Re: Original hemi dart information
I almost forgot, but there is one tidbit I would like to throw in regarding earlier references to Manhattan Speed Shop.
The owner, Joe Bello, and I did some business a few years ago (vintage Mopar and other OEM parts), and he has OEM and speed inventory from when he operated Worth Auto Parts, in addition to Manhattan Speed on Canal St, and I believe Bronx Speed as well. It is all in storage now in the Bronx, and he sells periodically on eBay. Perhaps he could provide some history on their involvement on a 68 car. You should be able to reach him at one of the following numbers: 718-589-2979 516-746-6744 Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
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Jimi--
I have the utmost respect for what your father & yourself have contributed to the drag racing world. I do not want to discredit this in any way, I only want to find the true history on my car.I am not in this to put a higher value on my car,but instead, I am a true enthusiest of these factory built race cars. If you can find those pictures that your father had when he purchased this car, it sure would help alot. Mark Janaky told me of a fellow who helped find this car for your father by the name of "Big Al". I will contact him this week to see what I can find out from him. Do you remember anything on this??? Living up here in Canada, there just wasn't alot of Hemi Super Stock stuff going on, so I have to rely on avenues such as this forum to get information. Bill-- I will also be contacting Joe Bello to see what he can offer for info.Thankyou for the tip. Liteweight Daryl |
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JimI "V"
The "Tony" you may be referring to on the earlier thread may have been from Salerno Dodge, Route 202, Peekskill, NY. Peekskill Dodge, also in Peekskill, was a little bit before your time, which closed in 74' or so. But man, did they have some nice musclecars in 69'/70'/71', and a couple of Dover-based race cars. Daryl, there may have been (2) Manhattan-based speed shops. The Manhattan Speed Shop, Canal Street,,, and Manhattan Speed & Power Equipment, 232 West Broadway. Both in lower NYC. The Hemi Dart from one of them had lettrered Manhattan Speed Parts on the front fender, photo of it versus Charlie Castaldo at E-Town, NJ. Not sure if both one-in-the-same. Two possible places that car could have come from, Manhattan Dodge, or the Chrysler Corporation Headquarters in NYC. PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
The origins of the Dart would possibly have been McKenzie Motors (East Tremont Ave.) in the Bronx, or S&W Dodge in Queens. As far as Manhattan, I believe that at the time it MAY have been operated under the Potamkin name.
Bill Rolik 1514 SS P.S. Some of the items I bought from Joe Bello had tags on them from Tremont Dodge, which (I believe) was formerly McKenzie Motors. |
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Bill,
I don't think daryl or Mark J have any idea of what we are talking about:rolleyes: Daryl is from Manitoba, Canada and Mark is from Racine, Wisconsin. Probably never heard of Arthur Avenue, The Bronx either. The smell of bread in the air. AHH!!! Semolina. Tremont Dodge,.The parts department was called "Midnight Auto Parts" after hours:rolleyes:. Found the old # for Manhattan Speed & Power Equipment. #CA6-5016. Wonder if the Hemi Dart is in the back, under some old tires. Also, a Manhattan Auto Parts was located on Varick Street. Some blasts from the past; Flips Speed Shop, Fred's Speed Shop, C & A Automotive, B & L Automotive (I think Dennis still runs the shop with his son). Ross Engine, and the famous B & B Auto Parts (I think off East Tremont, Frankie Biscoglio ran the shop. Paul |
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Too bad, because everyone needs to go to Arthur Avenue before they die. Outside of Italy, there is no place on Earth like it.
I am a regular patron of Dominick's (fabulous food, with no menu offered, and they make up the prices as they go along!), the Calabria Pork Store (specialty meats and cheeses), Egidio's (pastries), and of course Borgatti's for FRESH (they make it on the premises 10 feet from the counter) ravioli, manicotti and gnocchi. To die for! And they they don't even pay me to say this. B&B Auto Parts is still there. I tried to buy some obsolete parts from them, but they had major attitude issues. I will never go back. Hopefully, you will have luck with Joe Bello of Manhattan Speed if you ever decide to call him. Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
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Bill,
I know what you mean. No menu ristorante's the best. Whad'ya Got?....Whad'ya Want? Also, Artuso's Bakery, (2) locations, McLean Ave./Bronx River Road, Yonkers and Gramatan Avenue (Gramatan Square), Mt. Vernon. The guys from Gramatan Dodge frequented that bakery. Nice cannoli's. You know, the Hemi guys on this thread are going to put us in detention. Food Network class, "Everyday Italian", with Giada De'laurentiis as the teacher. Put me down for six months of detention. Nice Braciole', if you know what I mean:) Paul |
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Paul,
We may be in detention, AND on "Double Secret Probation" as well, but we will both be forgiven once they visit Arthur Avenue! Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
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Hey guys your making me hungery and it's only 8.30 in the morning.
