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-   -   worst red light debate, again! (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=32995)

bill dedman 05-13-2011 03:51 AM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High (Post 258200)
This has been entertaining reading for sure but maybe the moderator could move this thread to the bracket racing forum so some of the S/SS racers won't have heart failure. Work on getting it changed in bracket racing first then the others will follow. :eek:

Jeff
And what would that accomplish?

Mile High 05-13-2011 10:34 AM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 258272)
And what would that accomplish?
There are more bracket racers than S/SS racers. Get the bracket crowd to back the change and the others will follow. For the most part S/SS is a bracket race until two cars in the same class face each other. Just sayin'.

Jeff

Bimbo Jones 05-13-2011 10:44 AM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High (Post 258300)
There are more bracket racers than S/SS racers. Get the bracket crowd to back the change and the others will follow. For the most part S/SS is a bracket race until two cars in the same class face each other. Just sayin'.

Jeff
Well played Jeff, well played.

Ed Wright 05-13-2011 11:45 AM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Bracket racing by guys smart enough to make one run fast enough.

Mile High 05-13-2011 12:09 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 258307)
Bracket racing by guys smart enough to make one run fast enough.
So true. S/SS racers have to stay within a set of rules that a regular bracket racer doesn't. They have to be smart or have deep pockets or both.

Jeff

X-TECH MAN 05-13-2011 12:47 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 258307)
Bracket racing by guys smart enough to make one run fast enough.
Not always smart enough.......Mostly its how deep their pockets are in todays world.

Jeff Lee 05-13-2011 02:05 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 258199)
More to the point...
"Is this fair Bill? Oh, I forgot, this wouldn't affect you because you do not partake in the Class you have your nose in."

No, it's not fair, but we are talking about procedural rules here.... not "FAIR" in other venues.

The subject of this thread is matters pertinent to red light rules.... if you want start a thread about something else, have at it... but that's not "us."


Your comment that, "Once again, while you repeat your mantra dozens of times" ... LOL! I repeat it because you don't seem to comprehend when I say, "I run a Bracket car, which follows the letter of NHRA law when red lights are prosecuted. That makes ME, Bill the Bracket Racer, a victim in exactly the same way it does you, Jeff, the Class Racer whenever there's a first red light issue.

Get it? Your comments, like, "this wouldn't affect you because you do not partake in the Class you have your nose in" make me think that you don't.

Your "red light experience" is EXACTLY the same as mine. Why WOULDN'T I want it changed? Why wouldn't YOU, for that matter...
Bill,
I HAVE stated who this would negatively affect. I thought I made it pretty clear. It revolves around a guy building a car per the rules for an ADVANTAGE. Smart racers build cars that way. Racing is not all "cumbayaa" or however that word is spelled. Anybody that doesn't look for an advantage is a fool throwing his money away so I don't want to hear "it's a personal agenda". Nobody has ALL the advantages but when you stack enough of them up, you have better chances of winning. And winning is what this is about. And yes, that is not always fair.
I'd re-write it all or maybe you should look up the post I made regarding this but I have to get back to work. All I know is I made the post and you either did not see it (doubt that) or chose to ignore it. As it didn't fit your mold, that would seem plausible.

And my post about class index differences and tranny breaks was not to re-direct this thread. It was an illustration that there ARE "unfair" (perceived or real) situations in racing and this issue of first or worst red light is not exclusive. If I cared enough, I would take it direct to NHRA. And one day I will. I will post it here along with my letter(s) to NHRA. I stand on my own two feet and am not easily deterred.

Jim Wahl 05-13-2011 02:21 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lee (Post 258329)
Bill,
I HAVE stated who this would negatively affect. I thought I made it pretty clear. It revolves around a guy building a car per the rules for an ADVANTAGE. Smart racers build cars that way. Racing is not all "cumbayaa" or however that word is spelled. Anybody that doesn't look for an advantage is a fool throwing his money away so I don't want to hear "it's a personal agenda". Nobody has ALL the advantages but when you stack enough of them up, you have better chances of winning. And winning is what this is about. And yes, that is not always fair.
I'd re-write it all or maybe you should look up the post I made regarding this but I have to get back to work. All I know is I made the post and you either did not see it (doubt that) or chose to ignore it. As it didn't fit your mold, that would seem plausible.

And my post about class index differences and tranny breaks was not to re-direct this thread. It was an illustration that there ARE "unfair" (perceived or real) situations in racing and this issue of first or worst red light is not exclusive. If I cared enough, I would take it direct to NHRA. And one day I will. I will post it here along with my letter(s) to NHRA. I stand on my own two feet and am not easily deterred.
Oh man! I must have missed it also. I have read every one of the posts you wrote. I can't for the life of me recall the part about your stating exactly who the rule change would hurt! I know I and several others have asked continuously but I sure can't remember you or anybody else clearing that up. I have better things to do than to sort through 52 pages of posts looking for a non existing post. Please restate your answer for us idiots. Take your time. Maybe you can sway me back to your way of thinking! Thanks. Jim

bill dedman 05-13-2011 02:23 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lee (Post 258329)
Bill,
I HAVE stated who this would negatively affect. I thought I made it pretty clear. It revolves around a guy building a car per the rules for an ADVANTAGE. Smart racers build cars that way. Racing is not all "cumbayaa" or however that word is spelled. Anybody that doesn't look for an advantage is a fool throwing his money away so I don't want to hear "it's a personal agenda". Nobody has ALL the advantages but when you stack enough of them up, you have better chances of winning. And winning is what this is about. And yes, that is not always fair.
I'd re-write it all or maybe you should look up the post I made regarding this but I have to get back to work. All I know is I made the post and you either did not see it (doubt that) or chose to ignore it. As it didn't fit your mold, that would seem plausible.

And my post about class index differences and tranny breaks was not to re-direct this thread. It was an illustration that there ARE "unfair" (perceived or real) situations in racing and this issue of first or worst red light is not exclusive. If I cared enough, I would take it direct to NHRA. And one day I will. I will post it here along with my letter(s) to NHRA. I stand on my own two feet and am not easily deterred.
Jeff, our "problem" in communicating about this issue is that we have two different mindsets regarding how the game is played.


You are content to maximize your chances of winning using the rules as they have been in effect for the last 48 years. In that vein, I don't understand why you don't campaign a A A /S car, which would never have to leave first. As long as you're going to squeeze the last drop of advantage out of this system, why not take it to the limit?

I am not content to operate under a system that gives an advantage to anyone... unnecessarily, and would prefer to see it changed to one that is fair to everybody, regardless of class.

Just two answers to the same question.

Right now, it looks like your system will continue to work for you for a long time; I don't see this first red light rule being changed anytime soon.

Good luck with that.

bill dedman 05-13-2011 02:30 PM
Re: worst red light debate, again!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 258337)
Jeff, our "problem" in communicating about this issue is that we have two different mindsets regarding how the game is played.


You are content to maximize your chances of winning using the rules as they have been in effect for the last 48 years. In that vein, I don't understand why you don't campaign a A A /S car, which would never have to leave first. As long as you're going to squeeze the last drop of advantage out of this system, why not take it to the limit?

I am not content to operate under a system that gives an advantage to anyone... unnecessarily, and would prefer to see it changed to one that is fair to everybody, regardless of class.

Just two answers to the same question.

Right now, it looks like your system will continue to work for you for a long time; I don't see this first red light rule being changed anytime soon.

Good luck with that.
As far as your bringing up trans-brakes and indexes, I was only half right. The trans brake issue IS a rules-based subuect, but the Index situation is not. I guess one out of two ain't bad... :)


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