Re: Original hemi dart information
Liteweight, I got a question for you, do you think that there is a possibility that there were 'two' 68 Hemi Darts called Wildfire? I ask this because I recall someone here having a old conversation with you about that car posted earlier in this thread, they either owned it or once knew of it or something like that, but I don't recall all the facts that they stated about it...Anyway my question is did you ever notice the blue & white Wildfire Hemi Dart had a full loop 5 point roll cage in it, and the red & silver Hemi Dart looks like it had a three point roll bar in it...didn't Hennessey say it had a three point roll bar originally, and the guy that stripped the paint on your Hemi Dart thought the car was Red & Silver...so who ever owned this '68 Hemi Dart then, why would they switch back to three point roll bar after repainting the car, does that make any sense to anyone? Here are some old before & after shots of the Wildfire L023 Hemi Dart...maybe it's just the angle of the photo in the last pic, and it's not showing all of the 5 points of the roll cage...but it sure looks like a three point roll bar to me.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...FirstPaint.jpg http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...irstPaint2.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2377/wildfire03.jpg |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Here's one of the '68 Hemi Dart called the 'Cookie Duster' in the background...
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...06546223_n.jpg |
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Re: Original hemi dart information
[QUOTE=Hemi Moose;349625]Liteweight, I got a question for you, do you think that there is a possibility that there were 'two' 68 Hemi Darts called Wildfire? I ask this because I recall someone here having a old conversation with you about that car posted earlier in this thread, they either owned it or once knew of it or something like that, but I don't recall all the facts that they stated about it...Anyway my question is did you ever notice the blue & white Wildfire Hemi Dart had a full loop 5 point roll cage in it, and the red & silver Hemi Dart looks like it had a three point roll bar in it...didn't Hennessey say it had a three point roll bar originally, and the guy that stripped the paint on your Hemi Dart thought the car was Red & Silver...so who ever owned this '68 Hemi Dart then, why would they switch back to three point roll bar after repainting the car, does that make any sense to anyone? Here are some old before & after shots of the Wildfire L023 Hemi Dart...maybe it's just the angle of the photo in the last pic, and it's not showing all of the 5 points of the roll cage...but it sure looks like a three point roll bar to me.
I'll chime in again here, with more questions than answers, but here goes --- Daryl got these photos from Tim Wing one of the first owners of Wildfire. I never personally saw the Blue and White paint job since I started work there in 1969. But Hemi Moose has raised a valid question, why the rollbar change? Also the wheels on the car were not on it as I remember it, they ran steel wheels in 1969 and later photos show Cragar's on the car. I know that paint and wheels can (and were) changed rather simply but I think there is more to the story. I believe there were 2 Darts called Wildfire, somewhere there is a photo of one with Wildfire lettered on the front fender which is a totally different car than the one from Town and Country Dodge. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
i'll also jump in! in aug i posted about meeting the owner of the wild fire dart at a local cruise in the canton, ohio area and that he said he was pretty sure liteweight had contacted him when daryl had called his fax # over and over. his ownership has been verified by several people i trust, although i'm not positive he was the original owner. does this location jive with "know" owners? 4 hemi abodies from my area that i know of, although 1 was a body in white car that per rules could not be raced in super stock as it wasn't "factory ". i won't name people without there permission but i will try to get that if wanted. dave p.s. where has paul been hiding?
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Re: Original hemi dart information
Here are some older pics of the Wildfire '68 Hemi Dart painted red & silver and what looks like Cragar 5 spokes on it...or perhaps another name brand.
