Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Jim, in 69 it was corvette only. It's pretty widely known knowledge

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Greg

I really wasn't trying to give you crap about you and your son's engine combos, I had a legit question and asked nicely if you could answer it

Once again you are wrong about most everything concerning my combo, so let me bring you up to speed. The 390 did not get the big camshaft that you mentioned, and still runs the same spec camshaft that came from Ford in 1967. Also I run the smaller 715 cfm Holley list number 3301 and not the 735 or the 780.

You are right about the 390's not being able to out run the 327's in 67. Thats what makes me wonder, why my dog 390 motor that can't run with the 327's in the day only gets 1 hp taken off the Factory Rating (320hp Factory to 319 NHRA Factor now) and you get 35hp taken off. Really doesn't make sense, so thanks for bringing that up.

Oh, my motor did not come out of a school bus, it was out of a Septic Tank Pump Truck.

The thing that troubles me most, other than the fact you don't know the difference between "come'r" and "sic'um" IMO, ........ is I never knew that you were so.......... sensitive.

Been doing any trick riding on you pit bike lately??

RJ

Merry Christmas

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Merry Christmas!! If this pictures come out, the left side is old cars, the right side is new cars, and the middle is obvious. Never mind, it was my trophy case decorated for Christmas. Maybe tomorrow.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That is classic !!

One might wonder which end of the truck it came out of, but I won't ask.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Listen to RJ for 10 minutes and you won't wonder! Lol JK RJ

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Jeff Colvert's car is the one with a school bus motor.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Chad I take that as a compliment coming from you.

Does Leslie know that you are playing with yourself on the computer?? lol

Have a Merry Christmas you two.

RJ

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Thanks RJ. Y'all too.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The FX classes I would fully support , but for some reason the people putting up the money want the new cars in the stock classes . My guess is they want to sell what they race.

Recently I read that Nascar is doing a change on the car of tomorrow because of pressure from the auto manufactures for the same reason , they want to race what they sell. GM is building the new SS for Nascar and Im sure Ford and Toyota will follow with what they want to race as well .

I dont think with the Big Three building these new cars that they are going to cave in on putting the new cars into FX . We need to find something that everyone can live with and do it sooner rather then later.

For those that dont redo their motors every year you will just have to update when you can if NHRA was to allow performance enhancements ( no disrespect intended )

I will say one thing about the new Ford stuff , part are very reasonably priced , the 5.4L motor can go 200-300 runs on piston and rods and you can run them hard . With the old combo I ran 100 runs was the limit . So if there is a silver lining for the new stuff parts are less expensive and they last longer .

Happy Holidays

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

And just think, I talked RJ into building the 352. Looking forward to seeing everybody at the races next year.

Merry Christmas and happy New Year

Kirk

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The DP engines that got factored in Stock have not yet in SS.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Mark..... Stock has never had equality and harmony. Happy Holidays, Sam.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Lots of luck......NHRA is NEVER going to do it.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Chad,

Thanks, us Mopar guy's don't pay much attention to them Chevy things!

JimR

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

F/X will never happen. If it did, only the fastest guys would stick with it. The rest would quit because they couldn't have their way on the playground as they currently do (in heads-up situations).

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It won't be to long and the fastest stock national record will be faster then the SS/AH record. How cool is that? WOW. All that at a fraction of the cost.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Yea, really cool, right....


NOT

Harry, not mocking your statement because I really saw it as being facetious.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

There you go again hating the new cars..

Once again, what race, what date, and in what round were you so wrongly embarrassed by one of the new cars, that you just can't get over and see the need to take unsubstantiated weak shots at them?

But apparently you are clairvoyant, since you can predict what "would" happen..... if.

Maybe you should just use your "talents" as a phone psychic....

Did you see that one coming? If not, then I guess you should leave the forecasting of other people's behavior alone.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

New Hemi: I was beaten by the under-factored LT1's and LS1's back in the early 90's in many heads-up runs long before you ever showed your face at an NHRA event. I've been very lucky and haven't had to run one of the new cars heads-up yet, but I'm sure it's coming. When it rains, it usually pours. Keep in mind also, that my car is no "slouch". But that was nothing compared to what's going on now. It's history repeating, but with far more bogus factors. How long have you been racing Stock Eliminator? Oh, that's right you just showed up about 3 years ago, but that's enough for you to qualify yourself as an expert on the subject.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I am no expert but I was the victim of a few heads-up runs with cars that are way under-factored on horsepower. Cut a .012 light, the other guy is .090 and drives by and takes 20' of stripe at 15 mph slower speed.

Eventually I got tired of running a good car that would go .75 under and get crushed if the Ladder didn't go my way by a car that can easily go 1.2 under on the brakes.

I would buy a Stocker and go back to that class with one rule change:

**No heads-up runs during eliminations. Simple rule change, takes the bogus HP cars out of the "real race" and lets the drivers settle it.
*I also think part of that rule should say there will be Class Eliminations at every National Event on Friday morning. That way the guys who are about squeezing everything out of the car can still get their "Class Winner Trophies and hopefully some contingency $$".

I think you would see 15 to 20% more cars at LODRS and National events, maybe more. When you are positive you can't win a heads-up race...why spend $500 to $800 to go to an event and HOPE you won't have a heads-up race? It's obvious, a lot of guys leave nice cars at home because of the heads-up rule during eliminations.

Jok

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I see your point, but NHRA will never have class at every national event. If they were to do what you stated with eliminations, it would probably happen at divisionals and leave the nationals alone............i wonder if we could run class on Sat nights at divisionals

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

My vote is to put this thread to bed before someone posts something they will regret.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

i am not old enough to remember when...but i'd asume the same thing was happening in 68-70 with the bogus hp ratings on the 426 Hemis, the 430 hp 454 (vs. the 435hp)...and i'd bet that the 62 pontiac 421 were under rated, maybe even the crazy small block full size chevy pickup that qualified number one earlier this year seems way under rated.

you guys are funny, bitchin just to bitch. oh ya, i only left the ford guys out because my knowledge and interest in ford products is quite low (other than the 62 G code fairlane with the 401 ci 425 engine - i think that was the combo...its ford what can isay!, i really like that one).

stock and superstock has always been about the new cars with their new horsepower. in the sixties and seventies if you wanted to run a 30 year old vehicle at the drags you ran in a gasser class. we are all lucky NHRA/ IHRA doesn't put limits on how old a car can be, they leave it wide open like 1955 or newer, what if they said 20 year old limit!

in the late sixties, it didnt matter how far under an early 60s car would run, in the eighties, no one cared about the late 60's, in the 90's most forgot about about the 80s and in the 2000's when the small cars came out it was all about the GT conversions, until a few big hitters went back to to the full size 80 cars. Now, for the first time in near 40 years the big three are building race cars again and your all crying? Come on, get with it. This is more than we all should have ever hoped for, factory race support from all three manufactures.

it is simple, you shouldnt be able to compete with the new cars, non of us should, it is what sells new cars, they are expensive, clean, and seriously fast AND under rated, how else could the factories ensure more than just the diehards would purchase them! it is what sold the GT conversions, it is what sold all the next great thing type cars when they were new, other wise there would be more 67-2000 camaro cars than there are (and fill in the blank _______ brand cars - mustangs, avengers etc.)

i agree with the post below that discussed having class at each race and having no headsup runs during regular eliminations.

Ian

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I would rather see the death of stock, then It come to this. Why build a car to rules then? If the new cars could be factored a little closer to reality that would be fair, none of this discussion would take place. If no heads up's why have any rules. Stupid suggestion, go back to pro ET. That should fit your personality better.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Ian I think you are thinking of the 406ci 401hp galaxie but anyway. I disagree with doing away with the heads up runs in the eliminator. I also disagree with these new cars adding an additional sales numbers to the factory show room cars. I would be different if I could go to Cheby or Mopar or even Ford and buy a CJ with any of the combinations that are racing today. In the 60's when the 406 was kicking but or when the 427's, 428, 396 or 440 etc... where winning on Sunday you really could go to your local dealership and buy that car for the most part. You can't go buy a CJ, DP or COPO and drive it home and race it this weekend. To me they failed in that arena for that reason. Other than that the cars are cool and all but the '13 NA 5.0 are overrated. Just my .02

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Go back to class winners only, then no heads up in eleminations.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Exactly!!!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Their is always room for new leaders!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

x2

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I agree. Minds are already made up, and will not ever be changed.

It is a lot like the old saying that goes for both sides of the opinions (no insults intended)

"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

The NHRA isn't going to do anything about more than they have done.
And about everything meaningful in the way of suggestions has already been offered.

It is unfortunate that some have begun and persist in personal attacks. But enough is enough

So freezing this thread is probably the best course of action.

But nobody listens to me anyway, so.... whatever....

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

You really don't know very much. That is obvious.

Why don't you just go find another illegal car to race and get hp for the combination until you get caught again?

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

My point exactly.

Hook, line and sinker.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

[QUOTE=NewHemi;360344]
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

That's alright, I've been called worse names before.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Late to the party, quick to leave but has all the answers

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

The problem here is for those of us that have raced stock elim for 20 + years is. We went through the pains of the LT-1 and LS-1 years and we took a beating for several years till NHRA put them in there own class, then once hp ratings got in line put them back in regular classes. We don't have enough time and don't want to relive it again. Unfortunately looks like we might have to.

Back in the 90's I got whipped like a redheaded step child over and over again by the LT-1 cars heads up. I Did happen to win one heads up in 2000 against Edmond Richardson at Joliet Nats. The only reason was I had a really good tune up for the Oxygenated fuel. Without it I would have been smashed. The difference between now and then is they had us by 3 tenths and these new factory experimental cars have us by 6-8 and it's is WRONG.

My father was lucky enough to get a few cars from the factory back in the 60's that they only built 25-50 of, did not have a Vin# and could not be bought off the show room floor. Guess what class he raced in then.......A and B Factory Eperimental.

It's not the owners of these cars that we don't like or blame it's the organization.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Thanks Monte, I was wondering how someone could not like a big cuddlebear like me. As far as the FX, I proposed an A/FX and B/FX months and months ago after Indy. It would eliminate most of the cars from heads up except for their own kind, but would still be in Stock Eliminator. Some of the V8 cars have already moved out of the way. NHRA is looking at it.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Real classy.....:cool:

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

If it wasn't the truth it might be wrong.

But not only was the car illegal after taking many class wins and getting lots of hp for the combination, the owners defense was that it ws always that way even though the engine had been redone..

Maybe it was a mistake, and the owner or builder didn't know any better. I don't think Jeff would cheat, but somebody missed the specs. Regardless of the reason why, the car was indeed illegal. And it was only discovered whenthe car was finally torn down as a result of a record run.

But I am done with this thread.

You all can continue beating the dead horse if you want.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

What difference does it make how long he's been racing? He is still entitled to his opinion.

How long have you been racing? 10 maybe 15 years? Those of us that have been around for 40 years or more have seen this problem with underrated cars come and go, but never before have we seen the NHRA push this type of car on us in Stock Eliminator. These "Factory" cars always went to SS or FX because they were not showroom legal.

There is nothing wrong with a racer going out and buying a car that the NHRA says is Stock legal or in David's case building one. It's the NHRA's fault that they let these car's compete in Stock not the individual owners.

The bad guy here is the NHRA!

JimR