Re: Lack of integrity
 

No vin to prove the year model ,not needed so claim any year ? just asking...

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Plain and simple. It's a factory race car. All the best parts Ford and Mopar could muster up are in these cars. Yeah it's cool and I am glad they did however in MY opinion they do not belong in stock. Are they going to let the old Hemi Dart/Cudas in stock? That was a factory race car. Even in SS they will be untouchable for quite some time. Guess we gave up the right to an opinion or vote with NHRA long ago......


BP

Re: Lack of integrity
 

I doubt you will get many answers on this one. LOL
A whole lot of racers just stuck their heads in the sand LOL
There would be a bunch of mad racers if NHRA checked vin numbers.
And most of them would not be DP's or CJ's

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Pure unadulterated B.S., plain and simple.

People here are still complaining about the 98 LT-1 F body deal, and that was twelve years ago.

All that was, at worst, was a 97 model production and emissions certified street engine in a 98 model body. There was zero performance advantage in the "swap".

If GM were to let someone smart into the their parts bin, and GM were to submit the stuff that could be built, the moaning, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments would be deafening. This place would sound like a herd of long tail cats in a room full of rocking chairs.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Yes, and you and others still compare these new cars to L-88, ZL-1, and L-72 cars, which were street legal which was originally a requirement for Stock Eliminator. The truth is, until the rule was recently rewritten, most people assumed cars had to be street legal production cars to be allowed in Stock Eliminator. And for the most part, that was implied, if not outright stated, in the rule book.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

SS/JA and SSDIV, even though I don't have a dog in this fight, I certainly believe to complaints would still be loud and long even if GM threw a ringer in...'ya see, boys, it's the blatant unfairness that rankles most of us.....see Shaul rendered helpless, see Popora selling out, or howzabout Larry Hill having the gonads to make the western swing with a very good A/SA car, and once the stars were aligned for a big Stock Eliminator Victory (perhaps), a misfactored A/SA takes him out

Who's gonna make another circuit with an "at risk" Stocker, or for that matter will Paul Adams or Paquet travel to face the SS/BA Fords.....didn't we all enjoy watching Adams INDY race, and Hill's swing....that's gone baby...

What don't you guys get about shafting your existing co-racers? geeze

Hey, I love the new cars, and the mfgs support, but put 'em in the correct class...they are FACTORY EXPERIMENTAL......period!

Re: Lack of integrity
 

I agree completely! And please don't take them out of Stock. I would love to have one in the other lane. I think it would be easier to fix their classification in Stock with the FX category for the current cars and the combos that are in the wings.

Super Stock would be a little trickier. I guess you could have the natural extension for them as SS/FXA, SS/FXB, SS/FXC, etc...., but how would you handle the GT classes? That is a tough one to figure out.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

This is not the 1960's, 70's, 80's or 90's and gas is no longer available for 29 cents a gallon. Do you consider 1998 as a recent rules revision? Times change, rules change, and nothing stays the same as it was. Like it or not this is 2010.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

The Cobra Jets have serial number tags where the vin tags are normally located. The 2008 and 2010 bodies are completely different, like the difference between 68 and 69 camaro.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

I think I asked this before, but what was the rule change that allowed these cars to be mixed in with the traditional stock eliminator cars?

Don

Re: Lack of integrity
 

The first page of the rule book under rules for Stock Eliminator that states"

OEM may apply for inclusion of any special production runs into the official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a run of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedent.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

That is not a change. The NHRA is allowing these cars to compete in stock in some convoluted reasoning under the current rules.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

You are right it is 2010 and this organization is still conducting business as if it were the 70's.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

We are successful, and I'm working harder. Got two class Wallys, two class wins at the SportsNational Open, and an over all runner up. And moving in to run Super Stock, too. :eek:

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Didn't I read that you have a 1998 LT1 car?

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Yes.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

So, guess which rule allowed your combination to be allowed! (I have two LT1 1998's)

Re: Lack of integrity
 

Gump,

I was waiting for you to post something like this. You are making this too easy. And instead of guessing, please state what rule was changed then and now. There wasn't a change then and even now there has not been a rule change. The NHRA is not adhering to the existing rules. Again, please do not infer. Be specific on the rule change.

