Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Those gassers are way cool, but spec will be quicker then that.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

The Gassers from Greer, SC are running in the 5's (1/8 mile) ..... it's all about the show.

K.I.S.S.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Yes , it is.
It can't be just about the racers..........its gotta be both ( fans too ).
I talked to the guy with the Bone Shaker , those cars are booked in and its quite profitable.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I think those old gassers are great. Don't get me wrong. They should be part of the new econo mod eliminator. But a 9.5 lb. per cube spec will hit high 5's also. I agree. K.I.S.S. But damn, get rid of that granny tree, and run a .4 pro tree.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I believe with a clutch car and no 2-steps or RPM launch limiters, it would be difficult to stage 2 cars and be revving the engine in an appropriate safe manner and be ready for a Pro Tree.

It all goes back to the "Way-it-was" in the day.

The raw high-RPM, the 9,000+ RPM burnouts, the multiple dry-hop burnouts, the practice launch over the starting line, the 10,000 RPM launch, hitting 2nd gear in 50', wheels up in at least the first 3 gears.... this is what made Modified Production / Eliminator the crowd favorites.

Anything less ..... is pretty much boring,.... in my opinion.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

They ran the pro tree at Bethany since 1976. Sometimes spotting people over a second. 98% of the racers, and I mean racers that are, or were very big in NHRA, voted to keep the pro tree. Believe me, it's way better. I'm talking about hundreds of no break-out racers. Way, way less redlights. The only ones who didn't like it, were the ones who couldn't react on reflex.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Really guys. Why are we even discussing what will never happen? I can't even get one SS racer to try a free motor for exhibition. The ONLY way it would go, is if NHRA said it was a go, wrote it in for the following year, and agreed to stick with it for 5 years. NONE of that will ever happen. But it's still fun to talk about it.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I run the 6.0 and 9.50 stuff at various nostalgia events , I want to use my 2 step because its easier to cut a better light. I prefer that over a full tree. I can zing the engine up and react to a full tree too , but more consistant with a 2 step and Pro tree.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I agree.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy, I would gladly take you up on your offer but I think I live too far away to make viable. But I do have the right car for the class. Its Keener and Mecure's old 68 checkmate camaro. I have the old liberty prepped hemi 4spd a couple of old nash 5spds 6.50gears in a dana rear. I even have a working old msd7 box. Last time I ran the car 10years ago I used a 350 combo with brodix heads, 12.5comp, 750roller cam and a old unmodified holley tunnelram with 660s and spun it to 9000rpm and managed low 10s without tuning. I was even old school dryhops. What a blast. Sure got the crowd going.


Bruce Cameron

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

To Killingtime. I truly would assemble any one of those engines for you. If I'm a liar, the truth would come out, and ruin ANY chance we have for legitimacy. ANYONE can call my bluff. ANYONE!!!! Thanks! I do believe you . Also, we spun both the 322, and the 289 to 9,600.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Anyone post this link yet?
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=348502

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy,
If I had a car that would work I would take you up on your offer. If something can happen, I could probaly find a car to borrow.
I would like to see spec type class would be interested in running,but can't build car if there is'nt class, they started pro stock truck w/ a few to demo class.

Mike Taylor 3601

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Mike, I appreciate that. I truly do. And no one is going to build a car, just for that reason. I have zero pull with NHRA, or IHRA. My thoughts are, the only way this will ever work, is for one, or the other, or both, to get with a head company, decide what's fair, let racers know a year in advance, promise to stick with it for X amount of years, and get some local tracks to implement it every now and then, get Drag Illustrated to come, and start covering it, get all the cam companys involved, and intake manufacturers, and let it play out. I think, and that's about all I can give you, that it would be big between Ford, Mopar, and Chevy guys to build this up into a beautiful rivalry. But that's just me, and I damn sure don't run, or never intend to run the show. The beauty of this would be, we would NEVER have to change heads. And a replacement head is between 4 and 500 $. Keep most ALL bells, and whistles out of it, and make people have to drive, and think. Maybe even make wheelie bars illegal. Something needs to be done to bring the crowd, and racing actually back into drag racing.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Also, the numbers I ran with spec were with a chassis I would not allow, and with a STAR vac pump, and external oil pump. Which I think should NOT be allowed. K.I.S.S.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

How about Bodix as a major sponsor? Maybe having the Major Sponsors could create a need by NHRA for a place for this type of racing. Example Top Sportsman and Top Dragster. Bracket racing at its fastest.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Dick, the only one I know at Brodix, is Dave Rodder, and he used to donate $50 to our track, for every set of heads sold. I also know some Miller beer distributors, that are pretty high up, that sponsor a friends pulling tractor, that might do something if approached, now that Bud is out.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Dumb and Dumber question would be would old Jr Stock cars with the SMALL spec motors tickle any ones fancy?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Not as much as a modified class!! Racers just have a warm fuzzy for this class. Hope you and Randy can move forward, somehow, with it.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Honestly Todd. I'm actually shocked that NHRA, and or, IHRA have not tried to re-apply Modified with the availability of a Spec head. It's affordable, available, and easy to police. Plus, anyone who can afford a race car, can afford spec if we are careful on the rules. But, then again, that's just me.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy,

