Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul you might be corect, but I can;t recal any 426HEMI on the front. When Sam and I picked up the Cuda Ronnie had a match race with the dragon lady at a track in Va.We went there that day, Sam paid Buddy and we loaded the car and took the whole rig (car, cewcab truck, and trailer) back to Sam's car lot in Md. Might add the car had aluminum heads on it at the time and was in match race trim.ET;s that day were in the 10.4's-10.5's.Sam drove it the rest of the yeart till he put me in the seat later that year.At the end of the season Sam sold the cuda to me along with rig and spare parts.The next March I took the car to Cicle County,after we had found a bad ground cable in the trunk, and made three 10.2's, with no outher changes to the car. Bet Ronnie had been chaseing that problem for some time!!! It was dumb luck on my part that we found it.NOTE, on the trunk lid was (THE BEAP BEAP BEAT GOES ON) .

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jack,
It always perplexed me, to find out what that little scrol-design was on the
front-center grille (upper portion). I'll post the site where I found it, so you can check it out too. All the Super Stockers at York had "X's" on the window, instead of the SS/B. Jenkins ran his 68" SS/C Camaro with a
tunnel-ram in the X/SS "Heads-Up" match. I imagine all Hemi cars ran in match race trim, aluminum heads and roller cams for the Super Stock
Magazine sponsored event. Two weeks later they were at Indy, for the
Nationals. Ground wire,,,,,,,,sounds positively negative;).......................
If you got the car in match-race trim, that means you had to be at Dover Drag Strip, Wingdale, NY in 1970, in Pro/Stock. I have to see if I have
results of the meet. Rich Mirarcki/Bill Blandings "MIMI" 427 Camaro was doing a number on all the Mopars back then at Dover. Hope I can find that you outran him.:)
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J.

Here goes. Check THE H.A.M.B. site, go to the NHRA Junior Stock
forum. Page 55, post #1094. Photo of the 69' NHRA Winternationals,
(February 69'), staging lane shot of all the stockers. Upper right, 68'
Hemi Super Stock (SS/BA) Cuda. NHRA #719. Center-stripe hood only,
kind of like a Sox & Martin paint scheme. Can't see the name of the
driver on the passengers side door. But the name above "Plymouth" looks like Bender or Senker or Benker????
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

It says "Denver" and unless my eyes are deceiving me, the driver's name is "Judy Lilly."

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mopar Steve,
Thanks for clearing that up. I was so used to Judy Lilly's paint scheme, that I was not sure of that one. The name on the door looks like
Judy Lilly. And the car, does have a Sox & Martin paint scheme. Though only FRAM, SW and HOOKER emblems on front fender. I wasn't aware that she got a Hemi Cuda so early. I'm also guessing, probably
Denver Plymouth Dealers Association (the part we cannot see).
Does anyone have an accurate guess, to how many Cuda's, the
Burlington, NC team of Sox & Martin put out there. Not all could have been original BO29 cars. Must have been in the early Christmas present shipment of cars in September 68.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jack,,,,
If you go to the site www.thevintageracer.com go to York US30 Dragway,
the Jere Stahl collection of photo's. The 69' X/SS meet, with your
Cuda there (soon to be yours). Several pictures with the little scroll-design on the front grille. In a close-up, I got "426 Hemi" in gold lettering.
The letters don't appear much larger than 2". Also, check out the monster tunnel-ram on Jenkins 68' Camaro, with a 427 (Not sure if it was a ZL-1
All-Aluminum engine in there) in several of the photo's. The Holley carbs look like thirsty 770-CFM units...
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

I think it was said by either Ronnie or Buddy that they had over a dozen '68(9?) Barracudas pass through their hands. Mark J would probably know more.

Question about the early Christmas present, Sept. of '68 would have been a '69 car. Do you mean '67?

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins ran the 430 inch "CAN AM" Alum.block in his X/SS and later Pro stock 68 Camaro. Larger bore shorter stroke (higher RPM potential) than the regular ZL-1 block but they were rare and hard to get. He had connections yet only had a couple of blocks on hand during the 1970 season. .

