Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Toby I just think that we should all just go out there and race.If we go red then we just pack up and try to do better next time.This thread is all bull$hit.A waste of time, more that we devote to find ways to be out there racing and maybe working to make useful inprovements towards S/SS racing.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Lets throw out all advantages/disadvantages that don't apply to the tree. Now we have a slow car that has a pretty good idea of when the tree will come down, and a fast car who has to guesstimate when its going to start coming down. If your a blinder racer, its a hell of alot more consistant when your leaving first and have a pretty good idea of when that bulb will light. Go under the blinder when your spotting someone1 sec here, 2.5 there and keeping focus is a little bit harder. In my opinion, major advantage for the slower car. Balance that out with the first to red light rule and its even in my opinion. Not yours, but obviously your in the minority.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

RIGHT.............Sure you aren't !! hahahahahaha....hahahaha......

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

ED...here you are at Post 162 on this thread !
Back at Post # 90 you said you gave up on this..........or did you forget ?? :-)

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I feel like Don Vito Corleone in the Godfather.I keep trying to get out, but they keep dragging me back.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I don't know what you're smokin', but I need some of it.... LOL!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I just don't have a dog in this hunt at the present. But if I did I thought Steve Taylor was correct and the WRLR should diffenently be used in S/P Electronics. And if it is well received there then we wouldn't be having this debate.
BTW, Bimbo is a nickname I got growing up in Ark.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Thanks for the reply. Steve was the one who convinced me that this worse red light rule was the only really fair way to run things with regard to how red lights are handled, rules-wise, but if it's valid for one handicapped eliminator (S/P), it should work for all of them.

It's a moot point though, because, as most of us agree, it's never gonna happen.

And, that's a shame...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

All this arguing is a waste of time. The REAL problem is how are you going to afford the gas or diesel to get to a race in the future. Its already $4.15 for diesel and $3.92 for gas here in the center of Florida. Its supposed to be $6 a gallon for gas and diesel will be even higher by mid summer. Diesel is the same crap you guys in the north heat your homes with minus the road use taxes. It wont be long until no one will be going to the races and the tracks will go out of business. The only ones showing up to a race will be those who have more money than brains. Do you think the tracks (bracket races, NHRA or IHRA events ) will keep paying the purses when only 5 to 10 cars show up. The cost of eating is rising. Now I know some on here have all the money in the world to pay for your toys but not all of us are in that position. Give this red light deal a rest until some of the other problems with this country are fixed.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

The real problem is what are we doing about the problem ? if all we do is complain amoug our selves then nothing will happen . i say fax your concerns to the congress every day > i know i have > we must make them act or it is our fault nothing is going right

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I do just that but how many on here do the same?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Talk about HIJACKING a thread........avoid the topic by crying about fuel prices.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I like it.Let's all storm Wash DC and take over the Capitol.Then we put class racers,fans,
nosey bodies and no names in charge.Oh wait,we have that here now and look how well
we all play together.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Just trying to get your minds off this dumb azzed topic!. LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again! 'till we get it right...
 

only to you and a few others

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Enough arguing. Just draft up a petition and tell me where to sign. This rule needs to be changed. People who say they are more concerned with 50 other rules and policies being changed all at once are right in saying so but it's not realistic. I think we should take small steps... starting with this.

Aside from the the first driver not knowing he redlit until the second driver leaves, nothing else would change. That does not change a racer's strategy no matter how you spin it. Fans would grasp the concept after about 2 passes along with some helpful voice-over by Alan R.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Fans wouldn't even notice a difference.

One car leaves, the second leaves and "HEY, LOOK, A REDLIGHT FOR CAR 1 (or 2)"

I haven't commented yet because this same old crap gets bashed around time after time.
How many freaking pages is it now?

I agree it should be worst red but just because it's right doesn't mean it will be agreed to.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Every time this thing goes around, it gains a little more support. It's now down to the point that the only people who don't think changing to a worse red light are:

1. people who race a car that is in a class that is only going to benefit from it, seldom.... like a AA/SA car, down to maybe C/S... wherein, most of the time they are second to leave.

2. people who don't see that depriving the second car to leave of its chance to red light if the first car has left too soon, is a fairness issue. It would seem to me to be, but they don't agree.

3. people who have been racing under the current system for so long that it is so ingrained in their thinking that it just seems "right" to them, in spite of the facts.

4. people who are dead-set against ANY kind of change, having been "enhanced" to within an inch of their lives.... and they can't stand the thought of "more enhancement." I don't think there are many of these. but they're out there.

5. people who just like to argue, for whatever the reason, and will continue to argue long after the facts have become clear to them. (Are you listening, ED???)

6. people who like to be on the winning side of ANY issue, and who are convinced (and are probably RIGHT) that this is never gonna happen....

I probably missed as many as I got, but it's hard to imagine, with an issue as clear-cut as this one, how ANYBODY could be against a change that would make racing more fair, and wouldn't affect ANYBODY'S driving style.... or give ANYBODY an advantage.

Go figure....

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'm #6, not #5. Not going to happen, so think this carrying on here is a stupid waste. Already said I don't care either way.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Quote Mr Bill:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every time this thing goes around, it gains a little more support. It's now down to the point that the only people who don't think changing to a worse red light are:

Well I guess you can see what's coming.Bill thinks his illusion of grandeur gains momentum every time he starts it again.I'm figuring he'll have enough believers in about 2075,just in time for the final extermination of the world by the two remaining super powers left on earth,Biafra and Nepal.Of course drag racing will only be in ancient history books,like chariot racing.Bill you're a piece of work.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Eddie.......you need to go back to the first post on this thread....and see who started it !!
You got it all wrong......... :-)
MR.BILL didn't show up until post # 18.......