I never claimed there was a rule change like dwydendorf did. I never asked that the Cobra Jets and Drag Paks be kicked out of stock just asked them to be classified properly like the LT1's were and the 1998 LT1 were already in the FIA class by the time they came out. So that kills any argument about a performance advantage of those cars period.

Are you suggesting that it is only a paper car? Well, that says you. There has been at least one other person besides myself that has laid eyes on one. I saw one on a used car lot in Ft. Worth about 5 years ago.

There were two things that caught my eye. One was that I like the way they look and two was that it was undervalued by about $2,000. I asked the dealer what was wrong with the car to reflect the price. He said that "no one wanted the car without the all aluminum engine." I had never seen or heard of an iron block LS1 so I asked him to raise the hood. I thought well I can see why no one wants it. It has the slower LT1 in it.

This was a low mileage original one owner car. I mentioned that I bet most didn't want it with the slower engine and that was why the kid that owned it was trying to sell it (consignment). He was tired of his buddies walking all over him with their LS1s.

I wasn't in racing at that time and had no clue what I was looking at. Knowing now I would have snatched it up and sat on it.

I started racing two years ago when my car was rated at 341 hp and now it is 346 hp. It is a fair car in the class and not the fastest when I bought it. I have worked and worked on it to get it faster. No amount of time or money will get my car to compete with factory race parts or power adders.

I still want to race the Drag Paks and Cobra Jets, but either factor them properly (immediately and at least get it close) or the easier solution is to put them in their own category.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

It took 12 years for your horsepower to get where it is today (recent horsepower on your combo is dated 1-1-10) but yet you want NHRA to immediately refactor the CJ"s and drag pak cars. Well guess what, I started racing 40 years ago, and there have been combinations that have outrun my combo by a bunch ever since then. It is a part of this game, like it or not it will allways be there. Either get used to it, build one of the new cars, or go do something else because it will always be there. The system cannot react as fast as someone can come with a new killer combo. Its is not fair that the same rule that allowed your car to run stock, also allowed the CJ's and Drag Pak cars.lol If you find a copy of the 1996 rule book you will find that the paragraph about the 50 car rule is not listed.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

I am not even going to ask it. You are dense! It took 12 years? Where were the LT1s for all but the first 3 years??? They were in their own class to get the horsepower adjusted! Exactly what I and others have been asking for this entire time. And it is even in the post that you quoted me on.

How long have the Cobra Jets been out? We are working on three years. Why should they be treated any differently than the LT1s that you keep referring to? Heck you have an example of how to handle it. Just as the rule book states, prior approvals do constitute a precedent (I am paraphrasing).

Which means they don't have to put them in a separate class, but it makes the most sense like the did with the FI cars.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

They weren't over 100 hp soft going in either.

Re: Lack of integrity
 

As I said in a previous post, 12 years, 75hp!

The new cars are 100hp short to begin with. Does this mean it will take the NHRA 25 years to get them in line????

Re: Lack of integrity
 

This is a change from your last post that I quoted. How is this supporting your argument?

Re: Lack of integrity
 

You were correct then and you are correct now. Plus you have to note that the vast majority of the time for the horsepower adjustments were done in the FI classes (which is still active in IHRA).

25 years sounds about right, but it is ongoing as long as they keep making up new crate motors at Ford, Chrysler, and/or GM. Come on, 12.7 to 1 compression ratio for the 5.7 Drag Pak! What computer controls are in existence that can run that car on the street with pump gas?

What am I thinking. I forgot about diesel. :cool:

Re: Lack of integrity
 

So there's no room for a newbie unless he has a bottomless wallet or special connections forn F/X, errrrr I mean factory built racecar?

Re: Lack of integrity
 

It must be a real slap in the face to CJ and DP owners. That there state of art cars with all the currant technology cant make as much HP as a old 427 chev from the 60s. Imagine the embarrassment of buying a drag race specific factory car from ford or Chrysler and its advertise HP is less than the window sticker on the show room model. I wonder what the salesperson says to close that deal?

Re: Lack of integrity
 

He says "its advertise HP is less than the window sticker on the show room model."