Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I suppose that because I've seen so many Pontiac bodies, that came with a Pontiac engine, but were later swapped over to Chevy power, I especially like the little Cobalts, with 428 Pontiac power.

Robert Cruzen & Todd Frantz have both won class at Indy, with these little cars. The only pic I have of Todd's car even still shows it to have big Chevrolet letters on the windshield. Don't know if those letters were on the car after the Pontiac engine was installed or not.

Hey, maybe I can say it like some of the LS guys do on the car forums. It's a corporate GM engine. Hey, Pontiac V8 engines WERE used in some other GM brands. And, some 2nd gen Birds had Buick, Olds & Chevy engines as options, some years. So, maybe Buick, Olds, Pontiac & Caddy are all corporate GM engines, huh ? So, as long as it's a GM engine in a GM body, it's OK, right ? :)

Did a little more digging. It appears that the Todd Frantz Cobalt is the former "Indiana Johns" car, which won class at the 2014 US Nats, with a 346 engine. So, I don't know when or if Todd bought the car, nor who installed the 428, or when it was installed. Anybody have more info on this little Cobalt ? It appears that Todd may have driven one or more cars for Irvin Johns. I'm always interested in how a quick Chevy powered Chevy becomes a quick Pontiac powered Chevy ! :)

http://mrsuperstock.blogspot.com/sea...portsNationals

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

My machinist friend passed away unexpectedly over the summer. His widow sold off most of his equipment. Customers have received their parts back and the shop is almost empty. I don't know exactly what is left, but there is a cache of Pontiac stuff unclaimed. If anyone is interested, PM me.
Mike
A114

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Somebody passed off a bunch of jive with this "corporate engine" stuff.
I'm still looking for the Chevrolets that came with real Pontiac V8's, or Buick, Olds V8's, for that matter. Also, Cads that came in anything else other than a Caddy?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Yeah, IIRC, the 1st time I heard the term was back in the early '80's, when the 301 Pontiac engine was no longer offered in a Pontiac Firebird. Instead, the 305 sbc was offered. Some would call it a "corporate engine" because it was used in several different GM brands.

But, to me & other old school Pontiac guys, the 3rd gen Birds were nothing but dolled up Camaros, that looked better. But, since there is room for a Pontiac V8, in a 3rd gen Bird, they make great Pontiac powered GT cars ! :)

I assume that most here know about the late 2nd gen Bird engine options. Besides Pontiac engines, there were the Buick V6, Olds 403, & Chevy 305, just to name a few. Earlier Pontiacs had a Chevy inline six, and a 307 Chevy. Both Olds & Buick 350's were also used in '70's Pontiac models.

I don't have a clue about Caddy engines, except that a 472 Caddy engine pulled my GTO, by tow-bar, to the tracks, in 1973. And, my trans guy told me that the TH400 sprag I needed was a GM part designed for, but not limited to, TH400's used behind 500 cube Caddy engines.

In '79, the Pontiac 301 was used in several Buick models. I don't know ALL the different engine options in ALL GM models in ALL years. But I think I can safely say that SOME GM engines were used in several different GM brands. Is that a statement that all here can agree with ??? :confused:

Well hey, many of you guys already know all this stuff. So, the term "corporate engine" has been around for a long time & obviously means different things to different people. That's all I have to say about corporate engines. :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

The main reason why it's even worth a look at SS Pontiacs, is because the Pontiac engines currently used in SS racing, only span a 12 year period, from 1967 Thru 1978.

Those are the years the Pontiac 400 engine was available with an auto trans. There was a '79 400. But it came only with a 4-speed manual trans. 350, 428, & 455 engines were available in some of those years.

In contrast, Ford, Chevy, & Mopar brands still have cars & engines that can run SS. So, how many years do they have to choose from ? LOTS of SS cars are now being run, which were not considered high performance cars, at all.