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

X-Tech Man,
I am not a Chevy guy, but that 68' Camaro of Jenkins does impress me.
Now for a mind-bender. At the 69' Super/Stock Magazine Nationals at York (8/10/69), Charlie Castaldo won the S/S event with his SS/BA
Hemi Dart, yet Bill Jenkins won the All-Enduro Super Stock Eliminator
with his 69' ZL-1 All-Aluminum engine Camaro...Does that sound correct??
What the hell was the All-Enduro Eliminator?? Pro/Stock type Heads-Up
racing?
Mopar Steve, It was either September or October 68'. Right after the end of the 68' production year, and beginning of the 69' production run. I have to research Sox & Martin shop photo's. Photo's taken inside the garage and out through the garage door. (4) new Cuda's on a transporter.
(2) 68's with the round fender side-lights, and (2) with the reactangle-shaped side lights.
paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Not quite,,,,Grump won with his 68 Camaro. I believe Grump red lighted on purpose in one of the finals of the "ENDURO" to allow the Schallcross Bros. to advance in points with their 66 Nova as it had a Jenkins motor in it and Grump already had enough points to have the overall win. I had to edit this slightly from my post while I was at work as I was thinking about it on the way home from work and its a little off what you asked but I think this is how it went . Jenkins 1969 ZL-1 was still a Super Stock C and C automatic car in 1969. Strickler was driving his own SS/D (iron block 425 HP) and tried to run SS/DA at the world finals of 1969 with his engine in Al Olsters "One Step Beyond". Both Strickler and Jenkins were not allowed to run the auto trans at the world finals because they hadnt run the auto combo during the year at any of the points races so Grumpy switched back to a 4 speed but couldnt cut the record in SS/C to qualify.. Strickler just sat and watched. The 69 ZL-1 Camaro of Grumpys was made into a Pro stocker later on and was driven by Dave Strickler in 1970 part time. Gezzzzz Im old and I have to think about this stuff for awhile to try to get it correct. It was 40 years ago.....LOL.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

X-Tech-Man, You are the man. I don't think anyone would want to challenge that info, that you posted. No wonder that Grumpy and Sox/Martin had to have 3 or 4 cars. Had to, to run in NHRA-legal S/S trim, Match-race events, X/SS (Pro/Stock) and one car for testing.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Daryl,
Pomona Dart,,,Ended up in Tompkins Cove, another small town in Rockland County, NY. Went to some Sunoco?? Gas station (81'/82') which may still be there? At least that's what I have on the info dept.
NorthEast Darts (not including New Jersey, Pennsylvania)
1) Bill Flynn, New Haven, Conn. "Yankee Peddler", County Dodge
2) Joseph Patelli, Springfield, Mass. "Deb's Machine", Hampden Dodge
3) Gene O'Neill, Worcester, Mass. "Gene's Auto Racing Equipment"
4) Bob Ramstrom, Worcester, Mass. "Natick Dodge" (thru Mr. Norm's)
5) Chick Brignolo, Norton, Mass. "Play Thing" (thru Mr. Norm's)
6) Chuck McJury, Schenectady, NY "PlayMate", Cicero Dodge
7) Charlie Lendrum, Westerlo, NY " Northern Shaker", Albany Dodge
8) S & K Speed Shop, West Babylon, NY (Bryan Higgins/Ernie Krieg)
9) Joe Jill, Happauge, L.I., NY "Speedwin Engineering"
10) Charlie Castaldo, Scarsdale, NY
* That's the original car list, for NY, Mass. and Conn. Despite claims of
other cars and dealerships with orders, no other information out there.
Does not include swap-outs with other dealerships. Other possible
dealers that Darts went to, but cannot confirm car ownerships,
Cy Greene Dodge, Manhassett, NY,,,
White Plains Dodge, White Plains, NY,,,
Rockville Centre Dodge, Rockville Centre, NY
Chorches Motors, Manchester, Conn.
Fisher-Lowe Dodge, West Hartford, Conn.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, here's a pic of Charlie's 2nd Dart at Indy in 1969.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7808/...dossaa1969.jpg
(Tom Kasch photo)

