Re: SS Modified
 

Since this thread is about SS/CS (or C/SM for older folks) my friend Pat Hennebery still races his 1968 Camaro old C/SM car in N.E.T.O. nostalgia racing circuit. Right now with a stock block and heads 327 , just dressed up for the old C/SM car with the intake, Holley 750, big tube headers, crank trigger, ect and a jerico 4 speed has gone 11.30's

Still has the 70's paint and decals, even a Lakewood roll bar! Back "in the day" he ran a 318 SBC with iron Modified heads, said he ran best of 10.59 He would go to Indy and there would be 25 cars entered in C/SM alone.

He moved on to Competion Eliminator in the 80's , still has his C/EA Berretta plus a brand new Street Roadster to run either B or C/SR With that he has a few older Comp motors, Buick Dart head stuff.

He was always looking for a Heads up type class, and ran in a IHRA class called Factory Modified, a "Junior Prostock" type class. They tried to get NHRA to carry it.

I know if a heads up type of SS/CS class was around he would drop one of those motors in his Camaro, he even has headers for a Camaro with Buick/Dart heads.

OK, maybe a heads up C/SM with only original rear wheel drive cars allowed? Keep the cost down?
Here r some video of the Camaro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9TOYrbQyQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQCr3NIU0sY

Will Lamprecht I/SA 65 Impala in progress

Re: SS Modified
 

While it sounds interesting on paper, you're talking about something that will never happen. You need a "spec head/motor" for GM/Ford/Mopar. And even if there were a $10k limit placed on this motor, how would that be enforced/policed?

Stock eliminator has aluminum headed big block combinations that CFE is welding, porting, and re-blasting to appear perfectly stock for a rough price of $10k. NHRA can't definitively tell the difference between these heads and a true stock casting - how would they tell if a spec head is still untouched? There is absolutely no such thing as a cost effective Heads Up class. There will always be competitors who push the envelope and spend more time and money to win.

Beyond the motor you still have to invest $6k in a Pro-Trans, $3k Dewco/Indy Gear Center section, $4k+ RacePak, and the list goes on and on... Budget will never have a place in going fast in heads up drag racing if you want to win.

All this talk about low cost ways for people to win and have the same thing that others who are working hard and spending more for - this thread sounds like it's a political argument... "Everyone should be able to win class and heads up races no matter their time and money investment." - Obama... lol

Mike

Re: SS Modified
 

Outstanding post!

Re: SS Modified
 

I see a big difference from "working hard" to "spending money" in my personal approch in Drag Racing. I don't know anything about 10K stocker heads but have spent the last 2 plus years building my own car. I could not afford to A. buy a complete car and B. pay somebody to build, but I am talking about a Stocker though. Only way I can race is "work hard" doing and learning my own thing. One set of real stock heads on my 396/325, just flowed them with different valves. That Impala ran 7-8 tenths under then, that same motor is going in my 65 Impala now would be a 5 tenths under? I'll be happy to get the car down the track for now, and have some fun.

Mike you are right about the $ taking out the eliminator eventually, look at Pro Stock. The thread on 70-80's Pro Stock shows tons of different cars, today only handful of teams and who knows how long Pro Stock will be around.

Just enjoying this bench racing.

Re: SS Modified
 

impstocker, actually this thread wasn't started as a debate about SS/CS but quickly turned into one. Mike Mans makes many good points on that subject, as pertaining to CS. However the OP was asking what made a modified car a modified car, which several good answers were given. Then moved to questions about old comp engines, which was met with differing opinions. My opinion, if the gentleman has the engine and would like to dip his toes in the Super Stock pool build it, race it and have fun. If he finds that this is the type racing he enjoys he has many options to upgrade. Of course Dick is still pushing his "econo modified" agenda, which has been beaten to death.

Re: SS Modified
 

buzzinhalf dozen,
I agree and if I hijacked the original intent of the thread I do apologize. What that fella wants to do with that Comp motor is cool and it is about having fun. I only started to read this thread because this was the same thing my friend with his old 68 C/SM Camaro was thinking about, and he would still run the stick shift because it's more fun too!

Will Lamprecht

Re: SS Modified
 

Nope, not still pushing the agenda just commenting on the thread of Mod.
It will not change until costs really are an issue with majority of racers or entries drop due to concerns reaching a greater number about factoring on HP.
Still a nice place to see friends, share stories and raise kids while we can afford it.

Re: SS Modified
 

Working hard definitely pays dividends. But, money will always be a factor. That's the plain truth.

My SS/BS motor cost almost $27K with a used block, crank, heads, rockers, belt drive, distributer and carb. The mook who built the motor--a very well know engine builder from down south--broke a lifter on the dyno and never bothered to tear the motor down to see/repair the damage to other components. I had to pay over $2K for a new set of Jesel lifters, and another $300 to regrind the camshaft. When he put it back on the dyno, it was at least 80 hp short of where it should have been and he was full of excuses.

Got it home, put it on a stand and eventually took it apart to find grooved cylinder walls, and two ruined pistons. The $2500 pistons and rings are now scrap. Besides, four of them were hitting the chamber, all of them had ridiculously deep and long flame grooves on the dome and valve reliefs too deep killing compression.

The engine is now being repaired by the guy I should have brought it to in the first place. Still, I'm going to have to spend at least five grand to get it fixed and dyno'd again. Now we're into the $30K range, and I'm hoping (praying) to be .60-.70 under.

Also, remember one thing. The index will change at some point. SS/BS used to be 10.0. Now it's 9.65. So, money will have to be spent to get back under again when it happens.

In the end, nobody should be deterred from building a budget engine to run in any class. With hard work and good parts selection, the car should run under the index and you can chip away at going faster over time.

Re: SS Modified
 

Cant resist a response to the "political comment"
Mike, consider the reality of eliminator racing versus class heads up racing.
Class (based on lb/hp) means if you can afford to change cars and build new repeatedly to keep a bogus factor car you can usually win.
Class (based on lb/cubic inchs) means you all have the same right to spend unlimited to win with the SAME stuff, not bogus factors.

The more you limit the rules the cars still are all the same specs but cheaper to own, build and race.( no external pumps, one carb, observation hole for crank, no sheet metal manifold, P and G, all use same spec trans. limited tire size if needed. )

Eliminator is set to make it possible for anyone to win. You only race a guy based on what he says he can run, not on what he can run. I don't agree with records either but based on qualifying might be worth a try.

I'm proposing a way to open up an affordable basic class car for the future that could attract new people and even better cut the costs to current racers next time the $35 motor breaks.

Side Comment, Randy Wilson ran these cheaper Mod cars at a track and Brodix teched the Questionable heads if needed to assure no mods.

Re: SS Modified
 

It has been beat to death, but was never tried. For instance, they do make a spec head for Mopar, Chevy, and Ford. They flow virtually the same. They use them in lots of circle track classes. The heads have spec cast in them on the top, and bottom of both ports. My point ain't to get an Obama class, just an option of not having to change heads every two years. We did it locally for several years, and I hear they are going to open again next year. We had great crowds, and the last two shootouts were won by 6 thousandths, and 2 10 thousandths of a second. It definitely doesn't take hard work out of the equation, it makes you pay special attention to the cam, carb, and gearing. Plus, if you hurt a head, $500 and you have a new bare head. Not taking anything away from folks like the Manns, or Bogner, or anyone else. Just saying it ain't like we were trying to reinvent the wheel. Also, for a fee of $50 Brodix will let you ship it to them and they can tell real quick if someone messed with it. Just a thought. Feel free to bash away. I'm 60. I don't care.