I agree with your comment on the spec head. That would be one complaint that the sanctioning body would complain about in that "We don't have enough tech guys as it is". Without a doubt, a spec head could limit the expense of extensively modified heads. From a spectator standpoint, they want to see the wheelstands and hear the sound of high RPM's. For many racers, this would be a chance to return to what type of racing they miss. I do not have the stats on racer participation but I believe it would slightly increase with the introduction of a Modified class. As Dick stated, keep it simple in what is allowed and it will help with the cost. Still expensive to do but people could afford to do it. This thread has had my attention since it started. D2 has index racing so why can't it be added to other divisions as well? Growing up, D4 was a pretty serious hotbed for Modified/Gas. I think if the powers-to-be see the excitement that it brings in spectators and racers, maybe it would put a bug in their ear. I would not have the first idea, though, of how to approach getting someone to listen to me on this topic.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

If, and when the time comes, I have, what I think are good ideas. For starters on tech. Any car that wins, runner ups, or sets a national record, must, at that time, remove a head at their expense, and deliver it to the sanctioning body, to be shipped off to say, Brodix for final say. You, if you plan on being competitive, would carry a spare head. The one you send off could be bare. Another idea. Anyone could exchange bare heads, for
$1,000 plus exchange from any competitor. Just ideas. And also, no one has the answer on how, or who to approach. I do think it needs a full year to get up and running. I would pledge to attend enough races to claim points for a title. Not saying I think I would win it, just letting all know I would participate as much as possible. There is a LOT of talent out there that would come out of the woodwork. Mike Edwards ring a bell? Ha!

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I guess the one thing is, will this idea die off or will someone take it until completion? Lots of work left to be done. Has there EVER been a definitive, clear-cut answer on why NHRA did away with Modified after the '81 season? Ed Wright, where are you??

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I'm guessing tech is why it ended. Hope not, but my gut feeling. My rule ides will never call for a head, or oil pan to be pulled. A scope can do the heads until crisis inspection, and a scope can do the clutch in the bellhousing. Spec fuel, say C12. Spec tire, say 12.5 or 13.5. One 750 carb. Stock appearing. A scope in a window in the oil pan if, I say if you want to keep out trick cranks. Just some ideas.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Sounds pretty close to the original Super Modified until they opened the door on everything. What were you thinking for max cubic inches? Four speed or 5 speed as well?

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Also, I'll furnish the P&G gauge, and the fuel check tool, and we could use portable scales at all events. Weigh after each round, fuel check final 4, and P&G the finalists.I have an oil sniffer somewhere I gave $1,900 for, I'll try to find, but we could select a committee to police ourselves. If I can't find it, we could take an oil sample to a lab, and have it diagnosed if we think someone is adding something to the oil, to bleed past the rings, or ingesting it into the engine someway. Real hard to cheat with the actual head company making the final decision. After all, they produce the head. I know comp guys are pretty intuitive, but I think we can keep one step ahead of them . Make the rules black, and white. No grey areas.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Heading to PRI in the AM. I will follow up..Randy please give your basic engine plan so I can read over it and possibly use in in discussions. Thanks.
Interest appears to be building up so begin to encourage the discussions with fellow racers who may be sitting out at this time. Maybe one or two would enjoy getting involved in the project.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