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Did you think it was a waste when they changed it from "the first to break out" to the "worse break out"????

How is this different?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Ed, every time you post one of your impertinent character assassinations ("Bill, you're a piece of work") without any explanation as to why you disagree with me, it just illustrates that my contention, # 5. "people who just like to argue, for whatever the reason, and will continue to argue long after the facts have become clear to them. (Are you listening, ED???)" is alive and well in New Joisey.

This is your chance to prove that this worse red light idea is a bad one and won't work.

Now, tell me, Mr. Ed, what is it about changing to a worse red light rule that 1. is a bad idea, and 2. Why it wouldn't be an improvement over what we have, now (First red light loses, in handicap racing.)

Just lay it all out, with the reasons you think it shouldn't be done,].

I'll be waiting (as will everyone else) for your opinions and ideas on this subject. I know you MUST have them, because you've been such an outspoken and vehement critic of that new system, from day one. You have written REAMS about how it is a bad idea, without ever really revealing one iota about what it is you think about that new system that is unworkable, and why it is not something that should happen.

If I have missed something, in all your many notes, please fill me in. I have never seen ANYTHING of that nature, from you. Your M.O. has been to attack my character, logic, and generally, write insulting, baseless, grandstanding replies, the main thrust of which has been to change the subject, since you didn't have anything concrete to say about the subject...

Ambiguity and obfuscation.... look 'em up.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

So, people complaining on this message board got that changed? Care to tell me what year that took place?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill can we put a fork in it, it's done, I got my answer a while back, after talking to many racers who have had to wait and red light because of anxious moments waiting for that light to come on , only makes it fair that we should at least compensate them for that chance that they red light second.lol You've done a great job putting your point across and unfortunately this tread has run it's course. I vote for Billy Nees to replace Compton in California. When posting this tread I wasn't looking for anything except a straight forward answer and I got it. NHRA has many more important issues to look into such as dwindling racers attendance or how and where they can overcharge racers to pay for Gardner's exorbitant salary. All your points are valid but unfortunately none will be heard as they don't care.(at this moment but it will probably change once they see that nobody shows up at their races)Let's let it die. Ed, please don't shoot the messenger. Thanks. Claude

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill Dedman; Please know, I agree with you completely.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I agree also but this forum isnt the place or the way to get it changed. Write and call your DD's and mail (not email) requests to Calif. The NHRA people just sit back and laugh their heads off reading all this arguing. They have far more problems to overcome than this. The car count has dropped off, the sponsors are leaving a sinking ship as in no more class win money, the racers for the most part are mad at the enhancements, and Dallas and Compton need the money to play golf and buy booze.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I don't know about that, but it seems every time this comes up , one more person who was totally against it in the past , figures out how it would actually work.
That could be a good thing.
Keep it up the "educatin" , Bill

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

dear bill dedman...

why not pick a date for everyone who thinks this change is a good idea to send an email to thier divisional director and copy bruce and gracia....

give everyone a few weeks to get the word around, but pick a date to "petition" NHRA

now i know if you publish it here all the enhanced fast guys will immediately send in thier bull**** "we want to preserve our RIGHT to have more advantages over the slow cars" agenda but MAYBE, just MAYBE NHRA will see through thier bull**** at least once !

if not i wont be dissappointed, like i said in my post it wont ever change, but it is wrong.

anyway, do something besides beat the issue to death on this site.

jack

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Listen to Terry, this is not where you will get anything changed. Actually writing a real logical paper letter, not one filled with stupid rants about how you think you are getting screwed over. Maybe they will consider it. Might send one to IHRA if that is where you race.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

And don't forget to send a copy of that to Obama, he's great at changing things............

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

So Bill...once you get this rule to your liking, will you race a S/SS car? Is this what it takes for you to race?
What will you build or buy?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Think he's building a slant six bracket car?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I am too old and infirm to take the beating that campaigning an NHRA Stocker would provide me, given all the travel involved, to say nothing of the travel expense, BUT that is surely what I'd do if I had the physical wherewithall to get it done right, because that's where my heart is.

Instead, I have a Bracket car that I race at a local track (when I have the time, and am able), a Vortech, low boost... 10 psi) 360 Magnum-powered '72 Valiant 4-door that goes mid elevens @118 mph, and am partners in a new, experimental slant six-powered 1964 Valiant that will be a high-boost (30+ pounds) turbocharged car that is stilll being put together at my racing partner's garage. It's (as well as my other, supercharged car) run under the same starting-line protocol as a Stocker would, so I am subject to a first red light rule, just like everybody else, until it is changed (if it ever is.... doubtful.) Here are some pix of these cars and their engines, That's me in the white coat...

Thanks for your interest!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You and everybody else who has read through this looooong and drawn out subject know my thoughts on this subject.What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all.If you want this rule changed for something that directly affects you then go on all the bracket racing sites and go to the top of the mountain and rage for all you're worth.
I don't go on NASCAR sites and tell them I think having foreign car makes in NASCAR bites.Because it does.It's their deal and they do what they want.
And besides who gives a flying flock what I have to say?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

:-)
Handicap drag racing is handicap drag racing.......
:-)

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You had to go there didn't you? That's :(

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Nice Cars/engines Bill!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I wonder if Kevin Helms and Jerry Emmons would be for the "first or Worst rule" right about now. Roy Hill was the lucky recipient in both cases, and he should go to a driving school near home, or .....

Jerry

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I kinda doubt it. Emmons and Helms are experienced enough racers to realize that they do not need an excuse for the fact that they were red and lost.