Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

Is anyone going to build a NEW car knowing that it is going to be at an disadvantage from the start? That is why NEW cars are being built and raced. It is not that hard to figure out. Have you priced out bodywork lately on an old rusty 60's muscle car, a new car is the only way to go. Dyno

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

As has been discussed in another post - everybody can forget about "Showroom Cars" ( with vin numbers). The Copo Camaro, Mustang Cobra Jet, and Drag Pac Challenger as purchased from the factory, with the addition of "Showroom" windows and controls, with period correct hoods, grills, bumpers, and lights are going to be legal in traditional stock eliminator classes.... It's already here folks.... You'll see more and more Showroom Street engine combinations approved by NHRA, and these combos will get plunked into the factory hotrods and they will be running AA through G or lower Stock Classes. Did you think for one minute that the new cars would be kept outta traditional Stock classes ? The future is here, the old muscle cars are dying with there owners. -Get use to it - or how about a now famous quote - " At This Point, What difference does it make " - LOL.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

OK Bailey, my quarterly, yearly, or weekly proposal: Speed Up the Old Cars; 10% off prior to the LT1 period, 5% off up 2008, just need a good Excel person. Then we would all have bogus cars. Problem solved. Someone might have to equalize some of the platforms. Since I don't have one, I don't equalize. (Chuck Rayburn Rule)

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

Jeff, it's not just a simple matter of "Speeding Up" the older cars. The last I looked, this was still being called Stock Eliminator and some of what is being done to these cars is far from what can be considered (in rule or spirit) stock. NHRA has to come up with some way to "standardize" what is being done to these new, newer and IRS cars. I know for a fact that they are trying their best to do so having (very) recently spoken and corresponded with them as I am dealing with one of these (what I'll call) problem cars.
IMHO, what would (probably) be the easiest thing to do would be, using the C-5 Corvette as an example, approve a "kit" and make THAT the standard for that car. I'm using the Moser kit for this consideration. NHRA has always had "Go-To" chassis guys who, I'm sure, can come up with some kind of readily available "kit" that could be approved and become the "standard" for that car. And even if that "kit" weren't used in a particular build, the build would have to generally conform to the "kit".
FWIW, I'd like to advise anyone doing one of these cars to contact NHRA in Indy and talk to them first. I wouldn't just start building without doing so or you may just find yourself being awfully sorry down the road. They are gathering info on these cars and there are a bunch of "cans-and-can'ts" already in place.
Just my .02!

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

NHRA has a long policy of allowing and encouraging converting IRS into straight axle in Stock and I think it is a requirement in SS. The oldest I know of in Stock is Sammy Pizzalato's 427 Vette. He and Mark Oswald did his car. I think they have a allowable conversion for all IRS cars. The DP, Copo and SCJ were allowed as produced except the DP which had an allowable conversion which had to follow engineers drawings that came with each car as they had no rear. The conversion of the showroom cars is considered a safety factor. I assume the C5 Corvette is the Sherman and Cummins types. I know Moser makes a package which I assume is the NHRA allowable for that car. I also know we have a Viper that a friend of mine has run for years, a 97 model. As we souped it up about 9.50 or so and about 135-140 with the IRS, you weren't driving the car past 1000 ft. You were just hoping it kept going straight. We put a cage and 4 link in it with a straight axle and it became very safe and driveable. We later got the car to about 9.20 and about 150 and is very good at those times. And maybe I am not following your thought train. On the HP reduction, take Bailey (who always starts this stuff), his car is about 450 factored, drop that 10%, or 45 @ 7 lbs or 315 lbs. 3 or 4 tenths about. And I think a U/SA (my favorite class), I think the weight reduction might be in that range. Moveable weight at that. I think anyone with an IRS racing today, either has not converted or has not asked NHRA. If I'm going to be bogus, I want all my friends to come with me; the Hills, the Nolans, the Baileys, and even the people who don't like me. If you like me, you have to buy the beer, if you don't like me, you probably don't talk to me anyway.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

Jeff, yes NHRA does have a long policy of encouraging and allowing converting IRS into straight axles. I was involved in the beginnings of that too. BUT, they never standardized anything. Some cars must run the original trailing arms, some must run a 4-link and some must run a torque-arm and unless you ask, you don't know just what must run what. There are cars with bars added, shocks moved, coil-overs added.
As far as the beer thing, I'd buy you a beer anytime! I probably owe you a few.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

I assumed each model had one allowable conversion. Does it just have to be approved on each car or as we say "pass tech". I do know there is only for the Challengers, and there is one for the Vipers in SS, but no one has one. I know they measured a few Mopars, and looked at mine, but I didn't see a tape measure, but I was away from the car when they were under it. And beer is good. Price comparison between Brownsberg and Houma. Houma 18.99 a case of 24 twelve ounce cans and Brownsberg 36 cans same price, plus we got more sales tax like 10.5% which is worse than an old 396 Chevrolet.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

BEER, now I'm interested in this thread. At first I was just thinking of getting a new (insert brand) car for U/SA. You know, one with a little power plant that would fit into U/SA. But the HP ratings won't let me. I believe that I would have to get a 4 cylinder to fit, due to HP rating, but that is a W/SA. Just doesn't make sense, then I would be a double U.

Now, back to this beer thing. God is Great, Beer is Good and People are Crazy.

Ron Ortiz
UU/SA burp.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

Ron, a couple of items. One, beer is really good. Real problem with Indy as I am short one unit to carry beer, but we are working on it. Second, while this discussion was going on, I thought about you. I think your wagon is a 66 in U/SA. I couldn't remember if you had a 318 Poly, a 273, or a 318. When Greg mentioned the 72 formula for factory power because Andrew got the new power facctor applied to his pre-new power car, I seem to remember that the 318 67 till death went from 230 hp to 169 hp and I was wondering how that would work in your car. I was thinking about Captain Jack also, but I don't really know what power plant that monster has, I thought a 283. Then I had a couple beers and got to thinking about Jim Boudreau(x) and got a general idea from an engineer friend of mine that low 20% is most adjustment by the new SAE formula used in 72, so I had another beer and used a 375 69 hp number, subtracted 22% and came up with 292 hp I think. Now using the Hill & Hill logic, Jim has a bogus car waiting for the correction. Now I don't know what NHRA will do with the 45 years of experience on that particular motor. Short version is how would your car do at 169 HP. Would you be bogus with us? And I got two choices on the beer transport; Since we only got one motor home (the other didn't survive the woods) and are taking one and a dualie with a single trailer, I could load the back with beer, but I worry about the exposure to the elements, or we could bring a small amount (10 or so cases) which in Louisiana cost 18.99 plus too much sales tax in our great state, and get my lovely ladies from the Midwest to secure 36 packs from the supermarket in Brownsburg at the same price and less sales tax. Ron, I am sure you can help me here.

Re: Another bogus new car in the guide!
 

Mr Jeff I can't help you with all that trigonometry you got going on there but one thought did come to mind as I was reading your post. I am very surprised that a man of your stature( no pun intended) doesn't have some kind of beer contract. I would've thought you guys could get free beer and delivered cold most anywhere in the lower 48!