OK, Todd, I like 5 speeds because the more gears you hit, the better fans love it. But, only on the condition you Truly have to clutch, and shift ALL gears in a truly conventional way. I have ideas on how to make that happen, or make clutchless guys add 150 lbs. That will cure them. Now Dick. Here's what I've always had in the back of my mind as far as simple, affordable, interesting, and challenging. Also, very exciting, and. Here goes. Min. wt, 3,000 lbs. min. cube, 280, max cube 360. 9, 10, 11, lbs. per c.i.d. .01 per half lb. in the 1\8. .15 per half lb. in the 1\4. Brodix spec heads, Mopar, Ford, and Chevy. ONLY mods allowed are angle, or straight milling, valve job, and polishing the combustion chamber. Any valve, or limit them to steel. Just trying to save tear down problems, so bear with me. ANY cast intake, no external mods, readily available, any max. 2 " spacer, 1 750, 11 lb. 1 850 10 lb. 1 950 9 lb. No dry sumps, external pumps, no vac pump, no billet pumps, no belt drive, (negotiable on some of these, just trying to keep the cost down) Distributor in stock location only, No titanium or carbon fiber driveline parts, other then drive shaft for safety, and less breakage. Stud mounted rockers only, other then Miopar, (Think how the cam Co. would go for that) No RPM chips, must just drive. Spec box, let's say 7A. Spec 12.5, or 13.5 slicks. Cam must be stock journal diameter. Lifters also. Cranks not limited to stroke, but can not visibly be the ultimate. We'll discuss that later when I can actually explain it. Remember, tech MUST be simple. No left hand starters. 10" min diameter single disc clutch. No counter wts. No computers. No wheelie wheels. If my mind engages again, I'll let you know of other ideas. Ha! Let me know, but you get the drift.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Also, .4 pro tree only. That's about the only thing I'd throw a baby fit about. Trust me, it is WAY better in the long run. Been there, and done that. And I ain't even that good on one anymore, but the guys who are, should be rewarded. Believe it or not, I already have 3 small sponsors already lined up for me personally, and I've never had a sponsor in my life.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I've been around for a long time as a fan and racer..........
Sorry , but this just isn't very appealing........too heavy and too many restrictions. Counter weight? So what.......who cares if I'm ( or anyones ) running counter weights? Same with a vac pump? I f the budget is so tight you can't afford a vac pump then you should be bracket racing or NOT racing at all.
" 1 750, 11 lb. 1 850 10 lb. 1 950 9 lb. " I have no idea what this means:confused:
No wheelie bars?
The cars with these rules would struggle to run mid nines........if nines at all.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Hey Joe. I've been around for 58 years, and you can write the rules however you want. But let me explain. No counter wts. Less chance of someone going clutchless. No vac pump? Save $1,500 dollars. Same for everyone. It ain't like I have one, and no one else does. Also, I did one at 10.5 lbs. per cube in 08, that would run 9.80 's at close to 138 mph. A 750 cfm carburetor is rated at 750 cfm. An 850 cfm carburetor is rated at 850 cfm. A 950 carburetor is rated at 950 cfm. As far as the wt. have an 8 lb. class at 2700 lbs. I really don't care. He asked for my ideas, and I gave them to him. Pardon my *** all to hell. You write your version, and send it to him. Speed ain't going to sell this class. Competition is.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I guess I just assume everyone is like me if they use a clutch assisted trans..............I would not use my Nash clutchless. I may add a little CW if I pull the base down enough.........but still clutch assisted.

If I'm building an engine and I'm buying pistons from "whomever" and have a choice I'm going skinny and low RT. The added cost is "neligible" . The vac pumps are avilable for around $700.00.
http://www.gzmotorsports.com/CPVK102...-pump-kit.html
and I still dont understand this? 1 750, 11 lb. 1 850 10 lb. 1 950 9 lb.
Remember , a-holes , opinions and the old saying.....:D

And YES , speed will sell this class..........I can't understate that point and we definately don't agree on that.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Let me get this straight. You don't understand what a 750, 850, and 950 cfm carb is? I very much doubt that. If we want all the current bells, and whistles, there's comp. Like I suggested, send him your version. I don't want, or need to have my way. It was just a idea. Speed doesn't sell super gas, or super comp. More people will watch the SS\K class run off at the class nationals then that stuff. Also, if you want to pull 20 plus inches of vac, you will have a star pump or an equal.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Randy, didnt get out of town before had to go to work (short one employee).
Your ideas and mine are very similar. No Vac, No exotic stuff. The Heads up racing will be the attraction of the class And CHEAP. Thought an index can be assigned to this class so it can compete in SS at Points meets till it gets strong enough to be separate. I would allow Automatic with Brake if possible and give a 50 lb or so wt reduction .

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and we have this great site to express them. I don't agree, however, that speed is the driving force of this proposed eliminator. I would MUCH rather watch Robin Brown's Chevy II than a Top Sportsman car. I truly believe that the attraction will still be the high RPM's coupled to a stick shift. Randy is just throwing out ideas on a class. Keep the ideas coming in because it has to start somewhere!!

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

It's your connection with weights at CFMs.....go back and look at the way you listed them:confused: So your saying an 11lb car runs a 750? 850' s a 10lb car? I'm even dumber than I thought. Why do you need 20 inches of vac?:confused:
Thats right , speed doesn't sell Super gas , Super comp or Super street....and thats about the WORST form of drag racing there is........personally , if thats all that was ever left for drag racing I'd run away from the hobby as fast as I could .

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

I have to "qualify" my comment........
Speed within reason.......is what I'm suggesting. This racer is about as much "Modified Production" influenced as any.
My "speed" parameters would be cars running 9.0s to 10.50s. Thats it , the end.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

Hey Joe. I just took it for granted that everyone knew I was talking about CFM. Sorry. Don't stop with your suggestions. People may like them better then mine. Also, you don't need 20 inches of vac, but if you let me, and 100 others have our pumps, we will damn sure have 20 inches of vac. I own 2 complete Star systems, and hire one of the best block prep men in the world, and all my motors pull between 19, and 20 inches. Most people with a pan vac, doing their best, will struggle to pull 4 inches of vac. Just keeping it simple. I was just stating that these are all things we can do without, and would make the $1,300 dollar rings less advantagious. I'm just throwing this stuff out there. I AIN'T trying to take over, just relaying ideas.

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

What about high side rev limiter? no 2steps 3000 lbs is light by modified standards was'nt that many modified cars under 3000 lbs. My Dad had H/G camaro 292 sbc 3810lbs was what it had to weigh.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: OLD Modified Corvettes
 

The old IHRA Super Mod class rules were simple enough, cheap enough to build, easy to tech, and fun to run.