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Speaking of hemi guys.............
check out this group http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...esandmarkj.jpg left to right........ dell jones, wild bill collett, unknown in back, john "boogie" oliverio in middle front, john book, and mark janaky |
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"Nice Braciole'".I don't even have to be Italian to know what that means!!!. I agree completely. The cuisine down there sounds like world class all in one area.We got alot of Ukranian ethic up here, I'm going to go out on a limb here & raise your Raviolis & Manicotis' for some homemade boiled perogies with fried onions & freshly smoked Kulbasa smothered in a rich pork based cream gravy.Breakfast,lunch or supper,maybe all three,this is a major food group that you gotta experience!!!!
Now that I'm hungry, I'm going to get back on the Hemi thing. I contacted "Big Al" from Big Al's Toys but no luck there. I then phoned Joe Bella ,who used to run Manhatten Speed Shop, & he told me they never had a Hemi Dart or even sponsored one. I'm confused once again. Paul, I'm hopin you got big shoulders,because I'm relying on you to help sort this thing out. For such a limited number of possible cars, this unknown soldier is eluding me so far. Liteweight Daryl |
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Daryl.
Are you telling me you guys have a Little Ukraine' up there, like we have a Little Italy down here:). Lay off the gravy, high in cholesterol. Okay, Hemi talk. I sent out the photo's to you and Mark on Tuesday. You should have them tomorrow/today or Monday. I had to fill out a custom sform for your envelope. The post-clerk asked for the value of the contents. $275,000 if it was the "Real Thing":D. Try to find info on Manhattan Speed & Power Equipment, West Broadway, Manhattan. That may be the real Manhattan location. I will be spending all-day filling this post with info, instead of waiting to answer thread-questions. As i told Mark J earlier, I started this quest back in 1975'. I had tons of literature and info on almost every car back then. Lost or mis-placed over the years. Have to go by memory on some things. PC |
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Daryl and Mark J,
Here goes on Pomona. Bill Rodik may know the area on this one, but he may have to stay late in class (an after-school-project with Giada). Keith Krenza was the second owner of this car. The (a Hemi Dart with automatic transmission) went to a Singer Dodge in Kearney, New Jersey, which was swapped with Cy Greene Dodge, Northern Blvd., Manhassett, New York. Sounds somewhat correct, because Dick Greene also had a 65' Dodge factory Hemi car back in-the-day. Part 1. PC |
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Pomona Dart (Part II),
Still not sure if Singer Dodge got it first or Cy Greene Dodge, vice-versa, a switch happened somewhere. Whoever purchased the car, had it painted dark-gray. Raced at New York National Speedway, Center Moriches, New York very late in the year 1968. No lettering, only a Dodge emblem on quarter-panel. The only info I have from that time, is an ET time of a 68' Dodge Dart 11.19 @123 (10/27/68). PC |
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Pomona Dart (Part III),
The Dart ended up in the hands of a Keith Krenza, from Delaware. Here's the confusion, not the state, but the city Delaware, New Jersey, right outside of Great Meadows (Island Raceway). Unfortunately, no one knows how he ended up with a Hemi Dart from Long Island. Other than the fact, that he only raced it a couple of times, unsuccessfully, in 1969. It appears that someone replaced the orginal Torque-Flite with a stock unit, regular shift pattern. PC |
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Pomona Dart (Part IV),
One thing that I have in my files, is that when Keith Krenza got the car in 69', it had a welded brace in the trunk (a girdle) attaching both shock towers?? I'm guessing whoever had the car first, must have known something.:cool: And smart enough to yank the transmission, before selling the car.:o Keith does not remember when or who he sold the car to. Guessing late 1971, as the car sat for over a year and half in his garage. PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Pomona Dart (Part V),
It was thought that the car found its way to Central New Jersey, then painted purple-ish/blue and was lettered with "Trenton Speed Shop",with large lettering on the door. I do remember vaguely a picture of that, but cannot put a stamp on that one. Jack Werst had some Trenton Speed Shop sponsoring also. Maybe around 71'/72'. Somehow, a car ends up on the border of New Jersey/New York, in the Mahwah/Suffern area in 73', at a bus company (not sure of the name, maybe Bill knows that area, as he worked at Spring Valley Dodge). Thats where the guy from Pomona, New York got it. PC |
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Paul,
The dealers in Kearny and Manhasset were gone eons ago. The bus company on the NY/NJ border was probably Shortline in Mahwah. Since I think Frank Sulc (Of Callahan & Sulc) also had an arrangement with Trenton Speed Shop, you might want to talk to him. He works for Bill Ceralli in Paterson, NJ (Ceralli Competition Engines). You need to engage "spell-checker"! My name is spelled ROLIK, not RODIK. Or it's no more Dominick's to-die-for sauce for you! You will have to get by with Chef Boy-Ar-Dee. Bill Rolik 1514 SS |
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Bill,