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4879/wildfire01.jpg http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7813/wildfire02.jpg |
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http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...6-racedart.jpg |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Hemi Moose,
Thanks, that is the photo I was thinking of. Notice the tail panel/trim on that car. The photo of the red and silver Wildfire with the Cragars was taken sometime after the car was sold and taken to Ohio. Notice that the lettering on the rear quarters that said "Town and Country Dodge" has been removed by that time but the rest of the car looks as I remember it. (except for the wheels) |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Hemi Moose
That's something I never noticed before. Good eyes. You've convinced me enough to look into the possibility again. The engine compartment picture is of particular interest. 1- is the aformentioned 3 point bar. Yes,my car had that style of bar in it when Hennesey purchased it. 2- the fuel regulator location. My car has those holes in the approximate location repaired. 3- the rear center hood pin. This is something I can't find the repair on my car. I asked Hennesey if he had repaired this area & his response was no. I'll have to double check. 4- Mechanical tach mount. Same as what was in my car with cable going through the defrost vent The blue & white dart does look it has a 5 point in it. The red & Silver definately has a 3 point. Strange, like you say to remove it to install a 3 point. The first paint was the blue & silver then painted red in 1970. The silver remained. I spoke with the original owner of the WildFire awhile back, Tim Wing.I wrote as much as I could about the conversation, but I can't find it. Time to call him back. More to follow, after I go through all my emails & info on WildFire. liteweight Quote:
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Re: Original hemi dart information
[/QUOTE]Also the wheels on the car were not on it as I remember it, they ran steel wheels in 1969 and later photos show Cragar's on the car. I know that paint and wheels can (and were) changed rather simply but I think there is more to the story. I believe there were 2 Darts called Wildfire, somewhere there is a photo of one with Wildfire lettered on the front fender which is a totally different car than the one from Town and Country Dodge.[/QUOTE]
Hey Jim Thanx for the input. This is how you probably remember WildFire. So Tim never ran Cragars while he owned it? liteweight http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...O/Wildfire.jpg |
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liteweight |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Lots of footage of red & silver Wild Fire Hemi Dart in this vintage video:
http://youtu.be/UMHXitkbMWc http://imageshack.us/a/img138/5254/wildfire.jpg M68 P.S. I just noticed: blue & white and red & silver Wildfire Darts both have the same Dodge Superbee painted on quarter panel. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
So who currently owns the '68 Hemi Dart called Wildfire?
I also recall one of Mark J's earlier posts saying it wasn't a real car... Are all 3 photos of the same car or not? |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Ok here is what I remember about the different wheels on the car, and please understand that I'm really reaching back in my memory. First understand that the owners were not well funded - they were dealer mechanics not rich guys so unless a sponsor funded the purchase of extras like special wheels, they could do without them. I dimly recall something about them losing the use of the ETs or Americans that were on the blue/silver version of the car hence the steels went back on. I remember better them bending the offset in the long shackles so they could put a larger slick under the car. They had ordered wider rear wheels (steel) to accommodate the larger tire and I remember they had to get a special backspacing so the tires did not protrude beyond the fenders. I have a total blank regarding the roll bar, but it is possible that they removed the 5 point when they sold the car and the new owner put in the 3 point. To directly answer your question about the Cragars, no I don't remember ever seeing them and I believe they were installed by a later owner. Actually I don't remember seeing a color photo of the car (in the red/silver paint) from the time when Tim and Bob owned/raced it. All the color photos I have seen are from a later time (1971 and later) including the engine compartment shot.
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Hi found two more are they real ones?
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page 148 scatpack dart was owned and driven by glen warfel jax. fl. him & wife dana have a mopar salvage deal going still.raced at gainesvill fl in 70s &80s there was also a sox& martin hemi bo29 owned by tom shively at about the same period constant winner he lived in ocala fl.
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I knew I saw traces of blue paint on this thing before... Look real close by the drivers door striker... . |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl,
Just a point of interest, I was looking at the 2 B+W photos of Wild Fire to see if I could tell what rollbar set up it had at that point in time and I realised that the guy that painted the car is in the picture. If you have the one that shows the car with Bob leaning over the engine on the driver's side and Tim on the passenger's side you see a man standing behind Tim, he is missing his left hand, that is Finley Jackson. Mark J has the photo if you don't have it. |
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Thanx man for your continued interest in finding the history of my "unknown soldier". I really appreciate it !!!!!! I've looked all these pictures over many times searching for something I'd missed. I haven't seen the blue before, but I think I see where you mention. Honestly, I don't think we can trust some of the colors that come through in these old pictures. There is alot of that blue/green hue in them, so I really can't say for sure there's anything there. The rest of the jambs look to be the original black that was applied by ma mopar in 68. The black on the rockers was applied by Paul Pittman when he painted it white for Lou Vignonia in 85. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...Bought1985.jpg All it's previous colors were eventually blasted off previous to being restored by Tim Hennessey. I have a couple pictures on a PDF file that were sent to me by Paul Pittman of the car after it was chemically paint stripped previous to it's white paint in 1985. I've been tring to convert them over to a jpg file, but have been unable to do so. They clearly show the Lakewood 3 point rollbar in it, but again it's very hard to see any colors on it, just bare steel. More to come on Wild Fire liteweight |
Re: Original hemi dart information
I was just going by some of the comments and interest as well as the questions posted by other members on here...I guess the next step is to contact Tim again with some follow up questions.
