Re: Original hemi dart information
Hemiss ( Mark J ) Another question to consider. Its been established that the Costello's picked up their first dart in Detroit, then crashed that dart at Englishtown in late 68 or early 69. He then replaced that dart with a dart owned and driven by Tom Crutchfield / Palmer Dodge in Indy / Kokomo area. That car was a bronze color, I saw it race @ Indy in 68 and also @ Edgewater.Was the first dart completely destroyed? Was the car rebuilt or repaired? Was another dart used to make this transistion.Is this why some of the above members claim to have seen 2 different darts at the same time. Mark J , you might be able to clear this up. Or maybe still a question.
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
This is the same car I am talking about - DeFrank had it went tp Lyden & Johnson in PA. I think that Jim told me they bought it from a guy named "Pistol" Pete who had the car at Ron Butler's shop for some work. I don't know any earlier history (that I can prove) than that. Thanks, Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
hemiss ( mark J ) I do not think we are talking about the same car. Again a different mag picture shows 6 of the DeFrank and Cohen cars. The all red cuda has a gold stripe at the top of the fender continuing all the way along the top of the doors and quarters. Again the other picture has the same paint and striping with MacCallums name on the car. The other DeFrank and Cohen cuda sold to Lydon and Johnson was a golden / yellow cuda with red side panels all the way down to the lower fenders and doors / quarters. I quess the question is who owned the all red cuda first DeFrank or MacCallum? Also have seen pictures of the Lydon and Johnson cuda and they raced this cuda without changing the paint only the lettering. This has always been a common practice with racers.
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
This is where the debate begins. I spoke with one of Charlie's crew (i belive it was Rick Rickman) who told me that the car sat out back the shop - they took some parts off the car but he didn't remember what happened to the car. He said we could have junked it or it could still be out there somewhere?? I have pictures of the car being picked up off the track with a wrecker at E-Town. The roof was buckled quarters, doors were crunched pretty good - I thought I was told that the oil filter leaked/blew (Like Ron Mancini's crash at Indy years later) and the car ended up upside down on the guardrail. By todays standards fixable but in 1968 the car was a junk racecar. You could buy another one for WAY cheaper than fixing it and that is what Charlie did. Remember these cars were not that valuable in the 70's or 80's and were not selling for $300,000.00 at B-J auction - it was just another old racecar. The argument is that this car may have been repaired or that Charlie had another car. Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
You guys may want to get ahold of Dave Wren, He has owned a least ten of them over the years and used to make trips back east to buy cars to help fund his racing so he may be able to fill in the blanks on a few of them.
P.S the SS/AH car he runs now is not an original. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
I spoke with a crew member that wrenched for Castaldo for much of his racing career, Charlie Licata. He confirmed that Castaldo had only 2 Hemi Darts. The 4 spd. that crashed in E Town, & the auto which he purchased while he was still in the hospital recovering from the crash. He never had both cars at the same race at the same time. The Auto car is the car in which he won the SuperStock Nationals at York in 69. This same car was later converted to Modified Production in 71 or 72 & ran with the name Fun City Flyers on the doors.They tryed running it once with a clutchflite but was unsuccesfull with it,so they put a 4 spd. in it.The car was eventually sold to a fellow by the name of Ralph Costello. Licata doesn't know what happened to the car after this. The 4 spd. car had all the useable parts removed from it, & then it sat behind the shop for a while. Eventually it was hauled off & crushed. OUCH!!!!