Anyhow, current Pontiac V8 powered SS cars, are definitely in a minority. So, anyone choosing to run Pontiac V8 power, is very limited in their choice of competitive engines. I think the GT class is one of the best things that has ever happened, for Pontiac powered racing. It definitely put the 428 into the game. A '69 GP is probably the only 428 powered body anybody would have ever considered using for a SS drag car. The other bodies were really big & heavy. But, with the GT rules, the 428 can be used in lots of smaller, lighter GM bodies. 455's can also be used in smaller, lighter bodies, than those they came in.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

So, for you guys who were into racing in the early & mid '60's, what year did the FX cars morph into what would later be "Funny" cars.

Maybe a better way to say it would be, what was the 1st year that Stock, Super Stock, & the FX class, were 3 completely separate classes.

I suppose this is the best explanation of those early '60's Stock/SS/FX classes I've ever read.

https://www.facebook.com/FCRMotorspo...0684906992287/

But I don't know the exact year when roller cams and/or aftermarket intakes and/or big tires were made legal in SS cars.

This excerpt from a book says that 1967 is the year that NHRA started the new Super Stock class, which allowed any cam, any intake of the same configuration as factory, and any size tire that would fit in the original wheel well.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Tt...0class&f=false

Before that, SS was still a part of the Stock class. But this is online info. So, from you guys who were there, is '67 the year you remember this happening ? By chance, did any of you guys field a roller cam SS car during the 1967 season ? If it wasn't yours, did you have any roll in racing one of these cars ? If the answer is no, to the previous questions, do any of ya'll remember the 1st roller cam SS car you personally knew some facts about ?

Trying to get some 1st hand, eyewitness accounts of some of these very early roller cam SS cars, from the late 60's. If '67 was actually the very 1st year of this new class, there were plenty of Musclecars being sold, which could have been used. Hey, the '67 Birds & Camaros are the 1st that come to mind. Don't know how many Birds were built. But I figure there were LOTS of '67 Camaros set up to run the new SS class.

I have to believe that Gay Pontiac fielded one of the 1st '67 Super Stock Birds. Stan Long Pontiac also had one that set a record.

Only only '67 SS Bird I know of, in recent years, belongs to Joel Larkin. That reminds me of a question I've already ask. What was the 1st season in which the narrowed rear ends, tubs, & big tires were legal ? And what about wheelie bars ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Also don't know who fielded the 1st competitive '68 SS Bird.

Don't know of one that has been actively racing, in recent years. Chris Stephenson ran his '68 Stocker, in SS some. But I won't count that one.

Have picks of a couple of John Angeles/Pete McCarthy '68's. May be the same car, with 2 different paint jobs. Don't know when it was last raced.

And, I think I've shown pics of the Mike Mckinney '68. Have it in red, & blue. Assume it's the same car. Best time I could find for the car, Roy was driving. Ran a 10.41, which was more than .500 under, but missed the '99 Indy field.

So, any know who may have ran one in SS, in the '60's.

I suppose the Yellow Bird is the only small tire '68 SS Bird I have pics of.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Found some pics of an early '70's A-body, raced by the White Bros. It is said that they switched out the front body parts, so they could run it as a '71 T-37, a '71 GTO, & a '72 GTO. They also ran a car in Stock. So I don't know if they had just one car, or several.

Anyhow, they won class at Indy, with a Super Stocker.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Came across this, which is a sad story. This is about a '67 SS Bird which I just mentioned.

Tony Knieper worked at Stan Long Pontiac. He was racing a '67 Bird, in SS/FA. Set a record somewhere, then was class RU, to Dick Landy, at the Winter Nats.

"...The record was set at Columbus. Knieper won class at the 1968 AHRA Winternationals and was runner up for ss/fa class at the NHRA Winternationals. He went 12.35 at 113 against Dick Landy's 12.23..."

Then, on their way to a div race, he & a younger brother were killed in a wreck. :(

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

After doing quite a bit of research, as of right now, I think the winningest Super Stock Pontiac A-body, in the modern era, must be the Sonny Ray '72 GTO.

For the SS Bird, I'll have to choose the Ken Shawver owned '78, that he & Monte Howard drove.

For the Pontiac powered GT car, it has to be Phil Monteith's Hatari, because Peter Biondo won so many races in it.

If ya'll have different choices than me, please post that info & tell why you made your choice.

