Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks Jack for the heads up on the book. Much appreciated.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

It sounded that way to me too. However, Danny cleared things up so that's not the case. Anyway, here's a larger size photo of picture in question:

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/661...rayrixman2.png

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

M68,, thanks for covering my back side,,, I appreciate it.
Let me address this "hostility" thing right here and now. I said there was no offense taken and I meant it. That being said,,, we all know there are many contributors on here and many other forums that post literally thousands of photographs for our enjoyment and/or education. I believe for the most part, everyone is pretty good at acknowledging where the posted photos come from. Some are from magazines or newspapers and other sources and of course, many are from personal collections that have been put together from decades of shooting action at the tracks.
I know that there are many of my personal photos out there in "interspace", and occasionally some will show up here in a given thread. I'm sure I'm not the only one this happens to, and I'm okay with it.
If I post a photograph that I didn't take, I will note who's photo it is,, a case in point, division 6 photographer Rich Carlson used to sell 8x10 glossies at car shows many years ago, and I bought dozens, they were so cool. If I post one of those glossies I always note its a Rich Carlson photo. However 99% of the pictures I post are from my camera from over 45 years, in my travels, of shooting drag racing. Its about getting it right, and I appreciate it when the other posters on here do their part to keep things straight. If someone points out a correction, and we see them on here from time to time, theres no hostility intended, at least that I can see. Its certainly nothing worth anyone getting their shorts in a knot about.. My 2 cents,, ( actually that was about a buck/ninetyeight)!
By the way,, I appreciate it when you guys can blow up my images, since I've yet to figure how to do that myself.
Danny Durham

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

You're welcome. Just telling it like it is.

I didn't enlarge your photo, that's the size I downloaded from your Photobucket page:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...e.png~original

Anyway, to blow up a picture you need an image editor. You can either buy the software, use pre-installed image editor program on your computer or use one of the web-based image editors. I like to use Pixlr. It's free, pretty versatile and has many special effects filters. Here's the link:

http://pixlr.com/

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Not sure if this photo was posted to this thread already (and I'm not about to go searching to see if it was).

http://imageshack.us/a/img706/4299/rumblebee.jpg

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I see there was a Dart at the Mecum auction, from Indy, on TV tonight. I thought I heard the announcers say it was a real one. It was around $115,000 when they rolled it off,, not sure if it sold. It was a kind of copper colored 4 speed car with Cragars. I didn't catch the history on it,, not even sure they elaborated on it. Maybe someone here knows something about the car.
Danny Durham

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

This car belonged to my Uncle Al Faretta of Altoona Pa. He and my father Mike Faretta owned Valley Motors which was a Chrysler Plymouth dealership. I remember Sox & Martin coming to the dealership to put on one of their Super Car Clinics. In the late 60's we had this Cuda plus the 340 Cuda from S&M. We also had their Hemi Road Runner and 440 GTX.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mr. Sudsaroo,

That 68' Hemi Barracuda is a long leap from the 1965 273 Valiant

(Photo from 1966)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7...lleymotors.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Wow! You just made my whole week with this photo. I'm so happy I found this site. The Valiant was one of my family's first attempt to go into racing. But I have to tell you that I don't remember it ever being a 273. I remember it with a 440 and running in B/MP but understand that I would have been about 11 or 12 years old at the time of this picture. But for me, the real prize is seeing the man with his back to the camera. That's Bill McCloskey. beside his Stiles/Stahl Plymouth. He was always had fast cars, a chew in his mouth and he didn't mind throwing a punch if he felt it was called for. He worked for my dad and uncle as a mechanic when we had the Sox & Martin cars. Memories, memories, memories.......this is outstanding!

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I received my Schild book yesterday and I am impressed with the info in the book.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

According to the Mecum site, this Dart bid to $125,000 and "The Bid Goes On"....it has a 3 speed?...I have a feeling there might be more ???s

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Sudsaroo,

The photo is from 1966.

I think the Valiant is a 'Signet' (Hardtop with Exterior Trim).

The 1965 Signet was a 273 (see the fender lettering), and I believe it was a 273/235 HP 'Commando',
and should have been classed in F/S or F/SA in 1966 (11.89 to 12.49 Wt/Hp).

