Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Do you know it for a fact that Ford or Chrysler paid the NHRA anything to get these cars in the guides?

As far as economic impact, all those parts have to come from someplace and somebody has to put all that stuff together. There are hundreds of suppliers that have been positively impacted by these cars in what are otherwise hard times.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Furnishing support vehicles and sponsoring races.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Maybe someone can tell me exactly where the money went as I have no idea or proof that it even existed ..............

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Shoot me for saying it but the new cars are the best thing to happen in a long while. Hopefully they will bring in some new blood with $$$$$$$'s to burn and it will force some to make a decision they needed to make a long time ago. This game is changing, adapt or fade away this is just a continuation of the changes requested again and again. Valve springs,any valve,fuel cells,wheelie bars you got it all now just lay down your 100K plus and go for it Bucko. Don't give a Hoot who's ball it is or where it's at for that matter just the facts Mam!

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Bang ! Bang!

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

He claimed a "heads up " lose and a "class final" lose. Whatever, this is not about Larry, never my intention. Bottom line, lots of talk about how the "new" cars have tons over the old school carbed stuff, and tons left to go. How about just race them on Sunday with your shoe polish for the BIG prize.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Any time people like Larry or us face the new cars, it's a lot more likely to be heads up than it is to be a shoe polish race.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I have asked it before -

Just how many races in the entire year during the eliminator are "heads up"?

I guess I will have to figure it out myself by going through all of the DRC stuff and figuring it out the hard way - by seeing who ended up in later rounds and looking at ladders

I know I can do it but I do not think it will make any difference to those that want it to be a big percentage of the time

My guess is less than 5% of the time is that to much?

In a round of 75 - 2 would be 2.6%

If I total all of the pairs from all of the rounds and divide by the number of heads up - would that be of any interest to anyone?

I doubt it but it will keep me from being bored again for a while

Since I am a computer genius - I will try to scan and OCR the information and import it into a spreadsheet.

Otherwise I will just sit and hand enter it - may not end up being perfect but it will be very dam close


:-) peace

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Ron less than 10%. That is something I was keeping track of in 2010

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Yep, waaaaaaay less! You might see 2 in 7 rounds at a national

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Quick math would say in a 75 car field there would be 69 races

With one every round that would be 6 - or roughly 8.7% - I do not think it is that high

So you have a 91.3% chance of avoiding a "heads up" - I will take those odds

Of course there will be those who say ONE is too many

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Pulling to the starting line one just one time when the disadvantage is so great there is absolutely zero chance of winning on a hole shot, because they don't have to try to cut a light, no way they will go red, if they don't hook they won't slow 1/2 a second, is one time too many. Anybody that says that is OK either has one of those cars, runs a class low enough they will never face one, or is simply a fool.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Now you know how i felt before these new cars. I'm just slow ,not by choice ,but by $$$ budget..... Just took my whipping whenever it came along , which was not very often....Still taking my whipping and still ticking lol........

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Situation: 41-car field. Car qualifies #1.
Rnd 1: Bye Run
Rnd 2: heads-up
Rnd 3: opponent red light
Rnd 4: heads-up
Rnd 5: Bye Run
Rnd 6: opponent red light

This isn't just a hypothetical. I've seen this exact scenario play out. In this case, having the "advantaged" car isn't worth just one round, but FOUR. It's also worth noting that these cars change the landscape of the ladder. One missed potential bye run or an errant heads-up race can be the difference not only in winning or losing a round, or even a National Event. It could determine a Championship.

Gump is right, I'm afraid. These things DO have an effect on the economy. They're so far out in left field that I can't afford to NOT build one. Considering that I race a Crate Motor car and a FWD car, I doubt that folks will look at me any differently when I have a "new" crate motor. :rolleyes: It's not hypocrisy: I'm building it specifically *because* its underrated, and NHRA has shown that they're not *going* to do anything about it. When you want to contribute to the economy as well, you can call Southland Speed. They've got all the parts you need to join the fray. And Sloan Engines is developing more than one of these, so get on the assembly line.

It may be worth reiterating that this is all Teuton's fault. :D

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

We have a winner, Ed Wright just hit the nail on the head period end of story!!!!!!!, and for the guy that said if you have not raced a cj or dp heads up you don't get a vote your full of *****. It affects everybody that races, it affects the ladders it may mean you don't get to race at Indy, or anywhere else that has a qualified field, it could change the out come of a championship but who cares NHRA doesn't

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

You say we differ because I see these cars as a problem and you don't??? Then you say the HP is way off and I guess that's not a problem for you? So now we should watch many hard working racers and friends walk away from the sport while we wait for these new ringer cars to bomb their indexs?? Nope, I don't think so!

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

How about a bounty to anyone that forces one of these new cars to get some Tuesday HP. Then you could loose but still get some compensation and recognition for putting down a run. I would help contribute, anyone else?

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

yea, and you'll get HP on tuesday right along with them

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I will use my one allowed fast run (as I read in the AHFS rules) and send em through with a little brake action at the 1250 foot mark if necessary. I doubt I could go more than 1.20 under most of the time anyway.
Tracy

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Ed how fast do you think the new car in JA is going to be? 9.80's to start and in the 60's by the end of the year. Ed

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Honestly, you guys act like there have never been heads up races where the other guy did not have a four tenths advantage

Plus, I already said someone would say - even ONE time is too many – how predictable you are

You guys who have (had) under factored cars LOVED to dominate the poor saps who could not afford to keep up with you

Move over "there is a new sheriff in town"

Gosh I love this stuff

I am not going to get involved with ED since I already know what he will post (Ha Ha)

I will say quitters never win and if you think this is the reason to quit - see ya

