Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I agree, and think it was a good move. Fewer games.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I leave first most of the time and could really care less if the rule is changed but i will say I think it's a good idea. Every time one of these debates came up I would wonder if the right person would introduce something like this would it be possible. I think it's an interesting idea and has the right person backing it.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I like it....long overdue....

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

..

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

For everybody but the stick guys.......

I have rolled into the pre-stage first and looked down at my gauges and when I looked up the stick car had both lights lit.......

Now I let the stick car light his pre-stage and slow everything down...

I am not the brightest bulb but I can learn....

Bob

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I don't think any stick guy is doing this intentionally but you realize it takes more time for us to go in. In order to not hold up the guy in the other lane, I'm pretty much going to start the procedure as soon as both cars are prestaged. I'm trying to be a good guy, not trying to mess up the guy in the other lane.

I also thought the idea of instant green was pretty comical. If we go to instant green, you can kiss any stick car goodbye. I'm going to build a SS/AM car with a trans brake, pretty safe bet that guy is going to win every time.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

On June 25th 2012, BigShow2966 posted: "Bill just tried a round about way to revive the old Steve Taylor "Pink light rule" It is just as pointless now as it was then."

Would you like to tell Peter Biondo, Kyle Seipel and, Bob Brockmeyer your feelings about that,? I'm sure they'd be very interested in your thoughts on the subject..

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

What is the violation there? You prestaged first, so the only Courtesy Staging violation would be for you to stage before he is prestaged.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I will be ok with this if fast cars that spin there tires get a rerun.... if I lose my gimme round so do slow cars

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

You should try hooking a "slow" car with WAAAAY too much gear and converter sometime. At least a "fast" car will somewhat recover. I won't even get into how much a "slow" car swings with weather and wind changes.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Yeah, bummer, lol.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

There was no violation of the Auto-Start and I never said that there was....

It's legal but it’s not courtesy.........

Bob

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Violation of Courtesy Staging is what I meant. And I'm still not following what you think did not follow Courtesy Staging in your scenario.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

What do you know about the staging process for Stock Eliminator cars???

It's a bit different from Super Street or Super Gas.....

Bob

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I bracket race far more than I Super-Class race, and most often bottom bulb/footbrake. To my knowledge, Courtesy Staging means that neither driver fully stages until both drivers have prestaged.

You prestaged first, which means the other driver is free to light both bulbs. If you are careless and decide to check your gauges without seeing where the other car is in his process and he decides to roll right into the Stage bulb, that does not translate to stick drivers not honoring Courtesy Staging as you stated.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I never said that it was a violation.....

If you get you get it, if you don't you don't.....

Footbrake on.....

Bob

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Not that it really matters, and I know this is off-topic, but...

implies that the stick guys are not courtesy staging.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I really don`t care how the stick racer`s are staging when I run them. Courtesy Staging eliminated additional options on when some racers enter the stage beam regardless of transmission they are running or running against.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Maple grove raceway announced today they upgraded to and will run truSTART this year in their bracket, junior and index programs. They are the 23rd track to upgrade so far.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Do you have a list of the tracks who upgraded?

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I am not sure why this is related to stick car. This could be done and is done by many cars. Stick and auto. If you are implying that stick cars can't or don't bump in after prestaging, I would disagree. In cars that I drive that have a stage gauge, I typically bump in. In ones that don't I generally don't. I never considered that to be a component of courtesy staging and certainly don't use it as any kind of starting line game. Just because you prestige first doesn't mean you get to stage first. Am I missing something?

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I get it.....................

You said I 5 times..............

Not ALL but a LOT of stick cars wait for the other car to stage and then roll in and don't stop at the after the pre-stage......

This is NOT illegal in the eyes of Auto-Start.....

But, almost all automatic cars stop after they light the pre-stage and have there own procedure to run through before staging. Such as bringing to engine up to leave RPM and bumping in or rolling in at idle, set the brakes and bring it up on the the 2-step

My comment was if I (ME) stage last against a stick car then it forces the stick car to stop after they light the pre-stage and then they just can't roll in in light both.......