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Bob George has regained his Hemi Dart. It may be the only one in the country with the original motor in it. He bought it off of Jerry Daily back in 69, raced it, and then sold it to Grant Benham of New York who just displayed it for a lot of years. I don't know what Bob paid to get it back, but I know it was big dollars.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

wow-great collage of info----scot

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
I'll post all the Charlie Castaldo on this post later tonight. 69' at Indy, nice photo. Cragars front (15" x 4"), Notice that little blocked out sliver on the upper portion of the door. Possible Tom Crutchfield's name???
Car ran 10.72 their, at Indy, in SS/BA. That is definitely Dino's lettering job. I'm wondering, what color was the Palmer Dodge car. It looks like just the center silver section was re-painted, on Charlie's car, and everything else left alone??? Is that a Cherry-Bomb muffler on that car connected to a straight exhaust pipe, or are my eyes deceiving me??
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
I have a bunch of pics copied and ready to send - I will stop at the post Office tomorrow morning. All the NE cars you have listed but I forgot to copy the Lendrum Dart pic before I put everything in the envelope. I think that you are right the blocked out silver area on the Castaldo 2nd Dart is where crutchfield's name was.
Jack,
I noticed on your Barracuda and Ed Miller's that you had what appears to be pexiglass over the grille areas - an early attempt at aerodynamics? I am looking for a good pic of Richard Shipley's old "Poison Dart" any suggestions?

Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
The 68 Hemi S/S cars did have mufflers - they were kind of like glasspacks. From what I am told, in S/S, you had to have the exhaust on the car - not necessarily hooked up - that is why you see the exhaust under the cars - the racers slipped the pipes off the headers and wired them uo to the T-bar mount.
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Hello Paul,those are factory pipes and mufflers,recently sold pair from original Hemi Dart/Gene O'Neill's car,they were in storage for many years,those pipes also appear in the book "Maximum Performance" by Jim Schild and are in the 68 section of book

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mr. Flintstone,
Did you sell the mufflers for $28. The going price for them back in 68'/69'. I thought that shape was familiar. Red Cherry-Bombs from
Maremount Muffler Corp. I know they came on the cars, but wasn't aware that they were required for S/S competition in 69'. I'm sure more than a few of them flew off like "Boomerangs" half-way down the track. DQ'd.
Much like some of those manual (4-speed) shift driveshafts flying out from under the car, when launching from the line. Hello,,Connecticut
Driveshaft,,,How may we help you?:eek:....More Gene info..Check out this location on the web,Tappan Motors, Tarrytown, New York. Had a car elevator. Showroom main floor, service center lower-level. Was a hot
Plymouth dealer back in the day, right near the GM -plant. Had numerous drag race cars their, Plymouth and Dodge. Swapped many a car, back in the late 60's and 70'/71'. Check out the building,,, it may strike a nerve.
Wonder if the Plymouth dealership swapped out a hot Plymouth, to get
a Hemi Dart for one of its customers.
Paul (More to come, or should I just forward it to Slate Construction:)

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

68HEMISS, you are correct again on both counts. The originar factory cars did have mufflers (small glass pack type) with a pipe connected, and I did have the grill covered with plexiglass on the car when I ran pro stock early that season.I would love to get a copy of the picture you spoke of, as I have almost no photos of any of my race cars.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jack,
If you go to the doverdragstrip.com site. Go to the 'Where are they now'
forum. Scroll down to '1968 Factory Hemi Darts and Cuda's at Dover'.
Go to page 2, about half-way down. There's your car at Dover starting
line, (circa 1970). Lane II, towe side.
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

What's that "Grump lump" doing on a Mopar hood? :D

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9906/carcenter.jpg

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Jack Arnew,,, I see you joined the Dover site. "Good for you Jack"
Mark J,,, Did Tom Crutchfield run the Hemi Dart through "Palmer Dodge" or "Button Motors". One of his cars shows his name on the door panel (ie; Hemi Dart). Charlie "L", said when Charlie Castaldo got the
car from Tom, the motor was tired. Not the same motor that won the
69' S/S Magazine Nationals. Also, looks like the Cragars on the front
of the SS/BA Dart at Indy 69' were from the wrecked SS/B Dart................
Another, in a long lost line. Whipple Motors out of Hingham, Mass
(southern Boston region) tried, but could not get a Hemi Dart. Not sure if this is true or not, but were told by the Regional Director that the allotment for the area had been met. They were guided to Mr. Norm's, but refused to deal with them (price shenanigans?).
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Any history on this car?