Paul, You certainly have my attention with the car that your father purchased, especially the part about him selling it to a couple brothers in Mt. Kisco.There is alot of coincidence in this. But, you mentioned that it had regular quarter panel openings on it, & my car still retains it's original quarters. I will have a look at mine to confirm this at the first chance I get, probably tommorrow. Liteweight Daryl |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
I will certainly give this a try also. Do you have a contact # in which to get ahold of him??? PM me please if anyone can get this for me.Again,many thanx for the input that's being put into this, as any lead might be the one I'm looking for to find the history to this unknown soldier. Liteweight Daryl |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl,
I think Mark J posted that when Tim Hennessey got the car, new quarter-panels were on the car (standard units). He replaced them with Hurst replica units. I think thats what he said. As for the Mt. Kisco apartment complex. Barker Street is an area where that sounds. Several gear head guys lived in that area. A short walk to Ritchie Mattoni's Professional Machine Shop, off Maple Avenue:) As for Charlie Castaldo, saw him alot from 68' thru 72' at Dover. Not so much after 73'. Lived in Scarsdale, near the Yonkers border. Yes, he had only (2) Hemi Darts. The two car reference that someone mentioned pertains to 1970. Charlie had the Hemi Dart and a 70' Hemi Challenger that ran in SS/DA. The Dart, I think ran in Pro/Stock for a very short period in 70' (The 68' car qualified for Pro/Stock in 70', and in 71' if you retro-fitted the front grille and light hardware with 69' Dart units). I know Charlie was at the 70' S/S Magazine Nationals at US30 York in May 1970 and the NHRA SummerNationals in July, also at York. PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark J,
Didn't... DeFrank & Cohen purchase the "Gentle Ben" car (Idaho-based) as their first Cuda?? Back to Charlie Castaldo, some confusion for those who follow. Charlie had (2) cars, but (3) variations of paint and lettering. The first car (SS/B; 4-speed) was reddish-brown with silverish center section. The roof was silver and the hood was reddish-brown. No lettering on the scoop. DODGE was lettered on the "B" pillar. Westchester Automotive, Mt. Vernon was lettered on the front fenders, and Speedwin Automotive was lettered on the quarter-panels. A Hooker Header emblem was on the lower portion of the front fender. CHARLIE CASTALDO was lettered on the door horizontally, but the letters were slightly staggered. OH, a little heart with TLC was placed on the lower quarter-panel, in front of the rear-wheel opening. Joe Jill did the engine. Not sure on the make, but the pistons were lightweight, not the standard heavy-slugs. (Brooks or Duffy). Crankshaft done by my old friend, Jerry at Storm Crankshaft, Mt. Vernon, NY. Who's got that engine??? P |
Re: Original hemi dart information
4 Attachment(s)
Paul,
A couple of tidbits: First up are two more shots of the Castaldo car at Island. Rick Rickman is "holding the car up" in one of the photos. Also, since these cars were from the Westchester/Dutchess/Putnam area, "For Your Viewing Pleasure", I have included shots of Peter Faucetta's SS/DA Cuda (A Sox&Martin-prepped car), and also the K/SA 273/235 67 Valiant post sedan of Jeff Seligmann and the late Joe Kenney. Both were taken at the Summernationals in 71. Why Joe ever was involved in a Mopar I will never know! Bill Rolik |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Could this be the ex-Castaldo Dart?
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4879/wildfire01.jpg http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7813/wildfire02.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2377/wildfire03.jpg If not, whose car is it? M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
Is this the same guy? M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Charlie's first Dart...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5072/cc1o.jpg http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6684/cc2b.jpg http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/655...vscastaldo.jpg Charlie's second Dart (1971 photo). http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5126/cc1971.jpg M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Hi all
I am what you call a "Lurker" and do not post. Been a member for quite a wile, but this thread brought me out. I have never been fortunate enough to own a race car. So I do not post on here. What I am is a very big FAN of Sportsman racers. I am also a model car builder and I use places like this to gather my reference material to build my models as accurate as possible. Something you guys should know about us model builders. We research the heck out of the subject matter we want to build and you find that the model car boards have some of the most knowledgeable race car historians anywhere. We also are collectors of huge magazine collections. Well I just happen to be a very big, long time fan of the SS/AH class cars and the history of the LO-23 and BO-29 cars Well, with that said. I got on here today and found this post. I got quite excited to find that the car that starter of this thread owns is a car I want to build a model of. Have wanted to for many years. All because of this magazine that "Liteweight" needs to get a hold of. The Dec 89 issue of MOPAR Action. That is your car on the cover. This issue has all of the Photos and stories that were in the Nov. 68 issue of Cars Magazine with the photos that Charlie took when he picked up the car. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...esign/hemi.jpg I hope I am not out of line here and maybe you all might already know about this magazine. If not. I have seen it many times listed on E-bay. Liteweight I would love to get in touch with you at a later time about getting more info on your car. Like I said. I have wanted to do a 1/25th scale model of your car for years, and Revell Model Company is about to make that much easier in their 2010 kit line up with the issue of a 1/25th scale model car kit of a LO-23 factory Hurst built 68 Hemi Dart. I love this board and especially all of the photos that are post. Great stuff for a guy like me that cannot build the real thing so I build little models of all kinds of Sportsman Drag Cars. Thanks Matt |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Welcome, Matt!
"I hope I am not out of line here..." I don't think so. "and maybe you all might already know about this magazine." I bought that issue almost 20 years ago (yikes!) and still have my mint copy. M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Jim Keyes who has a 68 Barracuda, SS/AH , and a 68 Hemi Dart ! He and I talk at least 2 or three times a week, even though I live in Wi, and he lives in Mi.! Yesterday ( Sunday) we were talking about Maple Grove, and I had asked him about his 2 Hemi A body cars as to the history of them !
