Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jim you are correct. The car was mini tubbed. The inners were replaced with tubs & placed against the frame rails, but the outers were left original. Tim Hennessey removed the inners in 1986 & reinstalled original tubs with a filler to still accept a large tire. He also reinstalled all the hinge parts including the torsion bars so the trunk lid is 100% functional.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...l/IMG_0012.jpg

On a side note, the forward sections of the quarter panel wheel well were also opened to accept taller tires & remain to this day.
Tim Hennessey did an over the top restoration on it in 1986, but I can tell you just about every repaired mod that was done to it. There's very little I don't know bout this thing, cause I've taken it down to a bare shell, & redid everything cept the paint. It wears the same paint that was applied back in 86.
Your right. Something as minute as a hood pin is the difference in finding a cars background. Since these things were old war horses & are 44 years old there is just very little documentation/ pictures on some of these individual cars. You gotta find the small things & compare. I've been searching for bout 10 years for this things history. I think I am now kinda polished in it

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

There was no second car, no possible way.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

lightweight have you ever seen proof that the brooks lee car is the castaldo car ? proof of restoration , pictures etc.?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Something that everyone, including myself is assuming on this thing is that the red & silver that was on it previous to being chemically stripped in 1985 is the same paint that was applied in the 68-70 time frame. We've all been comparing pictures from that era.
Now, remember these were race cars, not show cars. They got beat on. They changed owners many times. What's the chance of this car having the same paint on it in 1985 that it had in 1968?? It's possible, but not likely. Specially since there were wheel well mods that were done to it sometime in the 70's. I am convinced tho, it was silver & red when Vignonia's owned it because of the head count that remember it that way.
Super Stock kinda took a dive in the 70's, & as such there just aren't alot of pictures from that era. Alot of these cars just weren't competitive & they became yesterday's headlines. My car in particular went to bracket racing, so the chance of finding a picture of it in the 70's is probably pretty slim.
I think where I need to concentrate on is locating the owner who had it when it was bracket raced in the mid to late 70's. I gotta find info specifically about the 1977 NED Bracket Nationals. I have contacted the NHRA Guru, Bob Frey to do some digging on this, & am waiting his reply. Anybody reading this have some info they can help me with?. There was a brochure for that event, but I haven't been able to source one yet. I'm thinking there might be a name attached to a 68 Dart that would have been in print.
The other way of doing it is to weed out all the cars that are known/ documented to exist today & start searching for the unknowns. This way would be very difficult tho, as each car would have to be individually sourced. And if Mark Janaky, with all his contacts & vast experience hasn't been able to do it, I probably won't be able to either.
But, anyway here is a list of original Hemi Darts that the whereabouts are not known

Mary Ann Foss ( Go Hummer) OH
Manhatten Speed Shop
Joe Patel (MA)
Bob Banning (VA) stick car ??
Ken Bradley (TX) Second THT car. stick??
Johnny Rivers (MN)
Cookie Duster stick car?
Robert Alton/Tim Wing Dart (MI) WildFire
Tom Spanbauer Dart (WI) (went to CA in about 1970)
Atlantic Dodge (CA)
Colonial Dodge (MI)
Bob Banning Dodge (MD)
Denny Kilbane (OH) (may still be in OH)
Dave Price (CA) (Butch Leal)
Grand Island Dodge (NE)
Cicero Dodge (NY)
The above is from a list of the first 50 cars, & since mine is in that build frame, it'll be in there somewhere. There could also be a couple others due to lack of documentation & hear say, but these are pretty much concrete as of 06.
If anyone can help in ID'ing these, MAN, WOULD I APPRECIATE IT.

