Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Come on guys. Its not the racers fault here no matter what your running. Lets be nicer here. Im trying.....LOL. Its the dumb a@@ NHRA and the manufacturers that have caused all the grieff ! Direct your anger at them. Have them get off their butts and either factor the new stuff correctly or put them in their own class and call it whatever. The early DP's did require a LOT of building. The Fords not so much along with the COPO's. The blowers are a problem as it was in the early Jr. stock days. The blown 57 312 Fords were out running everything for class. Including the 350/255 Chevy's like Bobby Warren's in heads up runs. Its up to NHRA to set things right but it seems they wont listen. It really seems the AHFS isnt working either. There HAS to be a better way.
Merry Christmas to all

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

If I had any sense I would have built a hood scoop car going in.
None of this crap would have mattered.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So let me get this straight the CNC'ed heads are not allowed, just the ported heads. Really unreal, anyone read the rule book on cylinder heads?
You could still put a set of layers best superstock heads and the best superstock camshaft in my camaro and still not run with the new mustangs in E.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Here is a radical new concept for you:

If you don't know what you are talking about, then stop talking.

Dennis explained it. There was more than a little bit of work in the 2009, and 2010 Challenger Drag Paks. And even the Fords and Copos typically take more than "buy and drive" efforts to get to the track.

So, at what race; track and date please, were you so unfairly beaten by one of those combinations that upsets you this badly that you need to make personal attacks on other racers?

Or are you just on a mission to make the world fair?

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So does anyone have any answers for this? Where did the extra cc's come from if they're not ported?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The same place they come from on all the other "stocker" heads?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Andrew,

With all do respect, most head volumes listed by NHRA do not hold the factory volumes. The head was submitted and pored, just like many other heads.

I am not sure why you think the head specs listed by Ford Racing in their parts catalog has any relevance with what NHRA has posted. They also list flow number, but we all know they follow much better.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Ken,
Didnt they just come w/ a built in safety factor from the factory? LOL. It's all about safety these days. When did you guys ever see a 993 head from the factory that was even close to 63.3 on the chamber?:)

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Andrew buy Ford Racing part and all your problems will be solved . You will get the extra CC"s you request


Merry Christmas

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Brian,

Safety first as always, your funny bud. I thought it was pretty much common knowledge about the so called factory numbers and NHRA's posted numbers, but I could be wrong.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Bo, they won't fit on our motors. How about a set pf GM fast burn heads, a 511 lift roller cam, a victor manifold, a 1050 dominator, amd a 15 hp reduction. I would be glad to run against these bogus crate motor cars then.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Greg answer a question for me please. What did you do to get 35hp taken off a combination? Or was NHRA just feeling benevolent?? I'm serious and was just wondering. Maybe I could get you and your son to do some lobbying with NHRA for me.

Merry Christmas

RJ

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I have asked several of these "rock slingers" the same question over the last few years. I am still eagerly awaiting the answer............

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

My combination has been rated at 325 for a long time, we didn't ask for HP off. Does anyone really think a 350 sbc from 1970 would be competitive at 360 hp? I don't know who asked for the HP to be taken off, but they don't run the combination now, and I don't know of another one besides the one Tommy Gaynor has that's been very fast over the time I've been around the race track. It's clearly not a bad combination, but it's also the highest rated carbureted small block chevy in the guide (the same motor in a Corvette is 5 more, but stick only).

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

If it were up to me I would give the older car performance enhancement part or weight reductions starting today .

To me this is the easiest way to fix the problem and make everyone happy in the most cost effective way .

Most guys redo their stuff on a yearly basis , bigger cam's, more cc's, bigger valves, higher compression , bigger carbs is easy stuff to do .

Racers should start a petition to NHRA to make some simple changes for the older car, then AHFS will sort out the mistakes in a few years


Merry Christmas

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It looks to me the easiest and simplest solution is to put the factory's experiments into the FX class. No reason to make changes to so many when it is so few that are sticking out.

The FX classes are really cool and self explanatory to fans and racers alike. It shouldn't be all that complicated.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

and the only investment the owners of the new cars have to make is some new vinyl for class designation. Tell ya what, I'll make it even easier. I have a vinyl cutter, I'll make them for them for free.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Sorry Bo, I have too disagree, and I am currently building a 2010 Mustang with the 352 combo.

I guess I lean with Kyle, not sure how it could be done, as the Factories are bringing out New Improved Products every year now. Maybe have them run (F/X, Factory Hot Rod or whatever) for a 3 year tour and then be absorbed into Stock/SuperStock and let the Ahfs go to WORK (sic) from there.