- Who did he sell the car to again, and which state did it go to, was it Ohio. - Who was it and who did that owner sell it to after he sold it...was it to somewhere out East as seen in the old photos... - There was even some talk on another website that some guy named Joe owned it and raced it at a couple New Jersey tracks... - Did he repaint the car Red & Silver or not, or did the previous owner. - Also wonder who put the Cragar Super Tricks on it...were they swapped out from the 5 spokes or not. You said in the past that Mark J said the Wildfire '68 Hemi Dart exists...so who currently owns it. . |
Re: Original hemi dart information
moose the super tricks were on it when my dad got it. the car was also red and silver ,it was stripped and painted white by paul pittman while my dad had it. i was told that al massarino (correct spelling) from ossening ny owned it before or when my dad got it. massarino is supposed to be a cousin of charlie castaldo.
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Re: Original hemi dart information
Just suppose someone found an old red and silver Hemi Dart (perhaps WildFire) and removed the graphics, lettered "Charle Castaldo" (forgive the spelling if its incorrect) on the door -- presto-chango, one tribute car. Hmmm. The reason I would even suggest such a thing is that Daryl is sure Charle's cars are accounted for, yet Jimi remembers Charle's name on the door of the car when his father was working it. So for both to be correct it would require a third car that was done up as a representation of a Castaldo car.
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Re: Original hemi dart information
I don't know if anyone seen this but in that You-tube video of the Wildfire '68 Hemi Dart, if you read some of the comments left there's a guy that says he has "lots of photos of this car" from back then...maybe worth a shot getting in touch with him thru his You-tube account...maybe he has some close up shots especially of the interior/dash/gauges of the Wildfire Hemi Dart to compare. :confused:
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Today you will see alot of tribute cars out there mostly because the originals are long gone. Back in "the day" I don't think the term had any merit tho. I have to believe my car was indeed silver & red because there's Lou & Jimmi Vignonia, & Paul Pittman that remember it that way. There can be only so many red & silver original hemi Darts from that era. But it doesn't mean my car was that color in the late 60's or early 70's. It coulda been painted just previous to Vignonia's ownership also, yes?+ liteweight |
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great idea. I just set up an account, but you can't contact the commentor directly. you gotta reply to his comment & it's not workin for me right now. I'll try later liteweight |
Re: Original hemi dart information
On the topic on the LaSalle, Quebec Dart..That was Gene O'Neil's car. When it arrived in the North it was still lettered with Gene's name on the car. At that time we had already purchased Gene's '65 car from Ed Miller and were running it in B/MP
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Stongray67?feature=plcp then on the right side of the web page you will see an arrow next to by Stongray67. Click on it and a menu will open up and you have the choice of either Block User or Send Message. Good luck. M68 |
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Open Microsoft's Paint program or any other image editing software you have installed on your computer. Using Paint program as an example since it is installed on all Windows-based operating systems, open the program, go to the menu bar at the top of the page, click on Edit; a menu will drop down; choose Paste, and viola, the image you have copied from the .pdf file now appears on the screen. All that is left for you is to save it. Click File on the menu bar, then select Save As from the drop down menu; name the file, select .jpeg (MS's Paint program saves image as .bmp file by default) by clicking on the arrow to the right of Save as type. All done a lot quicker than it took for me to collect my thoughts, type-up and edit my explaination to you. :) M68 |
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Daryl,
You are correct, tribute cars were not the thing back then. However Jimi indicated that one of Charle's relatives had owned your car and they could have said "hey let's make this thing look like uncle Charle's car". Ok I'll quit speculating. :) |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Thanx M68
