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Drive up to the gate, plunk down $500 clams, and they hand you a wally. Turn around and go home. No teardown, no AHFS, no wear and tear on your car, no lodging expenses. Track makes money and everyone goes home happy...

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Ah yes, the ever elusive Wally. I like it .
Go on Friday, pick up your trophy, then haul yer butt to an association combo race..Visit friends , race for cash, and be home for Monday. Best of both worlds.

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Yeah, hear Elizabeth Warren is advocating this policy.

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It`s even less expensive to buy one off of eBay. Usually about $250.....

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Most people that think this way usually can’t win one ..
My attitude is if there’s class I’m gonna try ...

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There's actually a pretty good market on the small Wally's from people that don't even race.

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Seems like I remember a couple of racers that helped finance their racing by Wally sales? I guess they get dusty after a while and it is better to turn them to green.

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Sounds familiar...

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[QUOTE=SDT1DYI;602923]Interesting idea to add 5 to all indexes.


Make them half a second SLOWER?? Did I understand correctly?
Everybody runs under now, so we are simply bracket racing like it is.

I was thinking they need to be half a second faster.
Who can not run over half a second under now? If there are people who can not, maybe they need to work on their stuff harder?

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[QUOTE=Ed Wright;603444]Excellent point Ed! Agreed

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I can’t run .500 under......Will somebody please explain to me,as I asked in a previous post,what were the great things that happened the last time indexes were lowered?it got rid of some cars who could not run fast enough,is that supposed to be a good thing?did it stop people from running too fast and getting hp?did it make the fast cars not be the fast cars anymore?Yes,I know it is a performance based category and I’m glad it is,but just how fast do you have to go........to be World Champ.....? Victor Penrod

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.3 here, .5 there.....That's what you call "getting nickel-&-dimed to death"! Just as you start reaching for that dollar on the ground, somebody pulls the string that's attached to it.

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Whatever the horsepower factor is for a given STOCK Eliminator combo,the Super Stock factor should be the SAME or higher.

I will never understand how a combo like a 1997 LT1 can be rated at 358 in Stock,but it drops to 279 in Super Stock.

SUPER means MORE modifications allowed.So if the Stock factor is 358,the Super Stock factor should be at least 358.

That might make it tougher to run under the index for some that find it so easy.

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I have not read on any of the posts where a Stock racer is asking for an decrease in the indexes. Now as far as the AHFS my opinion is it should at least keep up with the increased performances over the last 15 years. BP

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The Stockers keep getting SS parts so there is less distance between them than before. Stockers are qualifying well in SS and you want the SS cars to carry a higher HP factor than they are, any more and the Stockers will be running faster than the SS cars in the SS class. Look at the bump for Indy, SSers are almost a tenth behind the Stockers, if anything they should have a higher factor in relation to the SSers.

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Terms like Modified Stock, Super Stock Lite, Comp Stock.
Stock is just a Camshaft away from the upper classes.

Want to get back to Stock.
NHRA will have to Reinstate the Blueprint cam rule..!
Hell for reliability include Roller Lifter and Rockers.

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Not over all. But for my particular combo I probably will be asking but I want to get everything out of it before I do. And I have a lot to try.

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So Dan Fahey ... and I agree...
do you think the cam / lifter / spring / rocker manufacturers are gonna let that happen 😂😂 >>> really it would cut 50% off cost of motor if we went back to duration & spring rules ... think about it all the other stuff not worth the 💰💰💰 if those rules remained 😡

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It's not that simple. There are significant differences in the index between the Stock and Super Stock classes.

What class does a 1997 LT1 run in Stock and SS and what are the respective indexes?

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Stock A - C 11.00 - 11.40
SS I - K 10.70 - 11.25

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Thanks, Jon.

In other words, an A/SA car that runs only 5/10ths under, can still run 2/10ths under in Super Stock, without even switching off the alternator.

Are the indexes/ hp ratings too soft? Sure they are, but you'll never sell any changes to them in today's climate.
Not when Pomona Stk fills up with 7 gp's, and S/S is only half full.

Just another unintended consequence of the big NHRA Sportsman Squeeze out.

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An A/SA is 5/10s under on a 10.50 pass, that's 1.5 tenths over the SS/EA index of 10.35.