Bob

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

It will be interesting to see how Allen Reinhardt will take to the new tree if nhra considers it. On Joe Costello's radio show back in 2011 he was totally opposed to the idea because the fast car has to wait, he should get the knod.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I thought the fast car waited anyway?

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Ed, you are right! Yes, he gets to wait but with Trustart, he has to do his job after he waits. It's about time that the tree is going to be fixed. A fix you rejected back a few years ago if I remember right.

Casey Miles
248H Stock

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

No worries Bob, I am a stick racer. I have raced automatics as well. There isn't really an advantage to "just rolling in" for me anyway" every racer has stuff to do after three bulbs are lit. I do think it is plenty of time for stick or auto racers to get prepared though. I guess I have never been one to always stage first or last all of the time. If we ever get to race, I will certainly let you prestage first if you prefer. LOL.
Six "I's" this time. A new personal best.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Congrats to Peter Biondo and Kyle Seiple for their apparent success at innovation. It takes vision, courage, sacrifice, and commitment ... all good qualities.

"a system that systematically scorns experimentation and wipes out the raw material of innovation, is doomed over the long term"
-Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows, P. 160

The above book BTW helped to radically alter my perception of the role of sanctioning bodies in sport. Also, the book is now available online for free download in a couple different places. A GREAT book if you can get past some of the examples used.

I've been home for a couple weeks recuperating from surgery. This thread was "just what the doctor ordered." lol

Doug

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Looks like it would have been in effect at least 4 times that I saw today at zmax. 3 pairs in round 2 stock and at least one that I saw in round 1 super stock.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Seemed like an unusual amount of red lights at Charlotte....

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Just a thought on the pre stage/stage thing. If my opponent pre stages can I not
go in and light both bulbs?
Terry K

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Got tired of reading all those posts, hope I don't repete any. First, S/S and Stock is a bracket race, don't think it's not. Second, this system makes everyone, fast or slow, race your tree, no easy outs. He red lites, game was over, not any more now. Ever hear of some racer dialing slower than the other guy? They won't do it, they want him to red lite first. Been that way forever. We all do it, look for the slower car to race to get any advantage.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

It's about time,a system that does not improve with time is a system due to disappear. I had started a post a while back and was crusified for such suggestion. Time changes which is what we want. just because the other car is faster doesn't mean he should have an easy one, he should pluck at the tree also. I hope NHRA moves on this system soon. They sure were quick at removing deep staging.CR

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Yes, you can.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Thank you, Michael, for the reply.
Terry Knapper

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

How many races were decided by worst red light at the 'Fling ? How many total rounds were run at the race ? Thanks

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

I did the $40K race on Thursday.

The tree was activated 454 times.

In 89 pair, there was at least one red light. (19.6%)

In 4 pair, there were double red lights. (0.9%)

Of those, 3 pair had the slower car winning the race with the lesser red light. (0.7% overall)

I've analyzed a few races, and this is definitely at the low end of the spectrum as far as double red lights.

The eventual runner-up (round 9 loser) would have lost in round 5 going -.003 in his slow door car to his quicker opponent's -.026 light.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Larry this is all I found just 1 class on Saturday



Super Pro Round 1 of Saturday's race.

467 cars went down the track. 75 of them (16%) drew a red bulb.

Of 233 pairs (plus a bye car), 68 pairs (29.2%) featured at least one red light.

7 pairs (3.0%) had double red lights.

3 pairs (1.3%) had double red lights with the slower car getting the win.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

These numbers are pretty typical.

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Are they trying to fix a 1% problem?

Re: TruSTART looks to level the playing field.
 

Are they trying to fix a 1% problem?

Larry: Whether it's 1% or .01%, the tree should be fixed. Also, you are talking about top bulb racers at the Spring Fling, it would probably be a different story on a bottom bulb race. The faster car shouldn't just mosey on down the track or get a bye run because the slower car fouled, make everyone take their chance at the tree. No disrespect, just a different side of the story. We can't wait for our local track to get the new feature in the timing system, it would make a huge difference in the end of the year track champion.

Casey Miles
248H Stock