message left with Strongray67 on utube. Just gotta wait for hopefully a return Yup, it was probably quicker to convert those pictures than typing your description on how to. So here they are. Never seen shots of my car when Lou Vignonia commisioned Paul Pittman to strip & paint it white. According to Paul, these were taken in 1985 http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...manMay1985.jpg I think I'm seeing something red inside the trunk. Maybe a fender or door? also look around the trunk keyhole, there seems to be some red there also. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...nMay1985-1.jpg liteweight |
Re: Original hemi dart information
OK This is the information I have been able to compile on Wild Fire through different sources
-Tim Wing purchased the car new through Town & Country Dodge in Farmington,MI. He picked it up from Chrysler. Car is an auto -Bob Alton partnered with Tim on it -First paint was Blue & Silver -Repainted in 69. Silver was masked over & blue was repainted to red by Findley Jackson -One of the engines was a Ramcharger built mill -Sold in 1970? to Jack Schneider from Canton, Ohio. Don't know if this was the owner at the time the video was made of it. -It then sold again to someone out east to someone that owned a Sunoco Station.Supposidly ran the car out of Cecil County Raceways. - It then kind of vanishes. There is rumour that Bruce Meiuls (from Rod Shop Dodge fame) partnered up with Larry Morgan & purchased a red & silver Hemi Dart. It was disassembled. -Supposidly Carol Fink from Finks Used Cars purchased it & is still owned by him today. Is it the same car??? I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that Wild Fire is not in my shop. What leads me to believe that??? There is a center hood pin that was installed at the center rear side of the hood. I have looked very close at mine, even on the backside with mirrors, & I can't find any traces of that hole being repaired on my car. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...FireEngine.jpg http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...FirstPaint.jpg Next???????? liteweight |
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- Has Cragar Super Tricks with the Formula One Super Stock tires on the front. - Looks like an aftermarket trans cooler up front. - The three point roll bar is clear as day, the drivers seat is not an original piece and missing passenger seat. - It doesn't seem to have the long rear shackles on it. - Has the four hood pins on the original truck lid, but no holes visible of it ever being drilled for a rear trim panel. - And yes it does seem to have red paint in those areas mentioned. . |
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(also see if you can post some of those other small pdf file photos that you have of other L023's from your earlier posts) |
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These are the only 2 pictures I have of Cookie Duster. They weren't PDF, just saved as, from ebay auction & ????. I tryed resizing, but they just lose they're clarity.Anyone ???
If you look at the C piller on the first picture it looks like it has a SS/B designation. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ttachment2.jpg http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...edusterssb.jpg Welcome to my nightmare liteweight |
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There's a guy on ebay that sells old race photos , he may have a duplicate of the first one...
And that last photo of the Cookie Duster is a Bill Truby photo...there has to be a larger original one of it out there somewhere, anyone. . |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Any possibility there was a twin(not a tribute) Wildfire Dart? (or any other that might be yours)
Overbooked pros used duplicate painted cars with other drivers from time to time. There was only one Ronnie Sox but there were several "Sox&Martin" cars on the tracks. Just wondering. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Just a clarification Daryl that may help in tracing your car's past, am I correct in stating that prior to 1985 the car was tubbed and the narrow Dana axle installed on relocated springs? The fact that the trunk lid is held down with pins indicates the removal of the hinges/torsion springs when the stock wheel houses were removed. It is interesting that such a simple thing as an extra hood pin could be such a positive indentification point. I can't imagine anyone but the most fussy restorer even trying to repair that hole in the cowl, there would be no point to fill it, so I am convinced that your conclusion about WildFire is correct. I would still like to know what happened to that car, but that is secondary to your quest for the history of your car.
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Possible, but not likely. As J Schiels has previously posted Tim & Bob were a small race team with very little backing.They were mechanics in the Town & Country Dodge dealership. When I spoke with Tim, he didn't mention a second car. A second car probably isn't likely liteweight |
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