This might help some of you from the Upstate N.Y. area ! His Barracuda came from a racer in upper NY, It was a 4 sp , car and was sponsered by Ply dealer ! It was called the Mountain Ply, he gave me the persons name , which i have forgotten, but it was an Italian sounding name ! This is the same car Jim still races today . The Dart he bought was a recovered Dart, which was stolen in the Detroit area, and Jim bought the car from the Sheriff sale ! The Dart had never beem tubbed , so it is now painted like Jim's Barracuda , also like original except for paint ! Hope somebody can figure out who belonged to what ! I'll talk to him later today, maybe get more info ! The name of the Cuda I know started with Mountain , Pretty sure it was Ply.!....... Later John |
Re: Original hemi dart information
The Jimmy Keyes car sure sounds like the Centolanza Brothers car, because I believe their sponsor was the Mountain Garage in Highland Falls, NY. It is near West Ponit.
Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
Re: Original hemi dart information
I thought the Guy that owned mountain garage owned the car. When he died the wife
sold the car not to the centolanze bros. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Matt, This was a great article that, along with that great little red car of Liteweight's, reintroduced the 68SS cars to the mopar resto crowd, myself included. It is a little confusing in that it features two cars (lil red and Chuck Comella's) and in reality some of the pics in the Hurst parking lot were taken by Jack Thomas when he picked up his car. Jack has shared many incredible pics from his career documenting picking up, prepping and racing his LO23 dart as well as great pics of the Yankee Peddler awb. Jack is a wonderful guy that I always look forward to having a visit with...he had this great idea that he proposed to Dr Z/Chrysler to build a limited race edition of the new upcoming Challenger model for Stock Super Stock competition. Good idea huh!
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Great stuff guys!
Where to start - the Wildfire Dart was originally from OH went east and is back in OH. Great pics Bill - I always liked the Faucetta Cuda. John - how are you doing? Jim Keyes Cuda was originally from ND - went to the Carolinas - not sure how but it ended up in the Baltimore area - and that is where the Centolanza's got it - Jim bought it from them. Jim's Dart was a local MI car. I sent him all the info I had on the cars - even the paperwork from when it was originally bought in ND - VIN #'s match. The A/MP or C/Gas Costello dart is Castaldo's 2nd Dart. Paul, it sounds like you are doing some digging - Does anyone know where Bill Davitt is - I heard that he was running a resturaunt - he was a Mopar racer that would have been around mt Kisco at that time and might know something about the Dart. Tony Saraceni who owned Bill's old Duster told me about the 2-scoop Lido nickname - no real meaning - he said that that is when Rasin Bran cereal had the "2-scoops of Raisins in Kellogs Rasin Bran"ad campaign refering two the 2- scoops on the Dart and Lido was just an Italian nickname. He verified that he raced with the guy and they went to E-town and that the car was a Hemi but he said that the car was not fast and the guy wasn't serious about racing. I have Tony's phone number if you want it. I spoke with Richie Mattoni (and his brother) I also have his phone number. Ed Smith - the guy who I think owned the Dart lived at 37 Ward Ave - can't get ahold of him. Last I could find the Chief of Police in Mt Kisco lived there until he retired?? E-mail me and I can get you some more info if you feel like digging - you are closer than me! lol! Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Paul- Since the last time I was on here, Paul came up with a possibility of his father owning my car back in the 80's. I have not seen a picture of that car yet,but he mentions that it had the regular Dart quarter panel openings. I double checked on my car, & looked at every possible area in which they would have been replaced or repaired. I now know 100% that these are the original quarter panels that this car was manufactured with when new & Hurst modified in 68. Paul, I would still like to see some pix of that car tho,if you wouldn't mind.