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/294/dickbower.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2808/dickbower2.jpg

M68

P.S. Reserve one of those Hemi Roadrunners for me!! :)

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
What I was told was Crutchfield & Balik asked (not sure if it was Maxwell or Cahill) about teaming up together on a Hemi Dart. Both were "Contract racers" with their 64-5 cars. They were told it would be OK and to see where they could get the best deal on a car.
Palmer Dodge gave them the best price and that is where they bought it. Palmer Dodge is listed as one of the dealerships that ordered a Dart in the paperwork that I have. Did you get the pics I sent yet?
Jack,
I will try to give you a call next week (kind of busy this week with Thanksgiving) and I will send you some pics of your Barracuda (I have a few). I think I have your number from another post. While going through some of my stuff I see that you won SS/B at the Winternats in 1973 with the car! That must have been a long haul! Congrats!
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

M68,
i have both of those pics but I have not been able to find anything else out about that Barracuda. I have spoken to a few people out west that remembered the car - I can't find Dick Bowers. If I had to guess, I have a hunch that if it stayed in CA - this might be the Lydon & Johnson (ex- DeFrank & Cohen)car. Anyone know anything about this one?
Thanks,
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J & Mopar68
Prince Chrysler-Plymouth, South Hawthorne Blvd., Hawthorne, Calif.
Hawthorne Blvd. runs north-south, right up into Inglewood. Car ran a couple of 10.90's (SS/BA) at Irwindale (late 68' or early 69'). One of the
few west-coast Hemi cars running "Jardine Headers".................................
That photo of Jack's car with the ugly Lump-Scoop must be from the later part of the early 70's. The photo at Dover (the pretty one) has the car with Keystones, and factory Hemi scoop (circa 1970), fresh off Sox & Martins hands.....I noticed in the Don Bowers ad, that you could get a set of chrome wheels, if you ordered a Hemi Road Runner. I would really like a set of those wheels, but just what would I do with a Hemi Road Runner??
$$$$$$$$$$$,,Hello Mecum Auctions.
PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul, I'd know what to do with that Hemi RR! Drive it! :D

Mark J, I tried to find Dick Bowers from Hi-Performance Center on Google--no luck. Then I typed in "Prince
Chrysler-Plymouth" and found this:

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/6...erplymouth.jpg

Hmmm...I don't see any Hemi Road Runners on the lot--even used ones! :(

M68

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

MOPAR68' the Grump Lump on the hood was to make roon for a tunnel ram intake, as you may well know, when ran as prostock. It wasn't good looking but was the only thing we could find at the time.The manifold and carbs gave me almost a tenth and a half , along with a few outher changes,so it had to stay.Built Duster for pro just about the time better hoods showed up, so I parked the car for the next year

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul thanks for the info on Dover site some realy good drag racing history there. You and all the outher people who have messaged me, have brought up a lot of fond memories THANK YOUI ALL!!!!

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
My Christmas present came today. Simply AWESOME! Thank you for sharing those rare photo's. Had my head spinning, like a 16 year-old
virgin at a prison rodeo! Damn near everyone of those cars were at Dover (68' thru 70'). Can add a comment or two to everyone. Of course, you had to throw in the SS/EA Ron Mancini 440 Dart. That is getting me to think about going with a 69' 440 Cuda again. Hard to believe anyone
could save Charlie Castaldo's first Dart, maybe related parts, but the
body itself doesn't look to be "copacetic". Again, Mucho Appreciado for the pictures. Happy Thanksgiving too all Hemi Contributors... Jack, your welcome..Loved that car with the Keysones and factory hood. In the dictionary under "Perfect", is a picture of that car:)
Paul C

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,
I am glad you liked them - I tried to get most of the cars on your list. Do you see the similarities with the Palmer Dodge Dart and the Castaldo 2nd Dart? Also the progression through S&M, Sam Panutty, Jack Arnew with the Barracuda? This Barracuda was campaigned by S&M but on the paperwork it lists the first owner as Chrysler Corp. Do you ever seeing the Bill Flynn Dart with the yellow stripe and different lettering - this was the first time I had seen that.
M68 - you know I talked to a guy who was in the dealer network and he told me that he was at Prince Chry-Ply when this Barracuda was delivered - he didn't know any more about it though. I will have to call another guy I know in CA that mentioned the car - see what he remembers.
I hope everyone has a safe & Happy Thanksgiving!
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,On the Bill Flynn "Yankee Peddler". The first paint job (1968/1969) hasBill Flynn with box lettering. Co-sponsored by County Dodge, New Haven, CT. Ran SS/B, was a staple at Connecticut Dragway (NHRA-track). Could get away with a little more than the visitors. More match-racing their, than most tracks. Still can see the Cherry-Bomb mufflers. The second photo, at New England Dragway looks like 1970'. Car with bee=stripe, but as you said, 69' grille. Name now in script, and car sponsored by Chorches Motors, Manchester, CT, and at the bottom of the door the infamous DEB'S Automotive Performance, Milford, CT. Thats when Bill was running Pro/Stock (70'/71'). The third picture with the yellow bee=stripe, Keystone spinners and Kendall GT-1 sponsor looks like a much later picture. I wonder if thats after the car was sold, and the new owner kept the "Yankee Peddler" and Bill Flynn moniker.PC

