Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Seems that just a year or two ago, NHRA had a complete breakdown of all runs and had them in office by Monday following all the races that were finished during the weekend.
What happened to their information gathering system ?? I thought some people from NHRA and Nitro Joe compiled all this and then it was used to calucate any and all instant hits, averages to be decided and index changes from Comp, SS and S.
Wonder what happened and why? It seems that the info gathering (or lack of) by NHRA has really slowed down. Anybody know for sure?


RJ

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Kent, Why would ALL the 396s be hit? Gary runs a steel head at 399, I run an aluminum head at 405, and my dad is aluminum head stick at 400. 3 different combinations.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

My mistake. I was at one computer trying to remember what is in another computer. I think Kent has the right numbers. 232 in stock @ 1.10 under and 689 @ 1.00 under. I will look at SS after lunch.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

I would be interested to know where these numbers came from? All this year under the new indexes? Where were they found that Travis couldn't find them?

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

No problem Jeff. We all make mistakes.

So you say 232 @ 1.10 under. Okay we will go with that number. Still 232 @ 1.10 under is the same as 232 @ 1.40 under before the .3 was removed. If that is the case, why would anyone on a committee want to protect cars that would have hit the old automatic trigger when it was 1.40 under? Again I say the old 1.40 under was a number that everyone liked, except those who actually could go 1.40 under. But that means they would now only be safe down to 1.10 under. I wonder who is approaching the 1.10under number? You don't suppose....could it be...? WOW! The 1.20 under number suddenly looks safer than 1.10 under.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Gary's run at the Dutch was wicked fast. I think its safe to say that the steel heads make similar power to the aluminum if not more. That run was 1.122 under the index in some pretty serious air. I think the concept is pretty simple. Gary would probably not have run out the back door if the hit was 1.10 or 1.15 but a heads-up race is a different story. People seem to think that this is all about the new cars. Absolutely not true. The AHFS problem was simply magnified by these new cars. Should a 2002 Corvette LS1 be rated at 330 or 340 when the Camaro is at 370 (or whatever it is)? Should the LS1 with a stick be as low as they are? On the other side, should the Hemi still be as high as it is due to the Henson's run? Absolutely not.

Of course there is no perfect system for factoring all the cars but I think everyone can agree that the system is broken. A 5.7 Drag Pak with a stick in H is probably a 10.40 if not 10.30 race car. Should the sticks and autos be factored together? Maybe, maybe not.

Kent, as you know I have not been doing this very long but have been around it for a little while. You seem to be implying that I wouldn't want horsepower for my brothers' and fathers car but ya know what? If they are completely out of line from everyone else, they need horsepower. We don't want to win because we have some advantage on paper. We also don't want to lose for the same reason either. I remember when Gallina just about went as fast as he wanted in H/SA with the turbo Firebird. We can all agree the new cars need some hits but there are definitely some old (1960 to 2004) cars that need some horsepower also. Making the automatic hit realistic will hopefully bring some things in line.

Obviously NHRA is not going to hire staff to accomplish everything we want. At minimum, how about an open hood policy in the staging lanes? How about making a few guys that are running stupid fast pull a valve cover or pull the carb? Pulling a valve cover takes all of 3 minutes.

I see that people are against combining classes and I understand the reasoning. How about putting sticks and autos together? Especially now with the Pro-Trans and other lightweight pieces, the cars are pretty close for the most part. At any given time we campaign 3 stick cars and 2 auto cars so I hope people feel that I am being objective about it.

What about factored tracks? As the system works now you can't get horsepower but get to steal the national record from someone who had to find traction on a 10 degree track twice in a row? Is that fair?