liteweight

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...l/HPIM0611.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

jimi
I have the same pictures & documentation from Mark Janaky & others that I have provided you with. Mark is very thorough in CORRECT documentation. If there's a question bout something, he'll tell you. If he doesn't know something, he'll tell you. Mark DOES NOT deal with hear say or fiction. If it ain't so he'll tell you
Brook Lee's car IS Castaldo's auto car.
Castaldo's 4 spd was crashed, stripped of usable parts & crushed. There are NO if's, ands, or maybes about any of Castaldo's Darts. There were only 2 & mine IS NOT one of them.
With the pictures I have, & speaking with many people, including Charlie Licatta (who wrenched on Castaldo's cars & has a VERY sharp memory) there is ZERO, 0% chance of my car being ANY of the 2 Castaldo cars.
Jimi we've gone through this many times.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

calm down i was asking a question because i am interested to know about the other car if it is documented with proof. i am not starting this argument again with you you have your feelings about it and so do i,the difference is i was there, it was in my barn at my shop i used to druel over that car, it was parked right behind my 62 dodge dart wagon in the same barn where i used to work on my car all the time,you need to chill the f out and deal with the fact that some where in all of this i just maybe just be CORRECT!!!!!! i do know that my father had a car that said charlie castaldo on the doors. i think that we have proven the fact that your car was at my shop in the 80's that there are similarities in things that i remember about it but i still want to know what car it was that my father owned that had castaldos name on the doors! maybe parts from the crashed car wound up on another car i dont know and i dont think at this point we ever will, did you ever get the chance to speak with ken wright? about al massarino? he is convinced he knows your car, its where abouts that my dad got it from and alot of other things. like availability of pictures and such. i sent you his ph number months ago.

i know it is hard to tell with theses cars but what is the approximate build # of your dart? 1, 25 , 50? i was told that charlies first car was # 50

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I wanna see a match race between Jimi's '65 A990 Belvedere & Liteweight's '68 L023 Hemi Dart...lol :p

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Judging by the first restoration attempt done to this '68 Hemi Dart where they chemically stripped the paint off the car (as seen in the previous photos) this tells me that there was "layers of paint" on this car already!!!

Next, in that list of unaccounted L023's have you even checked to see which one Al Kirschenbaum owned because he had a brand new one in '68 but didn't own it for very long...maybe Bob Frey knows him.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Here's another old ad with Arlen Vanke's '68 Hemi Barracuda...

http://www.bangshift.com/assets/imag...20Ads_0026.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Kirschenbaum was from Long Island? And he has a brother as well if I remember correctly. Don't they have a very large collection of mopar parts and s

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Could Charlie Castaldo have had his name on the doors as a sponsor? He did have a business and Al Mossarino was his cousin ,,so this could be possible later after his racing career for Castaldo to stay on the scene through sponsoring his cousins dart,he obviously had a love of hemi darts as he bought a second one after crashing his first one.The car also had trunk pins,so did hennesey take the time to fill in those holes drilled for the studs on the trunk opening,?They had to mount them somewhere ,is there any signs of that repair?After all,Hennesey did an all out resto taking out tubs,sectioning factory ones to look stock,smoothing them to look factory,filling roll bar mounting holes,replacing the trunk lid or fixing holes from pins ,so after all that do you really think he would have left a hole in the firewall with no pin or just stuck a needless stud in after doing all the other detail work perfectly,the wildfire dart is on you tube videos racing at atco at some point in its career as documented on film which puts the car in the right area ,so if this car is not the wildfire dart then who the heck has it?Or CLAIMS they have it ,and is it documented beyond any doubt,after all this Castaldo connection story was fact years ago too!!!