The Signet weighed in at about 100 lbs. heavier than the Valiant.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Joe Ralph Thompson from Rison, Arkansas lost his battle with cancer last Sunday, May 12th. He was 82.

Joe Ralph raced an original hemi dart that he bought new from Mr. Norm. He loved the 426 hemi until he took his last breath. RIP

Phil Wilson
Sheridan, AR

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

A true racer/legend from my teenage days. http://aecc.com/annualreport/img/sta...h-Thompson.jpg

God's speed sir.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...g?t=1230728498

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
You are certainly correct about the engine. Seeing is believing! But as I said before I was about 11 years old when that photo was taken and I'm now 58 so my memory of a lot of racing days is foggy at best. Thank you for sharing the photo though. Are you from central Pa? I'm sure this was taken at Peterson Memorial Dragway in Tipton Pa.

Thanks,
Mike Faretta

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Yeah,,, You're probably right.
Danny Durham

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I haven't had much time lately to visit this thread due to the time I've been spending getting my car ready for the season. It's had alot of upgrades since the last time I drove it a couple years ago when I bounced 3 valves off the piston tops due to 2 different deck heights. Leason learned---- NEVER ASSUME just because you measure one deck that both are the same height......... Even when both were freshly machined. Passenger side was .040" shorter. I purchased it this way a few years ago.
Forward to today. The elfunt's back in it's rightfull place finally. Should be ready to fire in a couple days.
I fiqured in the next few posts to give you a tour of what's being done to the car in the months previous of many hours.

The base for this build is an original 1968 casting 426 block & heads. Crank is a Crower 1/2" stroke with 2.200" rod pins so I could use the BB Chevy 7.0 Crower connecting rods with the small .990" wrist pins. Lighter reciprocating mass, less clearancing issues, & easier to get bearings for. It displaces 492 CI.
Compression was kept to 12.8-1, because fuel to fire it is ALOT cheaper than fuel needed for a 14-1 motor.( And it'll have way nuff power this way anyway.)

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psc63e0ef7.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8ae3287c.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a48e069.jpg


liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Cylinder heads have been worked abit, flow benched, & will support around 900 hp. I went with only a .700" Crower roller so there wouldn't be the high maintence involved with a larger stick. I ran out of time, so it didn't make it to the dyno, but if my calculations are right it'll make an easy 750 hp with more than likey 800. The only thing holding it back from making more is the stock, as cast magnesium intake. I ain't touching that one. I have an old Edelbrock crossram that will have some extensive rework done to it. Hopefully I won't turn it into a large pile of aluminum alloy. It would be alot easier to throw on a sheet metal onto it, to make some good numbers, but I want the old school look and the challenge.

liteweight

Intake ports
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psfcd35b00.jpg

Exhaust ports
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps600f32d4.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5287a2bc.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

What was the deck height of that block? It looks like it might have been an old SS block that had been cut around .100". I have one of Bullet Bob's old blocks I got from Jim Hale via Tommy Slaughter. The valley rail had been cut too and it left a flat like yours.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I have an old Barnett SS Hemi with a similar deck height based on the flat. I haven't pulled the heads off of it to measure that one.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

James
I'll need to go back to my notes to get that deck height for you. Ol' guy syndrome has once again reared it's ugly head. You have a couple very neat pieces there. Are they unscathed from their war time battles?

Here's a shot of the crank scraper that a buddy of mine lazer cut.... The aluminum spacer plate is to gain hole in pan to center link clearance. There's a home made screen style windage tray that bolts to the main caps also.

liteweight
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psb74b7e3d.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Milodon rear sump pan with dual external pickup. Fuel pump is a Race Pumps mechanical, so when I ordered the cam it needed a lobe for it.

liteweight

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psb3b0bbe8.jpg

Milodon gear drive with hand fabbed timing tab. This stocker fuel pump is going in for the time being as I've ran out of time to redo the fuel system on the car to accommodate the Race Pump.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6b252507.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb69f93b.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Looks good liteweight, she's gonna be a beast with that motor in her.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

looking at post #2378 of the cylinder head pictures--- I noticed you have a plate epoxied to the intake face--- I need a similiar product for a project I am doing. What is the product you used and where did you get it? Thanx for the info really enjoy this thread brings back lotsa memories to us old racers (I'm 70+)--

-funny the posts and views this thread has had over the years all starting with " Hi my name is Daryl and I'm new to this forum"