Mi' scusi....I slipped on a piece of broccoli rabe' while spelling your name on the last post. Paul |
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Tommy,
Quite a group there. The unknown guy in the back is Jim Kramer (quite a Hemi guy himself). That was the Hemi Shootout Thursday or Friday at Indy last year less than a week after the Hemi Reunion at Quaker City. I think I was on Hemi overload! Mark J |
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Mark J,
Got a private message from Jim, who worked at Cy Greene Dodge, Manhassett, L.I.. New York. A Hemi Dart went through there. Not sure if it was an original order, or swapped from another dealer. He's not sure of who got it. Or the Singer Dodge connection. Mystery Barracuda. Not sure if you've got this one. ............................ Bender Chrysler-Plymouth, SS/BA, Clovis, New Mexico No, not Gordon Stewart's "Hair Bender". This one looks like a Sox & Martin paint-scheme, with a large center-strip (blue)??? More on Pomona, later.... PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Bill,
Thanks on the bus connection. It was either Short-Line or Vanguard, I'm not sure of any others, maybe Orange Bus Co.? But the Dart was there, in the bus garage (owned by a mechanic). Heard he ran the car on the late-shift between the buses for fun, against the guys from the night-shift at the Ford-plant in Mahwah. Maybe against some Super Cobra-Jets on a final test-drive, before shipping them out:) Not sure if you heard of a Vic. Pomona Speed Shop, off route 202 in Pomona, NY. Not really a speed shop, but a 2-car garage behind his house (Vic's Auto Repair), with some speed parts in his side office. Got the Hemi Dart in (74'/75'..??) from the bus mechanic. Paul |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark J and Paul, Hot Rod Magazine put out a special Mopar collectors series in the winter of 2005, alot of rare pictures in the back section.
Ronnie Sox racing Charlie Casaldo, Hemi Hunter, Hemi Power,and over 50 other hemi darts and cudas. one picture is Ed Miller in his cuda racing the Manhatten Speed Parts dart. some pictures are from 1968 and some were from 1969. some teams in early paint and lettering, and some in latter day paint. most pictures in black and white. its a great start for someone trying to figure some of this hemi history out. |
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Mark J, did you ever do any more research on the two red DeFrank and
Cohen cudas? One was red and yellow and sold to Lydon and Johnson in Penn. and the other all red car was sold to Don MacCallum. What do you think the history was on each car. Also I understand that Dell and you have allmost finished documenting most of these cars. Are you going to publish this information or going to try making it available to others trying to study the sport. Any help would be appreciated. Have many cars with their first owners. These cars sure did change hands over the years. I told Dell I would try and send him more pictures. |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Paul, I got your pictures, I am getting some ready to send to you. Looks like you have been doing some digging! I tried a few people but no luck on the Pomona Speed shop yet.
Mark J |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark,
As you can see in the Dart photo. The rear quarter-panels are near perfect. Replaced stock units. I'm sure in 1980 or 1981, the original Hurst-modified units must have been dinged up pretty bad. Most guys just replaced the quarter-panels with stock units, and then had the rear-ends narrowed for the cleaner look? Also, I said earlier, the trunk-lid had a steel unit on, with the trim-panel. Unfortunately, thats all I have on the black Dart. As for the Pomona car, not too much info passing on this post. It appears that the original car went through Charles Singer Dodge in Kearney, New Jersey and/or Cy Greene Dodge in Manhassett, L.I., NY. I think the original purchaser came out of Corona (Queens), NY. Not too far from Manhassett. Jim B, mentioned that the Dart out of Cy Greene Dodge was a 4-speed, but as you know, that doesn't help much, as many racers immediately switched to automatics. PC |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark J,
Following up on the Pomona, NY Dart. As I said earlier, it was at Dover in late 75'. Painted dark gray, with Pomona Speed Parts lettered on the front fender (I think). It ran in brackets (no S/S there). Maybe a 11.70 or so, the car was worn-out-a-bit. The owner of the Dart wanted to trade me his car for the 440 Cuda' (photo I sent you). You see why I didn't do it. Then it disappeared, and Dover closed in May 76'. 4 years later, I'm selling automotive engine rebuilding equipment, and I end up in Pomona. The owner (Vic) in a 2-bay garage with a small parts store in his office wants to buy tooling for his Winona valve guide/seat machine. One thing leads to another, and there it was, on the side of his garage, the Hemi Dart. Not for Sale, and sitting for almost 4 years, (only occasionally street-raced in Nyack, NY and North Jersey) machine. |
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68hemiss Do you have any pictures of Tom Myl cuda Dell sent me 2 Thanks Bucky