I refuse to believe that NHRA can't find someone who cares about class racing to make a decision that is as fair as possible without the big wigs getting involved. I'm sure Travis or someone else would be happy to do it.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

SS 111 @ 1.10 under, 399 @ 1.00 under. Having trouble with this wireless internet today. Lots of bad weather. Will post more later with observations.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

OK

I have said it before as Travis just said - if you can run 1.10 under YOU NEED horsepower added

Protect it or loose it - it is the way it has always been

My goodness what selfish peolple we have with the older combos

Its Ok for them to be able to go fast just not anyody else

GGEEZZEE

OK - back to the Alabama Auburn game


:-) peace

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Jeff, this is all this year off the new indexes? Where did you get those numbers?

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Jeff, Where is this list you are using to come up with these numbers? Simply copy and paste the runs here for all to see. Kent you should have this too. If you guys are our representatives, we racers should be able to see this information.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

to set the record straight these are the total runs for under the index for 2010
SS
-1.20 and Quicker under 28
-1.15 and Quicker under 50
-1.10 and Quicker under 108
-1.05 and Quicker under 203
-1.00 and Quicker under 396
out of total runs in SS , 11,575
Stock
-1.20 and Quicker under 81
-1.15 and Quicker under 117
-1.10 and Quicker under 229
-1.05 and Quicker under 397
-1.00 and Quicker under 689
out of total runs in Stock , 15,070

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Thanks Joe!

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Thanks Joe. Are those sea level runs or both altitude and sea level?

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Maybe I should post my flow numbers for all my cars, timing, cam specs, since I'm the rep. Nitro took car of that anyway. Besides, then I would have to kill all of you. It's on need toknow basis.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

I'm not saying 1.10 under has to be 3.25% because you are talking about over a tenth with the A/B/C cars but I think a pass of 1.10 under is deserving of 5 horsepower or maybe 1.5% which would be 6 horsepower at 400 or 5 horsepower at 300. Then let a sliding scale do its work.

Instant Triggers
1.10 = 1.5% At 400 = 6 horsepower 300 = 5
1.15 = 2% At 400 = 8 horsepower 300 = 6
1.20 = 3% At 400 = 12 horsepower 300 = 9
1.25 = 4% At 400 = 16 horsepower 300 = 12

Just an idea. Maybe a bad one but hopefully it was spark something to help a failing system.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Mike: it's very important that you and all of your fellow Division 1 racers direct all of your ideas and opinions to your Division 1 SRAC rep and Bob Lang. JB.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Jim,
If said what I wanted to. Time to get off the computer and install the nitrous. See you all next year.
Mike

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Mike: I completely understand. Jim Bailey Div.3 SRAC Rep.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Hey guys the numbers i posted was from the stats i did this year which consist of Nat events, divisional events and National opens, so that is not really all the numbers you need for AHFS as they only use Nat events and any run made -1.25 or more.
I was just wanting you to know just how many fast runs where made, that's all.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Can you separate the Drag Paks and Cobra Jets? Sorry to ask if that is too much work.

Thanks,

Don

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

It's not hard to figure out that when the trigger was 1.15 under the old indexes at national events the MOST of the racers were slowing their cars down! The way it was last year, with .3 taken off and 1 second under being the trigger (1.30 under the old indexes) that most were running all out or close to all out.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Joe: the new 2011 AHFS includes all those races. Div 3 SRAC Rep. JB.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

I verified this morning that altitude runs shown for 2010 in the total number of Stock and S/S data posted on this forum were NOT refactored back to sea level. The total run data was posted simply to show how many runs were made overall in 2010 for Stock and S/S. Looks like the committee only saw the total run data, which of course was not refactored to sea level.

That means all runs of 1.00, 1.05, 1.10, 1.15, and 1.20 under at an altitude track is included without being refactored. Those runs at altitude tracks cannot be included when talking about the total number of runs of 1.10 under the index. It also excludes altitude runs when talking about how many runs were made by new vs old cars. There were many runs made by old cars of 1.10 under at altitude tracks and are not refactored to sea level.

I therefore stand by my original numbers showing real runs of 1.10 or more under the index and which group (new vs old cars) made those runs.