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Except the cars dont run in SS/EA.

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I was thinking of my car, I see now he's talking about an LT1.

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[QUOTE=Ed Wright;603444]Ed sometimes working on your stuff won't make it any faster, until you throw a lot of money at it and sometimes that doesn't help.

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[QUOTE=Jim Hanig;603813]Jim, do you know anybody that can not run more than five tenths under their index?

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Here's the part I don't get. If I've got a car that runs 1.5 under why wouldn't I want a bunch of cars in my class that can only run .1 under? I'm old. What am I missing?
Pete

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It can't be just a "class thing", unless some don't like the lack of competition or challenge when they come up against a like-classed car that they have covered by a ton. But the faster car can still screw up and the embarrassment factor of losing is directly proportionate to the disparity of the respective performance potential of the 2.

I don't know to what extent it exists, but it does and has been mentioned before -

Some people who have the time, money and/or dedication to make a vehicle of their choice run 1.5 under don't like it when some people who only have enough time, money and/or dedication to make their vehicle of choice run only .5 under or less.....but can still put them on the trailer during regular eliminations!

* Maybe they don't think it's "fair" that they spend $100k on a car, but they get beat by a bottom qualifier who spent $10k.

* Maybe they don't like the extra spot they have to give because the opponent barely runs the index.

As was mentioned before, the indexes aren't THAT easy, especially for someone who doesn't have the the knowledge, resources and/or time to start with. The index should be more often referred to as a minimum performance standard. That is one of many things that separates class racing from brackets and it helps put things into a better perspective. The index should be "correct" if the HP factor is correct. But that's another eternally controversial subject.

We're a sportsman class, so it shouldn't be mostly about money. YOU choose your "weapon". Choose wisely. But don't discourage people who want to support class racing despite all of the rules and difficulties.

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This ������ ⬆️ Why not do the personal index thing to cars that have the capability of 1.200 I’m relatively new to class racing and mines gone .570 under ONCE , with a tail wind, downhill , on a full moon....... suppose we can all just go back to bracket racing and not worry about indexes anymore

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Local tracks have bracket racing for you.

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So is it that you guys don’t want low buck racers in stock or what?

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Nope, I think most of us want to maintain an element of performance in our racing. Stock/Super Stock combo's have a pure bracket race format and I must say, it loses some of the excitement you get from the chance of a heads up run. Heads up/ no break out class racing is very exciting, but it's nice to have the dial in regular eliminator to expand the opportunities for fun. Stock and super stock get the best of both worlds. It's the only class in nhra that has both heads up/no break out and dial in racing.

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Sounds like some of the "seniors" (as in "established" racers) don't want the freshman to play on "their" fields unless they can afford the expensive toys right off the bat! Top qualifying positions, records, class eliminations and the potential for heads-up in regular eliminations isn't enough?

Gee, where have I seen this scenario play out while growing up?

It would be interesting to know:

* How long it took the "fast" racers to be able to qualify consistently in the top 1/2 of the fields. (Hard to establish a number because of the varying indexes & records throughout history.)

* How many haven't been able to maintain it over the years.

* How many tried, both with and without the resources, but couldn't make it and quit.

* How many quit after the last .3 hit?

This will go on forever, but the final say will be from NHRA.

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Pick your combination wisely and have fun. If not, have fun anyway. Who knows how much longer before big changes come from NHRA, regarding sportsman racing.
Merry Christmas
Mike A114

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Myron I don't know of anyone that is an active racer that is in favor of lowering the index's. I'd just like to see the AHFS catch up to the ET improvements that Stock and Super Stock have gained in the last 15 years since the system was implemented. No James putting Indy in the 120 under mix again would be just another race that the AHFS game would be played. BP

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Some of us old codgers build our own stuff. Not everybody qualified in the top half wrote a big check for their engine.

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Nice Ed... Esp the "Old Codgers" part!

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Uh huh.

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Yes it"s done by some........... the soft factors help

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Moving the index will not help the runaway advertised...hp factor train. Until they roll back the bogus hp factors the problem stays. I guess brushing up on writing skills is cheaper and easier to go fast. I can’t fault the folks who did it but it is a loophole that needs addressed and quickly..