As for back in the '60's, I don't know. Arnie Beswick did lots of racing. But he got off into match racing & some wild funny car type rides. So, up thru 1970, which Pontiac would ya'll say did the most winning in what could be considered Super Stock ? :confused:

And, what about nat records ? What Pontiac powered SS car has set the most nat records ? Carroll Warling's '74 A-body is the only record holder I know of this century. Any others ?

I assume there were several back in the old days. Seems I remember seeing a string of years that one big wagon held the record. I'll post the pics again, & ya'll can tell us if you know of a Pontiac that set more records, or held a record longer.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Speakin of records. Gary Moore set a speed record, at the Amarillo World Finals, in '72, in SS/J.

Sorry to report that I just found out that Gary passed away only a couple of weeks before I posted this. :(

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Larry Maxwell is running the same motor as mine. The one year only 1974 GTO 350 200 HP w/#46 heads and 7.62 compression.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Thanks for that info !

If this info is correct, looks like he gets 6 more hp, in GT/ auto trans, than you have in a '74 Vent. Don't know how NHRA gives the same engine a different hp factor, depending on which body it's in or whether there is a manual or auto trans behind it. But hey, you current racers know a LOT more about all that than me. :o

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

Assuming by the times he's running that he doesn't have an all-out Parsons & Meyers Super Stock 350. Or does he ? Just ASSUMING that he built the car, on purpose, to run a safe distance below his index, and maintain the rest of the car in near Stock Elim form. But, if this assumption is NOT correct, I'd like to have that info.

Just looked up some times run by the '74 GTO Stocker driven by Brad Koivisto. It ran some 11.20's.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

So, a strong Stock legal '74 350 engine will provide enuff power to run under the GT index. Don't need a huge roller cam & alum intake. So, it makes perfect sense that a good 350 build, with a bigger than Stock legal, flat tappet or small roller cam should run under the GT index.

There are obviously 400, 428, & 455 engines which can also be built to run under their GT index. But, I figure the 350 will require a bit less traction, to hook it up. So, if building a low budget Pontiac powered GT car, the 350 seems like a good choice.

And, I've already mentioned the fact that some of the 400 powered Stockers have run SS, at a few races, & ran under their index. For example: The SS/IA index is 10.70. There are some of the 1st gen Bird Stockers, which will fit that class, which can run under that index, in Stock legal form.

Just all food for thought. If somebody wants to get into SS racing, but wants to do it on a lower budget than building or buying an all-out, big tire SS car, there are ways to do it, with Pontiac power.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I'd love for somebody to start a low budget Pontiac powered GT build thread on this site. Hey, it wouldn't be a "dime rocket". But I think it could be done for a reasonable price. Could also double as a bracket car, for those who don't live close to a lot of tracks that run SS, & don't have the funds for long hauls. But, I know that lots of guys here don't like bracket racing. So, that's all I'll say about that.

If I had to take a guess as to what the cheapest Pontiac Body Stocker roller might be, I'd have to say it would probably be a 3rd gen Bird. When I was gonna build a Pontiac powered bracket car, back in 2007, there were lots of 3rd gen Birds around, cheap. I bought several. Max price was $500. So, I figure it was the same all over the country. That's why I assume there were lots of Stockers built, using 3rd gen Bird bodies. So, that means that there should be some decent 3rd gen Stocker rollers out there, for sale, which would work good as a 350 Pontiac powered GT car.

Glanced thru the thread that's going now, where guys are talkin about all the cars they have, or know of, that are not being used. There are occasionally guys come on here asking about a car to buy. Maybe that would be a good way to help get somebody started in class racing. They could start off with a decent Stocker roller, which mostly just needs a trans & engine.

As you guys well know, there are some body styles that have had all the possible combos wrung out, & can no longer be competitive, on a level many insist on. One of these cars might make a good candidate for a low budget, just-under-the-index, Pontiac powered build.

I'd prefer a Pontiac body, such as a Bird or Ventura. But, the little 428 powered Cobalts have proven that a Pontiac engine will power a Chevy body just as good as it will a Pontiac body. The engine don't care what brand name is on the car. But, it has to be a GM body, which will work with a Pontiac V8 engine, & be NHRA SS legal.