M68- Quote- "I remember years ago seeing an actual photograph taken by a former friend at Raceway Park (circa 1975) of a brown (candy apple red?) 1968 Dodge Dart that ran in D/Gas with Costello Bros. on the doors.Is this the same guy" Yes this is the same car that Ralph Costello owned, formally campaigned as the auto Castaldo car. The Wildfire car was a possibility for me about a year ago,but as Mark J. has stated,this car is in OH. Great pictures!!! I haven't seen some of them before. Matt- Welcome to this forum!!! I am not exactly a regular either,but,sure am glad I posted this thread here.The amazing info that is coming out of it is great!!! Hopefully I can find the origin to this unknown soldier.Thankyou for the info on that Magazine article,but, I do have several copies of it already.It was done shortly after Tim Hennessey restored this car back in the 80's. I am honored that you want to build a replica of it in 1/25th scale, & I will help you out in whatever way I can. PM me with your email address & we'll see what I can help you with. Maybe,you can help me out with the Model Car forums you belong to, by asking some of these race car historians about this cars origin . Mark J-- Good to hear from you again my friend. Glad to see your back in the hunt for this thing.If it weren't for your persistance & knowledge, it sure would make this an unsermountable task.( As if it wasn't hard enuff already). The Landy car was a breeze compared to this thing !!!! Keep it up Liteweight Daryl |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl and Mark,
Got to hurry hear.......Work, If you want, post your address, and I'll send you photo of the black Dart. It may or may not be Daryl's. But for one thing, it must have been someones. As for the Hemi engine that came with the car. It was definitely an original factory Hemi unit. The 12.5 -1 pistons (heavy factory-slugs) standard-bore were part of the assembled block. But were fly-cut for the valve reliefs. The camshaft was an Isky unit, the same recommended by the factory (ie; Dick Landy). The cast iron heads were not molested, (no porting or hogged out). The only modification to the engine was the Milodon deep pan and sump lines, and engine component balancing. Looks like the same engine from 68' (That is a little bizarre). How I remember this from 1980 or so, I have no idea. More info on Bill Davitt later. Kudo's to Bill on the Jeff Seligman 67' valiant 273/235 (K/SA) Talk to you later today Paul |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Don't know if this helps but in the 60's the only MOPAR dealer I remember that had an elevator was Blue Ribbon Garage in Bridgeport,CT. This is in southern CT,{Fairfield County} & was about 25 mins from Bill Flynn's shop in West Haven.It was in the downtown area & storage in basement & service on 2nd floor.
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
SAL,That info is for WJ on the missing Gene O'Neill Dart.Blue-Ribbon Garage, Bridgeport, CT.Also, trying to research several others;Fisher-Lowe, West Hartford, CT.Chorches Motors, Manchester, CT.Norwalk Dodge, Norwalk, CT.Campbell Dodge, West Haven, CT.G & B Motors, Stamford, CT.Colonial Dodge, Bridgeport, CT.Whipple Motors, Hingham, Mass.It looks like every one of those places tried to get one, but only one Lottery-winnertheir.....Lucky GenePaul
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Paul;
I'd really like to see that pix of the black Dart your father had. I have sent you a pm with my email address.I also sent you a message on your private email address. Was there any silver on that car somewhere that you remember ??? Daryl |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl,
As for as the Dart. my father got it black and thats it they way it was sold. He did nothing to the car. I wish I had checked the car out in detail. But I didn't. It was at my parents home, not my home. My father only had it about 3 months. I'm doing somemore digging, but maybe the Murphy boys did the next project on the car. Paul Oh, Mark J (Bill Davitt stuff on the next post). |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Paul,
You know I am interested in hearing about Bill davitt and the Pomona Dart. I will send my address. Feel free to call- we might be able to peice this thing together. Mark |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark,I talked at length with Daryl today. About an hour or so. Gave him a ton of info.Since there is no way that Daryl's car was Charlie Castaldo's second car (possibly Tim Crutchfield's; Palmer Dodge car), it looks like another direction.I sent photo's to you and Daryl. The Black Dart that my father had for a brief period in80' or so, doesn't look to be Daryl's. The Dart my father got, had the rear quarter-panels(factory modified) replaced with standard 68' units. But still the mystery continues.The odd thing, the Dart my father got had the rear-end narrowed for the slicks to fit under the conventional rear fender-wells. Daryl's car had a narrowed rear too. UGH!!More questions than answers.Paul
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl, Check into Chuck McJury's Playmate II. It was an automatic car. Chuck was fromupstate New York (Schenectady area) 30 Minutes west of Albany. Raced atLebanon Valley Drag Strip, which was about an hour east, away from his home base.Lebanon Valley is about 30 minutes, southeast of Albany. NHRA track. Paul
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
|
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