I still plan on running my old car until I find a buyer for it.

Running a Bogus Hp combo car Heads Up is unfair and down right stealing to me regardless if it were a NEW Combo or an Old Combo My old car has had 1 hp taken off of it from the Factory Rating and although I would like to have an extra 15 or 20 HP taken off I know that it ain't gonna happen!! But I can always wish!!

RJ

Go Irish!! (I took the 10 points)

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Actually the 69 LT-1 350 corvette is rated at 370 in stock, WAY over factored, but just thought I'd point it out

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Without being an insider, I can only surmise why they don't do the FX. My best guess is that the factories would rather see them compete against combos that don't have a chance so it would help sales of new cars.

The FX class would be a financial disaster for the new car owners. This type of racing is already expensive enough. The entry cost of the new cars is pretty steep. Staying at the top of the heap is even more expensive.

Putting all of these cars in FX would pit them against each other and make Comp look entry level.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

My last post almost looks like I am back tracking. I still think the FX makes the most sense and I would enjoy watching it. I was just pointing out some reasons as to why it may not have happened already.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I'll take a set of those free letters please .............

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

go get the FX classes created, and then send me your address ;)

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Hey KRat......make up your mind Boy!!

You invest other people's money, Right????

RJ

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I had no idea there were conditions ........guess there really is no free lunch ! ! !

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

ain't that the truth

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I came back and posted that it looked like I was waffling, but I still support the FX. It was just reasons why I didn't think it has happened yet.

Got your e-mail and you realize that you are motivating me to really start leaning on things. ;)

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It sure doesn't look like it would be any fun tearing this engine down.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...yl442/copo.jpg

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

From the very beginning........... before the new cars even hit the track, Mike Pustelney worked like crazy and tried to get the FX classes done.... If you don't know who he is, I won't bother to try to educate you. But he had the earliest contact with everyone on this, and can certainly confirm that.

Chris (Drooze) and I, as well as most other Drag Pak owners at the time were also fully in favor and when communicating with NHRA and Mopar, let it be known. We weren't just wiling to accept it... We really, really wanted it to happen.

In other words, the people with the best contacts on the new cars and programs did think it would fair to beat up on the old cars, nor that beating up the old cars would be good for Stock.

But the NHRA thought it was perfect;y fair for the blown Fords, and the obviously quick Challenger Drag Paks to run in Stock.

And now after nearly three years of online whining, the NHRA still isn't doing anything about it.

You can all continue to complain, bitch and whine. if it makes you feel good, or you think it gives you entrance, honor and some grand position in the Great Hall of Fairness for All!

But if it hasn't happened yet, do you honestly think that continuing your constant crying here will change it?

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Talk your condisending crap with someone else. I am a competitor and not a quitter.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Well they would factor that down to 330 like the 70 because its the exact same motor. They just put it in a corvette a year earlier than a camaro.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

actually i believe it has a holley instead of a q-jet

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So does the 70 LT-1

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

so 71 was the change, my bad. it does show a 485/485 camshaft in the 69 though. Different carb numbers but the specs are the same for them.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Yep, the only difference in the 69 vs 70 is the 485/485 vs 458/485 cam. The 71 moves to a different head and a flat top piston and is rated at 315 in both the Camaro and Corvette.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

71 and 72 also have a Holley, just less compression and different heads.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Gentlemen,

Using my fading memory and wikipedia I find that the LT1 was only manufactured in 1970-72, no mention of production in 1969. The closest HP 350 I could find was the L79 350/350 anything with higher HP was a big block.

I've been wrong before, well not really, OK only three times and I'm finished paying alimony, if you could direct me to a site that gives the spec's for the 1969 LT1 I would appreciate it.

JimR

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Don't give me any crap about our motors. Who's got the school bus motor that now has a cj cam, aluminum intake, and a 780 Holley carburetor. I remember those 390's in the 60's and they wouldn't out run a 327 Camaro. Plus you're building one of the bogus crate motors so you'll be a half a second in front of me and Andrew.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Haha, can't tell it's the offseason already....

I got a strange idea that I think might end up working over time in getting these new cars where they should be. Keep the pedal to the floor? :D

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Most guys redo their stuff on a yearly basis , bigger cam's, more cc's, bigger valves, higher compression , bigger carbs is easy stuff to do .

Bo most of us don't have a wheel barrel full of cash to spend on our race cars. In my case being a State Trooper doesn't allow me to upgrade my engine every year as you suggest.