I am sure that will not make it any easier to win against real racers

PS

Fire away Ed and the rest of you guys that enjoyed last night's "goings on"

I am going to bed so I will not respond until in the morning

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Said by someone who truly dose not have an under factored car

I love your combination 10 HP less than me because of the Chevelle

LOL

:-) peace

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Only 5 less than yours. Mine is much thicker though...lol back

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Somehow, eventhough the "new" factors are wrong and should be "fixed", I just can't bring myself to feel sorry for all of you "fast" guys. That probably comes from me having had to deal with Bob Shaw for all of these years. (Hi Bob)

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

As far as the money. When have you ever seen NHRA do any thing like this and there wasn't money involved. It's like one of my friends said. They sold out for some courtesy cars and a few pickups. I would also say there is more there than that.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Andy's dad, no I have never ran a heads up where the other car had 4 tenths on me. Or 3 tenths, can only remember once with 2 tenths. The 5.9 DP that will be in my class is rated at 275 hp, same as the factory rating for my LT1. As I mentioned before, just let me apply the same specs as they are using to my LT1 ( back my hp factor back down) and I will be happy to run them heads up all day long.

Btw, how did your car run? You stated no more posts until you run the car.

Also, how is your alter ego lonewolf? :D

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Its Ron but - "you can call me Ray or you can call me Jay but you doesn't have to call me Johnson"

I know - but it is just too much fun to post and predict your responses

"alter ego" - nope I have never one a Wally

It is great though you think I am two people - LOL

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Greg - In my forty plus years of following the NHRA there has never been a year where a manufacturer has not been involved with courtesy cars and trucks and a very high percentage of those years were with General Motors being selected .Was there more those years too ? Last night I was asked who the four people were that you spoke of and I'm not really sure ............

My take on all of this is that the NHRA trusted the judgement of certain employees who were either not paying attention or just didn't care and by the time it was noticed there were many people with egg on their faces and from there it was a snowball rolling down a mountain that couldn't be stopped .

Just like the economy we are on our way to getting the problem fixed ..............

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I think Jack has it right. Recovery from both is going to be painful.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Ed, there are 2.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I'm a little slow Adger, two what? Or should I ask? lol

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Jack, NHRA and Ford and Chrysler new exactly what they were doing letting these cars run with the bogus hp ratings. You would have to be completely naive to believe anything else. It's kind of like politics in a lot of places, pay to play. Or some would call it bribery. Not exactly the behavior a non profit organization should be operating under.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Greg - I agree that Ford and Chrysler knew what they were doing -- but bribery is a very strong word ................

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

THE ENTRY FEE AND THE NEW CARS
i will stay home go to div and opens
class is now a joke
they will be playing with you going down the track

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Pretty sure you can count on the prices of Divisionals and National Open races
going up as well.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I don't see the cars as a problem. I think that they are pretty much the best thing that has happened in a long time. The HP is another story, didn't I asked you a question about the HP on your combination a long time ago......

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Me to! Jim

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Hmmm maybe somebody need Chevy backing :)...

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

Nah, just need the new hp factors fixed. I love the cars.

Re: How are the new cars remaining in Stock classes going to affect your racing this
 

I think this problem is really simple. But, a lot of people just argue their side instead of considering the validity of their POV.

So, let me qualify, or disqualify my "right" to even post, as some think if I don't have a
A through D/S'er I'm not allowed an opinion. 90% of my work is class cars. A bracket racer just buys the latest,greatest heads according to Car Craft or their brother in law. So, I arrogantly feel I have the right to speak. If you disagree, stop reading right here.

To those who call it shoe polish racing, you are missing what class racing is all about. If that were the case, they'd run tube door cars, or dragsters, where the headers can be removed in a leisurely 5 minutes, and nobody would ever tell you to tear down a perfectly good engine so they could look inside. This ain't shoe polish racing.

Class racing is a totally different mindset. Stockers amaze me at how fast they can go with no meaningful valve lift, undersized carburetors, awful manifolds no compression, etc. I understand the difference, but I'm never amazed when I see a 1900 lb. dragster with a 540 CI motor equipped with a 1150 on a sheetmetal intake with 400 CC runner heads and .800" lift solid rollers going 8.30's.

Stock racing has always been about getting the last drop out of a combination. Of course, money is always a factor. But, when the deep-pocket big guns are running 10-ohs and some 9.90's while you're running 10.30's, you don't feel crushed. You know that you're just out spent. Even without 14 converters, 4 sets of $3K headers, etc. your 10.30's are damn respectable.

Everybody here knows the only problem is the factors. When a top tier racer who has constantly developed and refined a '69 BB Camaro for 10 years to get it in the 9.90's suddenly has to race a brand new and yet (relatively) undeveloped combination that runs instant 9.40's out of the box, what does anyone expect him to do? Just go to work and find another 1/2 second is a STUPID suggestion. There's far more left in that new car than the Camaro. And anybody who has a clue knows this. And after all the time/money/effort, it's down right demeaning to run a flat out 9.96 and get beat by a 9.84 at 112 MPH. And not being in A through D doesn't mean you shouldn't give a damn. How long before some new combo shows up for L or M stock?

Bring on the new cars. Just factor them in so they're part of the eliminator. There's been several common sense methods to make this happen already.

I don't think anybody in their right mind doesn't like the new cars. All the negative energy needs to go straight to NHRA. I mean bitch at them so much that they hate to open their inbox, answer the phone or open a letter. Make the topic unavoidable to them.

As soon as the factors are fair this whole debate will be over and not a minute before. The ivory tower types in NHRA need to get sick of hearing about it. Sick enough to fix the problem. There is a point where anybody will take some action to stop the bitching. I know this (I'm divorced).
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Sykes brothers cylinder heads