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
The Prince Chrysler-Plymouth (SS/BA) Cuda was the only car to beat
Butch Leal's "Delano Dodge" Hemi Dart in a S/S Eliminator. Meet at Irwindale, summer 68', S/S Eliminator finals. I have to search for the sponsor of the meet. I think the Dart was a runner-up, and the Cuda won the S/S meet. At that time, the SS/BA class had an 11.05 minimum, and the SS/B class had a 10.85 minimum.
Paul

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Mark J,
On that Dick Oldfield Dart. In 68'/69' the Dart (photo's with the small white hats on the rear-quarters) was co-sponsored by 'Kenton Dodge'
in central-north Ohio. In 69' the SS/BA car was runner-up to Sox & Martin
in the S/S World Finals (10/69). The "Good Guys" lettering with
'Erie County Dodge Dealers' may actually be 'Erie County' Ohio, though the car is running at Niagara, New York (Erie County).
Paul (More confusion)

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Paul,

Kenton Dodge was in Kenmore, NY. Right between Niagara Falls and Buffalo.

-Steve

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

Steve,
You are right! Dick never owned the car from what I know and it was owned by the dealers Association. Dick then left ran the Iron Butterfly of Ted Sphear's and then the Motown Missile in 1970.
Mark J

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

This car actually sits 5 minutes from my house in a one car garage. I can remember 15 years ago when it sat in his barn covered in chicken **** . Bolt in Mr Gasket roll bar...probably one of the last Hurst Hemi Cudas that never got cut up to keep up with the rules in Pro Stock and Super Stock. Stayed a modified car with a 10in slick untill this guy bought it and tucked it away. Unfortunatly hes been offered mega bucks for it and has turned it down everytime. Its doomed because he will never put it back together and hes not getting any younger. It will probably end up on his brothers shaddy car lot for sale.

Re: Original hemi dart information
 

A point of clarification on my uncle's '68 Hemi Dart:

He didn't ever own it. It was owned by the Erie County Dodge Dealers of Western New York. It really wasn't co-sponsored by Ken-Ton Dodge (which was in Kenmore / Tonawanda, NY, hence the Ken-Ton name, which is a northern suburb of Buffalo, NY, and where me, my dad, and uncle all grew up), as Ken-Ton Dodge was just one of the Erie County Dodge Dealers. I won't say they weren't more prominently involved, as it is possible that is the dealership that my uncle picked up the car from (since that is where he was living at the time), but in theory all of the Dodge dealerships were in it equally.

The car WAS co-sponsored by Jan-Cen Automotive, which is where my uncle worked at the time (formerly owned by Jim Janis, and now owned by his sons, the most famous of which is Mike Janis, who is a multi-time Pro Modified champ). The car was run in both '68 and '69 - '68 was the horrible paint with the cowboy hats. My uncle despised that paint scheme, and was able to convince the Erie County Dodge Dealers to let him repaint the car the maroon and black paint scheme for 1969.

http://oldfieldweb.net/68DartHat.jpg

http://oldfieldweb.net/ss69c.jpg

I'm not going to claim these pictures as mine, and I believe the picture of the '69 car is one of Tom Kasch's pictures, so I'll credit him here for that picture, if not for the '68 picture as well.

Lastly, I COULD be wrong, but I don't believe my uncle quit racing the Dart to race the Iron Butterfly. I believe he was racing Ted Spehar's Iron Butterfly BEFORE he race the Dart in '68 and '69, and then when Ted contacted him about coming on board to race this new class called Pro Stock, he stopped racing the Dart, and moved to Detroit to help kick the Motown Missile program off. But, I could be wrong about the succession of events there, as the Iron Butterfly could have been just a temporary thing for my uncle to race while they built the first Missile. I'll ask my uncle next week when I see him at PRI.

One final comment - there shouldn't be ANY questions as to the details behind the Dart my uncle raced, other than what may have happened to it after he stopped racing it. My uncle is still readily accessible, and is more than willing to answer any questions any of you may have.