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Around 1973 or 74 I purchased a original factory Dart from a black gentelman . We picked the car in Hamsted New York . The Dart had been in a fire in a local body shop,I think that was the story. Hood and dipped parts were in bad shape but were repairable, and the paint (white) blackened, all in all she was restorable.Brought it back to Baltimore and started to put the body back into original condition, but had an offer to sell (can't remember who),Have no idea where the car is now.It's been a long time ago but I beleave it was a stick , seems to me it had a Dana rear
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Do you have any more info that you can share with me about Vic??. Maybe a last name,phone number or last known location??? You can PM me if you wish. This looks like a promising trail to follow for sure. Haven't recieved your pix yet that you sent me in the mail yet,but it usually takes awhile to get stuff up here to Canada. I'll let you know Liteweight Daryl |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Daryl,
I had to fill out a custom's document to send out youur photo's. I mailed it the same time I sent the photo's to Mark J. He got his, you should have your envelope any day. Can't remember Vic's last name, but I do remember where his shop was. When I go back up to New York in 3 weeks, I just might take a drive-by. I'm as curious as you are, on this car. My best guess, is that unfortunately, it probably got picked apart. As I said earlier, drag racing was pretty much dead in our area in the late 70's and early 80's. Jack Arnew, the New York town was Hempstead, Long Island. That Dart may have been the Mutt Brothers famous New York street-racer. The original S & K Speed Shop (dark red, 4-speed car out of West Babylon, Long Island), that they sold in late 68'. Does that sound correct...(Mark J) OH, Jack, one more thing. Found a photo of Sox & Martin at US30, York, Pa in the summer of 69'. The Cuda had a small design on the front-grille, within the center-stripe. Same as your car. The Cuda you got must have been the second car, or How many did they have???? Paul |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Paul/Jack, the car was the ex-Mutt Bros (S-K Speed Dart) - I do have paperwork and VIN # for the car but it hasn't surfaced. Jack, I was talking to a guy out west who told me that he bought a Dart back east (must have been late 70's -early 80's). He had forgotten where exactly but he said that it had some strange front bars (firewall forward) - any chance this could have been your old Dart?
Paul, I am sending you some photos of the various S&M Barracudas that we spoke about - just trying to get the time to find all of them (many on disc) and get them printed. I think you will like them. Bob R - I will also get the Livingston photos scanned larger for you - I haven't forgotten. Mark J |
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Mark J,
The photo's will be very much appreciated. Thanks, Paul |
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68HEMISS your Long Island sugestion is correct. That must be the Dart I purchased. Its been a long time ago, and my merory not as good as it was. Do remember the guy told me to pick up the car and be out of the aera long before dark as it was not safe to be around after sunset.At the time I was doing a lot of suspension work for New York street racers, tought bunch!!! Sorry I have no more info. on that car, just can't recall where it went. After thought the car had no roll cage or bars.
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Jack,
Hempstead wasn't that bad!!! As long as you were travelling about 100 MPH on Hempstead Turnpike, and didn't stop for any traffic lights. And that was in the afternoon:) Jack, found the rest of the story, before you got the S & M Cuda. It was definitely at US30, York in August 69'. Late August, (8/24 or 8/31) after the S/S Magazine Nationals (which were held on 8/10 there). S/S Magazine held the first so-called Heads-Up Super Stock Pro Meet. The cars were classed in X/SS. All the biggies were there. Sox & Martin won over Dick Landy. Cars must have been in match-race trim. Finally figured out what that little design-scroll was on the front center grille, "426 Hemi". Paul |
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I am not familiar with the Bender Chrysler-Plymouth car. Any chance you could scan the pic and article and send it to me? Harrah's (the casino guys) actually ordered one brand new - Koffel remembered talking to them on the phone telling them how to set it up. Could be the same car - have no idea what happened to it - I have some theories. Thanks, Mark J |
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Paul, I am scanning the pics for you now. Jack, do you know about what year that you sold the Dart?
Thanks, Mark J |
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My car was still being campaigned as a bracket car in the North East corner in 1977, as shown by the decal on the quarter window. I know you guys have seen this pix before,but I'm hoping someone else might come to the table |
Re: Original hemi dart information
Mark J,
I'll post that info you on this thread in a little bit. Have to research the site and post #, so you won't go crazy looking for it. As for Castaldo's crash. That wouldn't have been on 10/6/68 at Englishtown? There was a Super/Stock All-Star Meet their that day. Won by Dave Strickler in a 68 302 Z-28 SS/F. Oh, a little Charlie Castaldo back info. The second car SS/BA , which was lettered by Dino, in Charlie's garage at his home in Scarsdale. That car, which won the 69' Super Stock Magazine Nationals at York (8/10/69), had the motor built by.............John Macey "Heads Up" Cuda. Paul |
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