I know from past experience that LOTS of Chevy guys cringe at even the thought of a Pontiac engine in a Chevy. But hey, for you guys, we can consider an Olds or Buick body. I assume there may be some Olds & Buick X-bodies out there somewhere. Anyhow there should be some 70's GM X-bodies, as well as GM 2nd & 3rd gen F-bodies out there, that are just settin around gathering dust & rust.

Anybody here know of one that would work, which might help some new guy get started with a cheap Pontiac powered GT car ?

A '77 350 or 400 Pontiac engine would probably be my choice, because, the 6X heads required are still plentiful & fairly cheap. These engines have been very competitive, in stock & SS, for a long time. So, building one to just barely run under, in hot weather, shouldn't break the bank.

If anybody has a good roller prospect for such a project, which you'll sell for a reasonable price, post that info. Then I'll go on some of the Pontiac sites & see if I can find a guy who is willing to give this thing a shot. There are lots of bracket racers who are spending enuff on bracket racing, so that they could build a low budget GT car for the same money, if they just knew how.

Guys here with the know-how could provide needed info on the build thread, & help locate some decent used parts, that will be needed. Hey it would be sorta like a forum project. From what I've read, a lot of members here are even older than me & no longer race, themselves. Hey, this could be a way to help pass on some of what you learned, & maybe help a younger guy get into SS racing.

What do ya'll think ? Anybody interested ? :confused:

I remember when I 1st found this site, how much I enjoyed following Brent Flynn's low budget Stocker build. Maybe a low budget Pontiac powered GT build would also generate some interest. I don't have the knowledge & experience most of you guys have. But, I'll definitely do all I can to help with info, parts round-up, etc. Let's do it ! :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Since DRC don't have records from the '70's & '80's, I have no way, that I know of now, to get race results from the '70's.

So, I'll ask here. Sonny Ray's '72 GTO won some nat events In the late '70's & early '80's. Before that, what was the last non-wagon SS Pontiac to win a nat event ? I say non-wagon, because I know that Jack Mullins won 2, in '75.

Just don't know what other non-wagon SS Pontiacs won Nat events. Anybody know of one, or more, before 1998 ? :confused:

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

The 350 engine from 1974 increased to 256 in all RWD GT's regardless of the car that it is in.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Yeah, maybe I didn't make clear what I was trying to say.

IF, & ONLY if the info on the site I'm linking is correct (and I have no way of knowing if it is or isn't), then:

(1) The hp factor for Ventura reg SS, with both man & auto trans, as well as GT cars with man trans, is 250hp.

(2) For all other non-Ventura bodies running reg SS, with both man & auto trans, the factor is 254hp.

(3) For all GT RWD vehicles, runing an auto trans, the factor is 256hp.

So, if this info IS correct, NHRA has assigned 3 different hp factors to exactly the same engine.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

So, I'm wondering why a Ventura running reg SS, gets only 250hp, while all other bodies running regular SS, with the same engine, get 254hp. And, why all GT cars running an auto trans get 256hp, while GT cars running a man trans get only 250hp. Another way to say it is: What does the body style or trans type have to do with the power an engine makes. Just my hillbilly common sense tells me that if an engine makes 250 dyno hp, that engine would make the same amount of power, at the flywheel, regardless of what vehicle that engine was put into. But, obviously, that's NOT the way NHRA sees it.

And, obviously, NHRA does this with some other brands as well, since I've read on this site of others complaining about it. If I understand it correctly, SOMETIMES this difference is based on the fact that a single person, or more, has run really quick with a particular engine, in a particular vehicle, whereas other vehicles, with exactly the same engine, have not run as quick, therefore ONLY the quick combo gets the hp increase. Assuming that's the way it works, in SOME cases. ??? :confused:

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Let me clear up the confusion. There presently is only one 1974 GTO running in either S/S or GT with the 350, 200 HP engine that it came with. That would be me. My combination has been rated at 250 HP in the GTO for decades. This past season I hurt the combination while running in GT/QA at four different races. As a result, I was awarded 6 HP for my efforts. However, there were no triggers in S/S with my combination. So, it remains at 250 HP in Super/Stock. The only Pontiac Ventura II in 1974 with the ram air 350 at 200 HP was the GTO, not any other variant. For the record, the 1974 Ventura II with a flat hood(non ram-air) was only available with a two barrel and was factory rated at 170 HP. Larry Maxwell is running the GTO 350, 200 HP motor in his Firebird. We are the only two racers in the entire planet that run this motor, at the present time. 2020 will be the 26th year that I've run my 1974 GTO. Thirteen years in Stock Eliminator and now thirteen in Super/Stock.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

To clear up my last post, Larry and I are the only two racers in S/S running that motor. There are several other racers running the 1974 GTO in Stock Eliminator. But only two in Super/Stock.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Here's round 1 of class elims, in SS, at the 2015 US Nats. Bill Rink won his SS/LA class. Robert Cruzen won his GT/AA class. Mike Morgan was RU in his SS/MA class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DVm7htV-4

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

"... The only Pontiac Ventura II in 1974 with the ram air 350 at 200 HP was the GTO, not any other variant...."

Wow ! That means that all the info on the Class Racer Info site, about the cars that engine can be used in is absolutely wrong. It shows that engine to be legal in all Ventura models, including 4-doors, & most Lemans models, including 4-door models.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2088

The NHRA site seems to show the same info as the Class Racer Info site.

http://www.nhra.net/tech_specs/class...s/1974PONT.xls

Maybe it's sorta like it is with the SD455 engine. Some online sources say that engine was only released in Birds. But, some say they know of one or more that came in a GP. So, NHRA allows it in more than just Birds.

I think a member here runs that Class Racer Info site. Maybe I should give him this info & see what he can get from NHRA, on it ? He probably wants all the info on the site to be accurate.

The Wallace engine ID site does list a '74 4-barrel 350, that is not a GTO engine. The block code is WN. Looks like it was 170hp with 4C heads, & 200hp with 46 heads. So, MAYBE, a 200hp version was available in some models other than just the GTO. I DON"T KNOW !

1974 350 170/200 HP WN M 7.6 555 4C/46 1-4 7044269 Block Casting # 488986

http://www.wallaceracing.com/enginesearch4.htm

The 1st hint I had that a non-GTO Vent could run the same engine was from the pics from the '74 US Nats. Al Vanis won, in a flat hood Vent, in O/SA. Rock Running won the O/S class in his '74 GTO. To me, that means the 2 cars were running the same engine, one with auto, one with stick. Don't think a 2-barrel engine would run O, when the GTO also ran O.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2083

The Class Racer Info site shows that the 170hp 4-barrel 350 can run the same cam as the 200hp engine.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2083

Also shows the same min chamber volume & max CR, for both engines. I'm not saying they were the same from the factory. But, it looks as tho NHRA allows the same specs for both. The Wallace site shows that the non-CA GTO engines used the 066 Pontiac cam. I've read that although the GTO engine was said to have more CR, that they actually used exactly the same cc chambers as the non-GTO 350. Again, I DON'T KNOW !

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

One thing appears certain. What came from the factory, & what NHRA allows, are sometimes 2 completely different things !

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

At the 2012 Winter Nats, there were 5 Pontiacs in SS.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

Here's the 1st round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVCtdJe8VA8

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

There were 4 SS Pontiacs at the 2016 Sports Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

Here's the 1st round of class elims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR-PvCW5bLw

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Just for entertainment purposes, here's a 9 sec test run of an SD455 powered GT Bird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AllROmmUeTs

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

How about Don K's East Coast swing video ? :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61uTRG5vTbw

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Here's a short clip from a longer video, This one deals with the late '60's. It shows how the SS & the FX cars really parted ways. The FX cars went completely wild, & evolved into Funny cars. The quickest SS cars evolved into Pro Stock. And, the SS class became completely separate from the Top Stock class. Thus, there would be Stock, SS, Pro Stock, & Funny car.