Regards FED387

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Looks good Daryl, are you going to Farmington, MN for the Mopar Show?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

thanx Craig. It's been a long, EXPENSIVE haul

That's the plan. It'll be in the same building as the Sox & Martin display of over 20 of their original cars. There will be another Canuk from next province over too. Dave McDade will be debuing his original LO car in it's new original paint scheme. The Gene Oneil's Gene's Speed Shop SS/B Dart. I've only seen pictures of it so far. All I can say is "Holy crap"' it looks good. Right down to the gold leaf

See you there???? Might even have a few of those Canadian beer on ice for you that you American guys seem to enjoy so much.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

never in my wildest dream would I have imagined that first post would have turned into what it has. The credit goes to many people, not me, for making it what it is today.
The epoxy I use is called Metal Set A4. I use it everywhere. Great, great stuff that has a long working time, easy to work, & contours easily once set.

http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy,-Sili...178/index.html

I get it from a local aircraft supply store. Not sure where you'll find it down south, but if you google it, you'll probably be able to purchase it online like here.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...illedepoxy.php

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl-- got the info already ordered the stuff will see how it works out---any tricks on using it or do we just go by the old "trial & error" method??? Good luck on finding the pedigree of your car.. Regards Dick Ullrich FED387

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanx Dick
Mix it 1 to 1 & have a spritz water bottle on the bench to work it. You can also use the old tried & true method of spit, but licking your finger afterwards is not suggested as most aircraft chemicals I work with are not too human friendly. It has a fairly long work time so you can get it shaped to what you need. I use tongue compressor sticks & cut them to the shape I need.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl, do you have any pics of engine compartment with the motor out. I'm looking mostly for the motor mounts and k frame. I am getting ready to put my motor in and don't want to use a motor plate. Also what headers are you using, I'm using tti's new ones. Just trying to find out what the original stuff should look like.
Thanks
Bob

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I will see you in Farmington as I am bringing one of the Sox and Martin 68 Barracudas. If anyone is interested it is for sale for $250K. It was originally one of the Billy Stepp cars and owned a couple of times by S&M.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I was at Mecum and that car is the Eddie Smith car that was bought at Mr, Norms then sold to Max Hurley. I believe Max raced it with a 3-speed. I know that Reed Koeppe in Nebraska found it then sold it after I bought the Max Hurley 71 Super Stock Demon that I sold to buy my Hemi Dart. Also at Mecum the first Billy Stepp car bid to 100K and did not meet reserve.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

hey Craig
I'm leaving for that show Thursday May 28, & will be driving by Grand Forks around noon. What say you we meet for lunch at a good burger joint. Is there a Hardee's in Forks anymore? we don't have any of those joints up here in Manitoba & I try to get at least one double cheese & curly fries in per US visit.
Hey, I might even be convinced to unload my car & take a certain good ol boy Bowtie guy for a hoot & holler ride if the weather & roads are good. You never know, I might be able to convince you to come over to the dark side. It'll be a ride you won't soon forget, me's thinkin.