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

according to an article he wrote for mopar action kirschenbaum owned the speedwin automotive car while working at the dodge dealer in new york. it's an interesting read, he ordered the car in and when the owner pressured him about it he started making payments but never got the title. joe jill then came in and took ownership of the car. now as the saying goes "don't shoot the messenger" lol. dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Lightweight,
A good friend knew Joe Patel well and almost bought his car. I'll ask if he knows where it went. I talked to Bob Banning a while ago and he gave me the name of the guy who bought his stick Dart. I couldn't get his #, but the lady who has something to do with the East Coast Drag Meet down south knows who owns the car now, but couln't divulge the name. The other Dart Bob Banning sold was the AT car John DeRosa owned and I almost bought from Fred E. I'll go through my notes this weekend.
Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Still looking for more pics of my Dart. It was bought from Mr. Norms by Richard Shipley from Baltimore, MD then went to Joe DeSantis, then to Ohio. I really need some color pics of the car when it was in this paint scheme. Thanks in advance.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Another black and white pic.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I know it has been on this thread more than once that the first Castaldo dart was wrecked, stripped and crushed but I was looking at a magazine article titled "Not just another pretty face" by Cliff Gromer on Frank Spittles dart and the article says"A very original piece, the dart had suffered a crash early in its career, but had been repaired with the correct fiberglass body panels that were still available from the factory at the time. After it was fixed, the Dart was socked away in storage and never raced again. Goes on to say Frank bought the car in 86. Cant tell you what magazine the article was in because the pages are loose but it does say they also did an article 12/89 featuring a Hemi Dart originally owned by Charlie Castaldo. That would make one think both his cars are still around.
But, like the internet, just because you read it doesn't mean its true.
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I don't remember it.

I just reread the article and nowhere does it say Franks car was ever one of Charlies. Its late. Guess I better go to bed.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Castaldo's stick car
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ldoDarts-1.jpg
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...d%20BO/8-1.jpg

Charlie's auto
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...d%20BO/3-1.jpg
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...d%20BO/4-1.jpg
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...d%20BO/5-1.jpg
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...d%20BO/6-1.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I can say that about the mass media and what they broadcast on TV and radio and print in newspapers and magazines even more so.

M68

http://imageshack.us/a/img706/9938/1...earlyprost.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/1716/9...dgedartssb.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img27/705/ste...dartprostk.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/474/ex1...rtprostk1v.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl,
I went through some of my notes. Joe Patels Dart supposedly went to Michigan in the early '70s.
The Bob Banning stick Dart was sold to Dave Lewis, a New Port News, VA racer. His son may own it now. I talked to Nancy Wilson of the East Coast Drag Racing Reunuion, and she could not give me the owners # because of privacy issues.
I got a call from a guy in Chicago who has owned one of the Grand Spaulding stick Darts since '85, but does not want to sell it.
BTW, I'm still looking to buy one.
Dave

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jimi, Al Kirschenbaum wrote articles & road tests for various magazines back in the day...and I believe I read the story that the L023 ended up being the Speedwin Hemi Dart now that my memory has kicked in.

On another note, you seem to keep bringing up the Charlie Castaldo '68 Hemi Dart that you saw in your dads shop back then, and I don't disagree with what you saw back then, but I do have few questions if you don't mind...do you remember what year this was roughly, and it was more that likely Charlie's second Hemi Dart, the one he bought off of Tom Crutchfield...you have said in some previous posts that the floor was cut out for access to the 4 speed...also do you recall if this car also had radiused wheel wells, that were normally larger that the factory Hemi Darts came with because it sure sounds like it was Charlies second car that you saw back then...unless you can remember any other details about it?

.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

M68, nice shots...there are not too many of Reid Whisnant 'Super Dart' around...heard it was one of Bill Tanners old '68 Hemi Darts.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...06479095_n.jpg

http://www.motorbase.com/uploads/pic...dodge_dart.jpg

http://www.motorbase.com/pictures/co...arracuda-c.jpg

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...088-Hagen1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_x6qvEX_kZG...+72-768871.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

In post 1915 the engine photo of Wildfire's first paint job the fender tag is in the photo but not readable, I wonder if Tim still has the print or the negative? It sure would help to know the VIN of that car.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

VIN isn't on the fender tag for 68 and earlier cars. Those have the order number instead.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Here is a shot of the WildFire Dart.The late Don Ownes built the motor in the car and is seen here driving it after pre race Tech.The Pic. is from Englishtown WCS.Not sure of the year 1971-74.Don told me at the time that the car was sold it was picked up in a car hauler
by the Rod Shop and was going to be driven by Dave Bortmen.