There was lots of fan excitement at local tracks all over the country, because of the wild match races. Pontiacs were hardly even mentioned during this period. Don Gay, Arnie Beswick, and a few others did a lot of match racing. The classes were dominated by 427 Ford & Chevy engines, and the 426 Mopar Hemi. After things calmed down a bit, by the mid '70's, Some Pontiacs would start to win again, in SS, Such as Jack Mullins' wagon, Sonny Ray's '72 GTO, and probably others I don't even know about. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CknQNp2_6nw

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Got some videos of 6 rounds of Don K's Vegas win.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

Here's round 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktnw...C&index=5&t=0s

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Round 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enk6...C&index=6&t=0s

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Round 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px-G...C&index=7&t=0s

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Round 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Kx...C&index=8&t=0s

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Round 5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_H7...345F1C&index=8

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Final round. Congrats to Don K. for that win ! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZab...345F1C&index=9

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Ya'll, I promise that I am finding SOME, not all, of these videos just by accident, while just watching little snippets here & there.

This one is from the 1980 US Nats. Phil Szupka got RU. Hey, it's a big deal to make it to the finals of the US Nats ! Looks like a '70-'73 T/A. Anybody know all the particulars ?

It's just a VERY short clip, starting at aprox the 26:40 point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMtM1TOTLg

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

He bought it from herslow and morlock then phil monteith bought it from him 73sd455 ta. Stock n super stock record holder

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Thanks for that info !

For a lot of these cars it's sorta like finding out who your ancestors were. But I like hearing that a car was passed on to, and raced by several guys, rather than reading about one that was taken off the track, and either never heard of again, or discovered many years later in a barn somewhere.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...24&postcount=4

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...91&postcount=8

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...95&postcount=9

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...8&postcount=10

I may have posted this before. But, for this post it relates. On page 5 of this H-O Racing Specialties newsletter, it shows a pic of 2 '73 T/A's. Says Phil Szupka won the all SS/KA final, of the Fall Sportsman Championship race at Maple Grove.

http://missiongarage.com/photogaller...t-nov-1977.pdf

For you guys who have a Mar '76 SS&DI mag, would love for one of you to scan or somehow make a good copy of the inside article about the H&M Bird, & post it here.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-STOCK...IAAOSwLIZeBaMe

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

On page 4 of that H-O newsletter, it mentions Glen Tinsley & his SS/KA '73 T/A. I know that, for a time, he was hooked up with John Clegg & his Pontiac racers.

http://missiongarage.com/photogaller...t-nov-1977.pdf

So, who has more info about Glen & his racing career.

I may have already posted these pics. But, a quick search did not show 'em. In the 2nd pic, looks like he was hard on the brakes. If you look close, you can see Tinsley & Osteen on the rear. I assume that Osteen was James Osteen. James worked for Gay Pontiac for 30 + years. He is said to have built most all the cars & engines raced under the Gay Pontiac name. I've read that he was also crew chief on the cars. So, I assume he went to most of the races, with the cars. Don't know if he ever drove any of the cars, or not. I think Gay Pontiac may have quit racing, by the time Glen was racing either of these cars.

https://efregoso.github.io/gassermad.../gay/index.htm

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Gentleman Jack!!

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

This was just called to my attention. Phil Szupka was voted into the div 1 Hall of Fame.

https://www.classracer.com/classforu...23&postcount=1

I assume this 1st pic is from Indy, since there appear to be so many fans, in the stands. The 2nd pic shows him in a '72 GTO.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Just accidentally ran across this pic of a '67 GTO big tire Super Stocker.

It is indeed the same car raced by Jay Cason, out on the West coast. Perm number 769.

Have never seen another. No, it wasn't quick. But, it ran quick enuff to go rounds, if no heads-up runs were encountered. Mostly, it was just a very rare car to see in the SS ranks.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

While looking closer at this pic of the car Phil Szupka raced, I noticed a couple of things.

(1) Writing over the door says the car was a nat record holder for several years running. Anybody know who owned the car, when those records were set, exactly which records were set, and who was driving when the records were set ?

(2) I noticed the Vitar converters decal. Younger guys may have never heard of that brand. Don't think they've been around for a long time. I bought one of those for our '68 Bird Stocker, for the 1975 season. It worked great. It was a 9" unit, with around 3000 stall, IIRC.

That brand was recommended to me by H-O Racing Specialties.