OF SPECIAL NOTE......I do want to make it very clear in this post that data that went into the actual AHFS for 2010 from altitude tracks concerning any horsepower change WAS correctly refactored to sea level.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Thanks Travis.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

man those 2 just got tangled up?

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Who was that Mick???

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Travis,

The way I understand the new ahfs is that they are not going to refactor the runs back to sea level index but apply the run against the local class index. I also understand NHRA is looking at the altitude adjustments on a track by track basis. So those numbers are the numbers and classes that would of been hit in 2010 if the 1.1 under cic rule were to be put in place.

Bryon, I agree, I think we all learned lots of people have been managing their combinations and will run just under what they have to save their combinations. Key word being "most".

Mike sorry if I put words in your mouth about saving any of your brothers or your fathers combinations.

Dave I missed that one that is why I made sure I said "think" since I wasn't sure what combo you guys run. I guess when I saw Gary's or Sorenson's impressive runs and how many other cars across the country that would of been hit by these one time weather conditions and these are just a couple of the old style combinations that would of been hit.

Jim, the new rule NHRA is looking at putting in doesn't include national opens just LRDS and National events , NHRA's original proposal included national opens.


Kent

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Kent,
Is that a change with National Opens?
I thought they counted now... I got hit .15 in SS/DS back in 2004 at the Montgomery National Open when I went 1.54 under.
I thought they are counting all Nat Open runs for the AHFS.
The AHFS is one reason I have stayed away from the No Problem races.
It would be nice to be able to keep runs at those Nat opens off AHFS. It might help car counts at them, too.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Adger, the final is still being written. Used to be any run over 1.25 or 1.40 depending on the year were the only thing that counted at National Opens. I don't know if the runs over whatever the new trigger will be will get you hit in 2011. I don't think the runs under the big trigger have counted. I like that. From now on, the trigger for the initial 3.25 or larger hit will be known as "The Big Trigger".

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Adger, the No Problem race is a national event, not a national open. Therefore it would count the same as any other national, except for the CIC race

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Thanks Kent, I stand corrected... I'd forgotten that we voted to keep a system in place that doesn't work.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

That is why I stayed away. The AHFS runs always counted like a National Event. Yep, triggers and runs were counted & went into the averages. That was what I was told by a NHRA person that was supposed to know. I just didn't make that clear in the other post. I made it sound like the Sports Nationals was a National Open., sorry for the confusion. I was just trying to say if the AHFS rules were relaxed at National Opens it might help car count at some of them. It would give a racer a place to go "Show Off" under the NHRA tech guidelines. Those tech guidelines are not followed at Stock/Super Stock combo meets. So a fast run at a combo race doesn't have the prestige of the fast run at a National Open. They also don't get any ink compared to National Opens. I think sponsors and ego's like ink.
Here is an idea:
Let the bad boys go to National Opens and run fast, Set a record without getting HP or index hit.
That would still allow a little performance incentive in a performance class.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Adger, I will agree that there needs to be somewhere to let it all hang out. What if class eliminations were exempt from an instant hit, but DID cound toward the average?

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Like that idea Adger.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Chad & Adger, The Sportsnational`s are like national events, but the runs counted on the AHFS the same as a points meet, not on the average like a national event. Tom

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

The Sportsnationals are treated as points races. I went to the tower last year and Craig called California for that bit of information while I was there and then we announced it over the sound system.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Jeff,
You need to have Pat turn that sound system up a little.
I couldn't hear that announcment here at home. :~)

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

At first glance, I think that's reasonable. Class eliminations are often the ragged-edge, let it all hang out, 2qts of 0w30 w/ 1 bottle of Duralube type stuff that isn't necessarily indicative of the "normal" run. Now, if you're out there belting out -1.10 under runs in bracket mode, then I'm sorry, your combination is not factored correctly and needs to be adjusted.

$.02,

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

I agree.

Re: 2011 ahfs
 

Arkansas didn't pay the 'over the border news tax' to Louisiana. Now you know.