are slower ETs for more money. Most young people just don?t have the disposable income to spend big money to run 10s when a factory car can do it with minor upgrades.

Just my two cents ? take it for what it?s worth.

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Which is exactly what I did.


This has been the case with late model Stockers for quite a few years now. I think that it started with the Corvettes, then the GTOs, followed by all the Challengers, Mustangs, and Camaros. Each of those started with getting a chassis approved.


This paragraph begins with the answer to your question...


You know this as fact? Or, a little speculation on your part?


I would expect the same consideration that other OEMs have been given.


I have gone out of my way to make sure that these parts are available. NHRA is a bubble within a much larger space. The Supra has a growing enthusiast market. Also, you don't need an OEM part number on a legal aftermarket part.


I don't know him either. I don't see the disrespect in my comment or Brent's. We just added some history.

It's a shame that so many people try to take something like this and turn it into a them versus us thing.....

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Tom, Unless I miss understood GUMP, I thought he approached the process just like me and my uncle. I doubt he built the car and then got with NHRA and Toyota and pushed it thru.

As far as glossing anything over, I wasn't trying, just telling Rory there has been a process for years.




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

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If the factory horsepower rating is at 382 like I saw previously posted, NHRA will put the rating at 325 for a starting point. That is 85% of the factory rating. That is what was done on previous new applications.

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I feel cheated, I need some HP off!! My combo is at 90% LOL



Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

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Brother preach. I've never worked so hard, or spent so much money to go 12.60 in my entire life. It is fun and certainly its own thing, but ridiculous from an outsider's perspective.

I <3 class racing tho, it's the people that make it great.

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Since you chose to respond and digest my comments towards BrettV part by part, allow me to respond in kind...And might I add that your division of my comments is a great way to dilute and diminish the ability to formulate a cogent response....As well as obfuscate my original thought process...You have answered direct questions like a DC contractor...That is talk about everything, yet not answer the question asked.....Hats off to you Sir!
But certainly you can see that answers of this type naturally lead to speculation.
I'm not interested in starting a flame war, but I do see some glaring discrepancies in your statements throughout this thread. So it would be the polite thing of you to actually provide some consistent straight answers


You say that is what you did? What I asked was for BrettV, and that was that he did not build a finished race car with one off specific parts like transmission adapters BEFORE approaching the manufacturer for submission of a specific combination. You chose to respond with a word salad about chassis approval.
The Velde's saw a dealer ordered package that they would like to race, and approached NHRA through the manufacture's channels to submit it for approval...Right?
So your statements seem to conflict each other on this one point.Looking through your own comments, you admitted that the car was not in the guide when you constructed it. The car seems to be finished and has still not been put in the guide as you alluded too. How is that exactly the same?...Oh wait...you didn't answer that question...It was all about chassis approval.
I know....Your rebuttal will be..."That's the way the Dragpak, COPO, and (newer) Cobra Jets were done. Those are manufacturers submissions from a performance program....So what input and influence did TRD have on this project?
But based on your own statements here, it's not the way your (this) project was accomplished. In those cases an automobile manufacturer approached NHRA, and submitted a proposal for a completed factory/aftermarket race car package.
So then? Who initially approached who for the inclusion of this race car? Did you approach NHRA? Then work with Toyota to finalize specifics? Or did you approach Toyota, to request they work with NHRA....Minor points to be sure, but it's important to understand how you managed to accomplish such a task easily enough to build a complete race car without any foreknowledge.


This?....And yes, I know all about the 1968 Cobra Jets....And all the vagaries involved.
So your answer is...BBBut FFFFord did it in 1968...
Maybe your memory is better than mine, but exactly how many Cobra Jets were raced in STOCK Eliminator at the 1968 NHRA Winternationals??? Don't answer with how many raced in any specific other year...Or how the rules currently are. You brought up the Cobra Jet rollout first.


What I do see with my eyes is that Toyota seems to have an impressive amount of influence on Motorsports wherever they choose.
What I do know as a fact, is that Toyota is the largest automobile manufacturer in the world.
What I can speculate on is how that status might affect the decisions of NHRA towards some classes the "the Association" views as glorified bracket racing.

That is an interesting way you framed that statement...." the same consideration that other OEMs...."That seems to allude that the vehicle in question is in truth a Toyota project with you as a subcontractor....
Or...Here's one of those disruptions I referenced earlier...Because you bypassed my original question.
A yes or no will suffice, was this car constructed prior to approaching NHRA for it's inclusion in Stock Eliminator? Your previous comments tend to say no.


Yes I know that you don't need to have an OEM part number......But The specific part has to be generally available, that doesn't mean that a one toff CNC transmission adapter is considered legal just because it's already on a race car. If I chose to purchase one tomorrow, where could I buy this transmission adapter?


Again I was responding to Brett, who completely (much like you) bypassed the content and intent of the question that Rory had...Take the time to look up his original question.

And them versus us? I'm unsure if that was a direct referral towards me, but I was always under the assumption that stock eliminator was for automobile combinations that were dealer/showroom available. Them them versus us, actually started when the manufacturers pressured NHRA into accepting COPO, DragPak and CobraJet combinations into Stock Eliminator.....That's when the US...little guy who wants to upgrade his street car, became the THEM...those who can afford to bankroll that one big expense to purchase a "store bought" race car. I'm not going to say where I feel you fit in...

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Bret, I'm not disagreeing with you directly...see my comments to him. That approval process seems to be somewhat fluid, sometimes it happens rapidly, some times not.
But based on the existence of a car that seems to be complete before it's in the guide....GUMP admits it is not yet in the guide, and alludes that the specs are not yet finalized. Seems to be contrary to how the process has functioned in the past. Then we can add things like the transmission adapter, that currently only exists for that one car....I know you understand the mental gymnastics behind how FEs ended up with C4s...It only steepens the slippery slope that Stock Eliminator maintains a tenuous grasp on. Based on some of that "logic" it would be perfectly legal to use a Metric GM transmission in something like a Fox body Mustang stocker.

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Tom, I totally understand what you are saying and Stock isn't anywhere near what it was intended, but what in life is? Everything has evolved and the horse left the barn many moons ago. No going back, believe me I WISH THEY WOULD, But..... why stop progress in a sport we all love. I LOVE the passion coming from all these guys that disagree, makes the sport better. Like I said in a past post, these new cars have many manufactures and it all started getting watered down when they stuck 904 guts in every Stocker trans. LOL I gotta go work on this junk FFFFord, spend twice as much $$$ and work twice as hard as the Chevy guys and now maybe Toyota's too LOL.





Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon