Re: Crate Motor Class
 

What is the highest HP rated crate Motor available for class? What's the fastest a crate car has run in IHRA et wise?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

No, the fight is about using showroom available engines in showroom available bodies in STOCK Eliminator.

Also , nobody's saying you have to build 50 year old cars.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Why would they want to do such a thing?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

I hate to break it to you guys but Stock eliminator doesn't need to be saved, IHRA does.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Ken I race a lot and I can tell you in division 3 alone we have at least 60 to 80 stockers at a race and Hell our combo races at Beach Bend its nothing to have 50 stock and Super Stockers. IHRA is Dying crate motors are not wanted or needed in NHRA may as well build a bracket car . We have too many classes in Stock as it is

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Fact.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Jan. 2009 was the first post. The "higher up" may not have been as high as they thought or it takes 9 years to make it through the red tape. I think you CM guys might want to keep up on the IHRA schedules.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

There ya go. Nine SS cars last time I went to an IHRA race. No cars, and the purse cut back so far because of it, I loaded up and left. That was a few years ago. I'm surprised they are still around. I guess they are still around.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

IHRA has lost their relevance, shame because there were and are a few good souls left. Had a lot of fun running the races and enjoyed the fact that we had 3-4 majors and all the divisional races within an 8 hour drive. It was a great time and we would easily have at least half a dozen and maybe even a dozen cars in our convoy coming down from Ontario. The beginning of the end of the loss of class run offs, then they virtually turned their back on the Ohio/Michigan/Ontario corridor for what ever reasons and bam we no longer have the excitement we once had.

Nostalgia!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

It would be really interesting to see how fast the Traditional Stockers would be, as they're converted to Crate Motor Stockers. Racers by nature will exploit the rules, take advantage of softer indexes and lower HP ratings to make their cars more competitive. My advice to Crate Motor Racers is, "be careful what you wish for." You might see your combo hit harder than you ever thought possible. It'd be cheaper to build a stocker combo, than to try and keep up with some of the "wallets" in stock eliminator. It's not gonna be Easier or Cheaper to run a Crate Motor Combo...Guaranteed !

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Several years ago, there was a proposal for a 'crate motor' Comp Eliminator class with one each Chevy, Ford & Mopar motor combo with soft indexes. The story was that NHRA killed the idea before it got off the ground, they got word that engine builders weren't happy about having to run on kill while the crate motor class had a soft index, they had plans to build one off motors to bomb the indexes on day one. So yeah, be careful what you wish for. I know a couple of brothers that live up the street from me who would just love to bomb the HP factor on something like this.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Crate Motor spec sheets:
http://www.ihra.com/competition/comp...t/category/211

Ford CM Engines
● 460 / 535 @ 515
● 514 / 600 @ 520

Last I could find on some other combos:
Chevy 502/502 was rated at 443
500 / 445 Mopar (Wedge) at 443

Outside of Top Stock, the big HP combinations were few and far between. Most crate motor guys ran small blocks. I know Terry Taylor went 9.60's in A/CM many years ago. I'm sure Nitro Joe has the stats from back in the day. When IHRA did away with record points, class runoffs, etc people quit caring about performance as much.


FYI, my old 360 Magnum crate motor was rated at 325. Add aluminum heads with bigger valves, more cam, almost 2 points more compression, and a 1000cfm throttle body and you have a 5.9L DragPak, rated by NHRA in its infinite wisdom at 275HP. LOL


Depends on if you want to keep up with the Jones's or not. You can do things kinda-sorta affordable if you don't care about going fast. I built the 5.9L DragPak for Super Stock GT on a budget, and it paid for itself pretty quickly. I had less in my Super Stock car than most people have in their Stockers. One guy flat out told me I was lying when I told him how much I had in it. The car may have been slow, but it won both a National and a Divisional. The only thing that cost much more than a good crate motor was the EFI computer and fuel system.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Come on Michael, I love ya , don't act like a liberal and make partial quotes. The point is the cost of crate motors will double, triple, maybe quadruple if approved for NHRA class racing. I don't care about the past costs. We know what will happen. And that's a fact. Plus add to that your chances of a heads up, and if you're a slug, there are no wins. Even if you're as good a driver as you !

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Called promoting the sport

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Jim we are have a fruitful conversation without provocative comments..!

This battle about Crate Motors is not much different than Pure Stock community Or earlier about the GT classes.
Stock had to morph for many reasons.
Such as the plethora of high performance Vehicles from other non US companies and not being included into Stock.
The new generation of kids like the Rice Burners because that is what they can afford.
The pitiful US choices against the foreign markets.
The 91-96 B-body community is growing because useful platforms are available.
When GM Ford and Chrysler reformed after the recession.
They began producing some cool cars...
Including race ready Factory race cars for $100000 !

Crate Motors is natural extension of Stock.
Spirit of Stock taking approved combinations and stuffing into useful platforms.
Combinations that run in the same ET range as current Stock before the COPO and Factory built racers.
Older and nostalgic combinations are being considered with modern engines.
Where their older power plants with vintage parts are becoming expensive.
Upgrading from a 273 4v to and 360 4v is a bolt in procedure.
Think Pure Stock would benefit allowing us to upgrade to a more powerful version.

Already Stock has morphed from Stock with limited Cam specs to junior Super Stock.
In 70s and 80s the Stockers were never quick enough to qualify in a SS field, but they are now!

At any rate Crate Motors cars are a good addition to Stock.

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Why, based on some info posted in this thread concerning car counts would NHRA adopt CM into competition when the guys that run CM don't even show up to the IHRA races?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

They show up!
You have to attend an IHRA race to see them!
D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

You sound like someone who built a racecar and wants to rewrite the rules and the NHRA, which you don't race, to suit your own agenda....

If you think that the NHRA needs saving, build a legal NHRA car and enter some events.....

There are also people who buy a house next to an airport because it is cheaper...
After they buy they put all of their efforts into closing the airport that was there first...

Just sayin'

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Well said Bob.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Well said, Bob.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Good point! Even better analogy is buying near a racetrack! NHRA doesn't need these cars, just look at the post up here from people with 4 grade points trying to get in a National event. I had 4 and couldn't get in Maple Grove. After it dropped to 65 I watched it like a hawk all day Monday lol!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Good point, there are traditional stockers not getting in. I think i counted 14 or 15 FS cars for Maple Grove.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

People have already spent double, triple, or quadruple what I did to run Super Stock. I still won races, and a World Championship. While I just missed them a few times on the ladder, I never had a heads-up run over several years in Super Stock. If I had a heads-up, I would lose. If I spent triple and they spent quadruple, I would still lose -- what's the point? No sense in spending money I don't have if it wouldn't benefit me. I worked on my car within my budget to try to go faster for my own satisfaction.

People outspent me in Crate Motor, too. I won some heads-up races, I lost some heads-up races. I set numerous records, won and lost Class, and won two World Championships and numerous Division Championships. How much someone else spends is completely irrelevant, so long as you can run under the index. I'm sorry if anyone is offended that they have more money than I will ever have. The Turismo must REALLY p*ss people off. :p

I love you, too, but you know me far better than to ever throw a BS line like "liberal"-anything my way.


This discussion is academic anyway, as IHRA is dying and NHRA isn't going to add Crate Motors.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

YEAH just like other people did in the past !
SO what?
What is it you want to forget ... FS, GT, ProMod, Bracket Racing, Pure Stock to Stock, Pro Stock...

Everything morphs because it can !!

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Pure Stock did not "morph into Stock", Stock was here first. NHRA tried Pure Stock for a short while several years ago, then dropped it.

As Michael stated, IHRA is dying, and NHRA is not going to add crate motors.
Nor add Pure Stock again.
Might want to build an NHRA car, or go bracket racing.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Thanks for validating what I said Ed !
It was Pure Stock ever before it was Stock.
After 1973 the Blueprinted cams were reintroduced and has not stopped morphing.....
Basically Stock today is SS Lite !!
More complex and new rules implemented to keep the cars safe.

IHRA is not dying and will survive because enough us want it to.
I am not a complaining sideliner.
Doing my bit being a Contingency Sponsor.

Hope that someone on the Crate Motor side may do the same.
Create a buzz and start a movement !

Pure Stock LIVES !!
and
So will Crate Motor !!

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan I admire your enthusiasm but when you have a "National" event and don't even get 100 cars to show up I would say its definitely on life support. I don't know how you go to a track owner and try to sell them a National event next year after the numbers I've seen the last several races.
I do hope they make it and it turns around.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Thank you..!
IHRA is attracting an ok amount of cars, just not enough !
I like the IHRA model which allows us two days to race.
Got a lot of ideas that think will work to attract racers and the public.

My IT business is 25 years old and you learn a few lessons.
How do you survive and profit in tough times.

I learned to ask myself Why and not others why?
Who, what, when, where, chasing the hidden, overlooked and subtle.

Mentioned this before
I will forever kick myself for not supporting Mike Beard on his second attempt to build up his S/SS race.
The Pure Stock Challenge had momentum and lost it.
It was an opportunity to attract more cars than the year before.
I let him down.

Crate Motor movement needs their own advocate.
Someone needs to step up to make it better.
I like that they do something different.

Already got one Movement to work on.

Dan

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, I set NHRA national records in Stock back in the 1960s, and it was NOT the same as Pure Stock. Appearing to think we ran GM cams, right out of the box, stock appearing pistons & rings, etc,etc, shows how little you know about it.

When almost no cars or spectators show up, and pretty much no contingency sponsors, it is dying.

My business is 45 years old. I can tell when one is dying. IHRA is dying.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

That's for sure.
They don't want all the cars they have now.
Fall Vegas filled up @ 5 GP's, 6 weeks in advance. So, either they want you to go to more and more points meets, or just go away all together.
They only want 4 cars on Sunday for filler, so eventually, they'll probably just invite the top 4 F/X cars in points or something like that.
What they're actually doing is driving class cars back to the association races.
Most of them allow IHRA class cars. That's where C/M and Pure cars ought to do their racing.
NHRA doesn't want us..and they don't want you.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

And there's your thread killer!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

The End!!! Finally!!! Rip!!!

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Ed
You do not speak for me!
I ran Stock in 1972 and 73 with a 64 Impala SS.
Know the rules and what happened then.
Remember arguments what NHRA considered Legal despite the PN recorded.
Had to run the pistons in the stock position.
Ran off the national records instead of the index.
If you ran low 12's you were considered screaming fast.
Later ran a 69 Impala in M/SA until marriage and family took center stage.

IHRA has never been a popular as NHRA.
Even NASCAR is having issues.


D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Can I get a hell yeah!!!!!!...AMEN.....

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Both at same time?

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Totally agree Bob. I am sure the index would be totally bogus like now...... and even harder for Tech to police. It seems there is an agenda to push stock backwards to make it easier to race for some in the class without performance. Is it cheap? No but I knew that going in. For me its more about performance than dial. As for this crate stuff.... Morph into bracket racing. Leave stock alone..

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Look Mr Chad 2113 we have the same rules as you do. Calling us one step from a bracket car ??? Really !!! Then that means your one step up from a bracket car as well, think about it. My C\M car meets all IHRA rules just like your bracket car does, although mine is more stock then your is I'll bet !!! :cool:

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

So, your car could have been ordered from the factory with the engine you are running? That is the point Chad was trying to make. His could. You can run IHRA, that is what it evidently was built for, right? It meets IHRA rules, it does not meet NHRA rules. If you had built a traditional Stocker as Chad did, you could (as Chad can) run both. Just go run IHRA.

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Interesting how accommodating IHRA is to the racer.
NHRA has considered Crate Motors and may still happen.
Like that you car race twice in a weekend.
Not going to happen in NHRA.

As for CM engine being less expensive, it is not that much difference.
Less expensive is a good idea considering running Stock is expensive.
Our biggest cost are the Rigs, Tow Vehicles, Lodging, Fuel and stuff breaks.
AND the Parroting is because why you don't like CM?

NHRA would be wise to adopt Pure Stock and CM.
It would help both Drag Racing operations.
More people would build them.

Maybe that is the real ire about CM and PS?

D

Re: Crate Motor Class
 

Dan, maybe you could explain why it would be "wise" for NHRA to open the door to allow Pure Stock or Crate Motor cars into Stock Eliminator. It seems like there are already more real NHRA legal Stockers out there than spots in NHRA National events. As for "helping both organizations", if the entire 6 car Pure Stock contingent moved to NHRA, how would that help IHRA? Why, that seems to be about 1/2 the number of Stockers racing in IHRA "national events" these days!