I talked to Chuck a few times and met him twice. At the Hemi Reunion he was able to drive another Hemi Dart down the track - he said when he pulled 2nd gear the owner, in the passenger seat, about fell out of his seat!. Chuck told me that he ordered an automatic car but when he picked it up they gave him a 4-speed - he said he always raced it as an automatic though. Chuck's car has not surfaced but it is rumored to be still around - stored in a garage - I have gotten this from 2 sources and they both knew specific things about the car that makes me belive that they are not BSing. Dell and I have identified 70+ of the original owners of the 83-4 Hemi Darts that were supposedly built. I know some purists insist that there were only 50 cars made but I have paperwork from Dick Maxwell ordering 30 additional Darts to be built after the initial 50. I am putting together a list of Darts that are missing and crossing out the known 4-speed cars and cars that were changed to 70 models fro P/S (many were) and see what we have left. My guess is that the car was not originally from the NE but I could be wrong. Does anyone have any ties to the Manhatten Speed Shop to find out about the Dart that was run from there? I know of another Dart from PA that was not raced by the original owners and sold to someone in NY - they took a check, it bounced and they repo'ed the car - it had been raced and the engine was blown. This car is currently accounted for but I have wondered if the Manhatten Speed Dart was the same car as it appears that it had only been run for short period of time. Jimi, I hope that you are able to find some pics of the Dart when your Dad bought it - this could help. Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Jimi,
I noticed that your Mom? had some pictures posted on the Dover Dragstrip site of Tony Chickory's Dart. If you find any other Dart or Barracuda pics could you post them also? Thanks, Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
First time I've ever seen one of these in Stock! M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Are we sure we don't want to change the name of this thread to;
Mysterys, Myths and Misconceptions.. This thread looks like an Italian Kitchen. Many hands stirring the wooden spoon in the Pot-Of-Sauce (or as some say; Gravy). At least in the end, the Sauce will be perfect. More to come. Bill Rodik on your post #171 and Mopar68, what are you doing adding a nice Jewish-boy like Jeff Seligmann to this thread. Oy vey, we need some Bagels this morning...;) Paul C |
Re: Original hemi dart information
1 Attachment(s)
Well, since the Seligmann car was from your general area, I decided to throw it in. Looks like his drag racing career was short-lived!
As far as the "Italian Kitchen" scenario, what better way to stir the sauce a bit more than to add a shot I took of Carmine Rotunda at E-Town at the beginning of the Pro Stock craze. All I can say about the fashion in vogue at that time is "Yipes Stripes". Bill Rolik P.S. That is Bobby Yowell with his back to the camera. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Quote:
M68 |
Re: Original hemi dart information
JIMI "V",
Only good intentions here. Just trying to figure out where the 68' Dart my father had for a brief period ended up. I am trying to back-track all avenues, including the Mystery Mount Kisco car. Can't put my finger on it, but one of these Dart's may have been at Bill Davitt's shop on Adams Street, Bedford Hills for a short time (75' or 76'). I was there alot during that time picking-up or dropping off cylinder heads (foreign stuff). I'm really going out-on-a-limb. Can't be sure. Paul |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mopar68,
Had to add a little humor, to break-up the monotony. Bill Rodik, on post #197. Are you sure, that looks like Gregg Allman with the long blonde hair, talking to Sonny, Elvis Pressley's bodyguard. Thank You, Very Much:) Before more Hemi stuff. I forgot to add. Yes, Jeff Selligman. Ran at Dover, same time as us. Back in 70' or 71' that car ran in J/SA, while we were in K/S with the 273 Cuda. The Valiant was about 120 lbs. lighter, and ran in one class lower. In 72' it was re-classified to K/SA, we went up to L/S. That photo in (National Dragster) must be from 72'. Jeff had an speed parts store in Danbury, A & S Performance. Also, liked food, alot of it. Nice guy, very large. If I recall, the car ran around 14.50's or so. Won quite a few trophies at Dover, no competition in that class. Only a 66' Belvedere 383/275HP 2-barrel (12.00 - 12.49 wt/hp factor). Not too many of those 67' 273/235HP cars made. PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
It is definitely Bobby Yowell, and not Allman, Johnny Winter, Edgar Winter, or Ted Nugent (The Motor City Madman). I have photos of his car from that day (I wonder if he still has those pants hanging in the closet). And I think this may have been the time period when Brooklyn Heavy was involved in various race activities. I had heard a story about a match race at E-Town (as part of the two cars on time trials), with Carmine driving, against another group, winner take all. The rules of the race were "No Rules". Apparently, when both cars were staged, Carmine left before the tree started down. I was told that the interpretation of the "No Rules" meant that there was no need to wait for the green. As far as I know, the loser paid off.
You are right, this has nothing to do with 68 Hemi SS cars, but since I have no more vintage 68 photos to post, I had to "stir the sauce" some more! LOL! Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:25 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.