Terry

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Now that's a nice clear shot of the Wildfire '68 Hemi Dart...with lots of little details.

http://classracer.com/classforum/att...4&d=1350940075

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Does anyone know the story of this L023 '68 Hemi Dart...is it still around.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...cagoDart-2.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

As previously posted the Vin isn't on the tag, only the Body number/ or what is called the shipping order number. Like the Vin's on these first 50 cars, the shipping numbers should also be sequential.
Unfortunately the pictures I have are poor quality & I doubt you could get enough clarity to read the tag. Thought bout that one tho. Thanx Jim

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Nope, not Charlie's second Dart either.This auto car was copper & silver when he campaigned it in Super Stock. When Charlie changed the car up to A/MP for 1970 he also changed it's paint to red & yellow with the flared rear wells. He installed a stick to be competitive in A/MP & did cut the trans tunnel out of it for easier trans service. He also cut the trunk pan out between the frame rails.
Charlie sold this car to Ralph Costello in late 70, early 71 so he could concentrate on his Pro Stock program. Ralph painted the yellow sections on the sides to the same color red that was on the rest of the car. Replaced Charlie's Castaldo's name with Costello. Ralph raced the car in MP for a few years using alot of Castaldo's cast off/ outdated parts. Ralph eventually sold the car to a street racer, Danny Giaquinto in the Philly area. It was then sold to Ralph Conte.
Tom Lee eventually purchased it & still owns it today. He has confirmed seeing Castaldo's colors & flared wheel wells when he rebuilt the body on it. The quarters were so rough he had to replace them, but decided to leave the "as production" small wheel openings on it. He has also confirmed other mods such as the trans. tunnel, trunk, wheelie bar mounting, fiberglass bolts etc.
This is Charlie Castaldo's auto car, no if's, ands, or maybe's or buts.

The only Dart doors that would of kept Castaldo's name on them would have been from his crashed stick car & they were not repairable, even by todays standards. The other set of doors that had Charlie's name on them from the auto were candy apple yellow & red when Castaldo sold it to Costello.

I have pictures of all the above to verify my statements. I have spoke to the crew who worked on Castaldo's cars on a daily basis back then. I have spoke with the current owner of Castaldo's auto & have personally looked at it.
I have done my homework on Charlie's cars. Castaldo only had 2 Hemi Darts. There were no clones, there were no look alikes.

I honestly don't understand, or know how it would have been possible for jimi to have seen red & silver doors on my car that read Charlie Castaldo. He says he's correct.--- I just don't know how it's possible. I want to believe Jimi. Please explain.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanx for sharing that picture Terry. Great never seen before shot

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Sure would like to know some info on this one. Looks like a real LO23. Really clean looking car. Anyone know the race track??
Is this the Dick Smith car??

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Dave any update on Joe Patel's car

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

That looks like Great Lakes Dragway. No idea on the Dart though, sorry.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

jimi
Al Mosarino has passed on. I have spoken with Kenny Wright a couple times & he remembers very little about his Uncle Charlie's Hemi Darts.
My car is one of the first 10 cars built serial number wise.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Wow! Thank you Terry for the Wild Fire photo -- my new desktop!
Jim Shiels

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks guys for the clarification on the fender tag info. Those tags were handy when we had to order interior trim parts (like when we received new Dodges with Plymouth steering wheels). The car's DNA was on those tags. But since this thread is a living history lesson I would like to know Daryl how you identified the fender tag for the Landy stick car (the tag that Landy's mechanic sent to you) without the VIN being on the tag? What other info did you use?
Jim

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Morning Jim
There are 2 locations of body numbers on these 68 cars. One on the rad cradle, the other is on the DS trunk rail under the weatherstripping. These shipping order numbers ID the car to the tag

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Castaldo's Auto July 69 Dover

liteweight


http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...Castaldo69.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I have seen this pic before and CANNOT find it now. I believe there was also another car, perhaps a big bodied super stock with the playmate tag and similar paint.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

If this one was built from an original that was wrecked....which one was it built from?

http://www.continentalclassiccars.co...products_id=43

http://www.continentalclassiccars.co...-Hemi-Dart.jpg