liteweight

ps Don's riding shotgun with me for the weekend.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl: Is it Tuesday May 28th or Thursday May 30th that you are coming through GFKS? On Tuesday the 28th I have a county board meeting, but on Thursday May 30th I have clear day with no meetings. The Hardees on Columbia Road is still open and I would enjoy a lunch with you and Don. I think we can find a place to unload that dart too! Next year I hope my 67 camaro project car will be done and I will bring it up to the Garden City Mall show in Wpg and I will return the favor, I will furnish the Depends!!! Lets stay in touch on your travel times.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Craig
my bad, too many late nights. Yup, your right it's Thursday May 30. Should be leaving 8:00-9:00 am & depending on the border patrol. We'll be in Forks by noon. Bring some pictures of that car.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Bob
So you want to install a Hemi in a A body using factory mounts?????. Your a brave man Hope you have alot of patience, specially if your using box headers (Hooker/TTI etc.). If you want to use an external oil pickup system, stay with a single line, because a dual line is ALMOST not doable without doing alot of cutting OR fabricating of mounts, & creating a new pickup port in the pump body because the "as delivered" ports will now allow for that second line.
As your probably aware Hurst/Chrysler utized the welded steel mounts on the K member from Hemi B Bodies to build the original Hemi A cars.The rubber insulators were also used.
The tubes they used were Hooker 2" & were delivered with a street hemi pan. This combination worked as is but did not allow for the oiling required for a high winding Hemi. So, the cutting started on both the drivers side mount & steering box mount.
Now getting back on track to your install, the easiest will no doubt be an engine plate with a torque restrictor to limit fore & aft. movement.This will allow for dual external oiling & lots of header clearance
If your interested in this next option, pm me & I'll give you the name/number of a buddy who fabricates 2 different Hemi A body K members as complete bolt in kits utilizing original style mounts, original K members & suspension . The first one he designed a few years back that locates the engine a little lower than stock, which allows for much needed trans tunnel/ header clearance. This K member will accomodate box headers. You'll have to ask him about 2 1/8" tho. I believe it'll only work with a single feed external oil system.
The other K member he has available is a direct replacement of the originals, location wise. I know that because he borrowed my original to build his jig.
My Hemi install is a little unique as I'm using an unmodified original style K member with custom built headers, custom fabbed engine mount made from DOM 1 3/4" tubing & a modified Milodon dual oiling system. MANY, MANY hours were spent making this work & all clearances for everything in that area are minimal. 1/16" is the difference of something fitting or interfering.
This is the passenger side mount
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM0988-1.jpg

This is the drivers side mount
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM0982-1.jpg

If you closely you can see the new oil location at the bottom of the pump. The original 2 rear pickup locations remain plugged
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM0984-1.jpg
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...HPIM0986-1.jpg

This is the almost ready to install assembly. Tubes are custom made . 2 1/8" primaries, 4" collectors. Passenger side is 2 piece, Drivers side is 5 piece. I need to remove both torsion bars, both tie rod assemblies, center link, have no starter or even the drain plg in the block to get them in. I can't even have the header gasket glued to the head for install, because the thickness of that gasket won't allow #1 tube to go in, even with the engine lifted. The gasket needs to be slipped in after the headers installed.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psb60967d7.jpg

have I scared you yet? They're not all this tight. I sold Dave McDade an original unmodified Hemi A Body K member & he installed it with the motor attached from the bottom. He dropped the body over the assembly. Valve covers were off tho. I don't believe he has an external oil system & I think his tubes are 2". Feel free to ask whatever you need to get that elfunt installed, & I'll do what I can to help you out.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Thanks Daryl:
That sure looks like a nice setup you have there.
My motor is a pump gas motor with only 580 lift cam and 10:1 compression, built to be a daily driver if I so choose, 550 hp 516 tq. Internal oiling and stock valve train, with stock type chrome valve covers. I am doing the shock tower mod to give me a little more room if I decide to change heads and valve train. I'm pretty sure I will be putting it in from the bottom as I have spoken to quite a few who have done it that way and say its a lot easier. The pics you posted help a lot, thanks. I will be taking my car to my chassis guy in a couple weeks once I make a decision on what bell housing to use, my car is a stick car.

I guess one question, what torsion bars are running.

Is your k member guys name Denny?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Those kind of numbers will more than knock your socks off in that car & be street friendly too.. You'll enjoy it, specially rowin' gears doing it..
You won't regret doing the shock tower mod.
You'll probably want to put a scattershield on it for your toes sake, a 2 piece with access from the bottom is preferable. Depending on engine location, will dictate whether you"ll have to modify the firewall to floorpan flange & you may want to drill holes in the firewall for the top 2 bellhousing retaining bolts, then install those snap in plugs.

I'm currently running the small block bars in my car. I tried the 6 cyl. ones, but didn't like them because of excessive front end rise, & they were wound too tight for my comfort, street driving it.

My K member connection is Al in WI.

liteweight

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

After many,many hours of cheet & abuse that it has provided for me, it's finally alive.
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps66e75240.jpg

When it barked to life, the hair on my arms stood at attention. To describe what it sounds like is best done through a quotation my buddy yelled @ me last night while it was warming up. "That ain't no 10 sec. motor."
I just smiled
I tend to agree with him.
I love it when a plan comes together

Giddyup............................

liteweight

ps. the build tour will continue.


http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...l/HPIM0060.jpg

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Ok "Hannibal",requesting audio/video asap.

Share the experience with the rest of us.

I have a mop and bucket to clean up the expected drool.