Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Cvengros is utterly useless and ignorant. I exchanged five emails with him the other year and he positively refused to even ACKNOWLEDGE the question that I repeatedly asked him. He talked all around it, and half of what he said was wrong. It was absolutely unbelievable. I would have fired him on the spot. He is one of the reasons why I quit running NHRA.


Agreed! If people want to play the game as NHRA allows, fine, play the game, but to defend such things AND have the audacity to get indignant about it is ridiculous. Telling Greg Hill to "get to work" is height of audacity and ridiculousness!

When I ran Super Stock, I ran the obscenely underfactored 275HP 5.9L DragPak. I did it because it was legal, and it's what I could afford. But I never went around telling people how hard I worked or how fair the HP factor was. Quite the opposite!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Suddenly I have the erge to have some tshirts made, being Italian it's very fitting.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

There you go Jim! :D:D:D

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

NHRA told me (in writing) that the LD340 intake was not legal on a 1971 340 only on 340's pre '71.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I feel ya greg, the mopar boys have got a lot of gifts in the last few yrs, manifolds on the 340 and 273 plus 318 heads for the 273, aluminum heads for the 340 and 383 without the hp penalty the big chevy has to pay and sponge soft factoring 383 the
same as 350 chev 426 street wedge very similar to 350 chev. Its not that they are
that fast they are just in the wrong class!! lol

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

how much hp are given to the combos that can get a beefier block that other combos will never see, shall we eliminate those as well?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Like the Ritter block for mopar, ford Motorsport,
Or Bowtie? Lol

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

you are not mentioning all of the six cylinder combos or combos that do not have any replacement blocks

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

What's your point?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

how much hp is picked up by having beefier blocks that will allow a better cylinder

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

It's kind of nice running a combo where there is nothing available, you don't get caught up in all this BS.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

This is a D-H/sa thread!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

This is about a manifold that people say never came with that style manifold. There are people i would assume that are running blocks that never came with that combo. So how much hp are they getting from able to run a style block that never came in that engine. And because of this how much farther under the index can they run and get on the top half of the ladder

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Ain't that the truth Jim! But I still manage to get myself caught up "in all the BS".

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

and that manifold DIDN'T come on that engine. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, again, what's your point?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

A decent start on a 1970s B/SM engine. Such is the state of Stocker racing in the 21st century. Haven't we come far?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

If you want to know where that manifold came from just google direct connection catalog. It's in the 1975 version of the catalog. Read what the description says about the LD 340.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Greg, it actually goes back further than that. It can be found in the old Hustle Parts catalogs. And the catalog clearly states that any part with a P prefix is an aftermarket part.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

gee, sounds similar to the amc group 19 fiasco;)

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Exactly.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

And what do both these clusters have in common......you guessed it.....Pat Cevengros.....

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

M.J., what always amazes me is how the NHRA Tech Dept. can constantly make mistakes, be shown with positive proof that have made a mistake and then deny or ignore the fact that they've made a mistake. Now I understand that they can't be an expert on each and every subject but there are Racers (dues-paying members, I might add) out there that are and they are ignored. Maybe it's time to start petitioning and protesting to insist that the SRAC have more of a say and maybe even veto powers over Glendora. It just keeps stinking more and more of buddy deals.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

neither did any combo that got a stronger block,

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

David, I'm missing your point about a stronger block. What does that have to do with aluminum intakes and heads? Do you mean that certain Stock combos get to use aftermarket blocks? If you do, there are just as many Mopar combos that can use aftermarket blocks as GM and FFFord and I actually agree with them being available. There would be a whole lot less Hemi cars out there without them.
Just FYI, if you hear of any approved aftermarket blocks for a Pontiac 301 or a Chevy inline 6, please let me know.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

that should mean AMC could use an indy block?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Hi Billy, there are many discussions on the Mopar forums of guys that have paid 4 to 5K and waited 3-4 years for an aftermarket block. Every few years another company makes a small amount of them then they stop, most of them aren't legal for stock anyway. The GMs and Fords benefit from them greatly as far as adding more power and the Chevy guys can buy them all day long for half of what it cost to get on the 3 year waiting list for a Chrysler block that they may never get.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Its about having a level playing field, you bitch so much about two manifolds , it makes you look like Don Quixote. And again, you seem to see the forest through the trees. How many combos can't get aftermarket blocks?

And you not finding a manifold or block, it is not my problem

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

David, THAT'S my point exactly! Why did NHRA approve an "aftermarket" aluminum intake for a 273 or a 340 just because the original is getting hard to find! It's not MY problem! If you can't find the correct parts then don't build the combo!
Why did NHRA approve replacement "aftermarket" aluminum cylinder head for ANYTHING just because the original is getting hard to find! It's not MY problem!
The fact that you are either too cheap or too lazy to find and buy the right parts is not MY problem! Either buy a new Drag Pack or build a Slant 6!
This stuff becomes MY problem when someone in Glendora who doesn't know the repercussions of what he is doing gets involved in playing god and I have to race against the results!
And don't try and give me the "but you don't have to race against it" crap, if I've got to qualify against it then I've got to race against it. Now it's MY problem!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Hi Paul, You're right, I've heard the horror stories but to quote David Lee, "it is not my problem".

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I sure hope I see you this weekend.......

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Then, you have no argument against the manifolds,

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Again David, I'm missing your point.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

wow, is it that hard. How much hp does these non stock blocks give, answer that

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I just looked at Nitro Joe's stats, 62/65 competitors in D/SA have an aftermarket block listed available for their combo in the NHRA Accepted Products list (no Olds 455 or Buick 455 available, as far as I know). Yes, it is unfortunate there are not better blocks available for some combinations, but that doesn't make it ok to accept an intake manifold that's was originally listed by Mopar as "the result of an extensive dynamometer and track development program" and "for your super stocker, formula car, or bracket racer."

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

why are you just limiting to one class, billy goes after the 273 manifold regularly. Even in this conversation.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

This thread is discussing an intake manifold that is run in classes D-H.

If you're really concerned about an aftermarket block, make one or get one made, submit it to NHRA. You can do that if you really wanted to. I cannot make a manifold or get one made and have NHRA accept it.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

You lost me at "Blocks that will allow a better cylinder".

Why are you complaining about the blocks when the subject is about intakes and cylinder heads?
The majority of the racers are going fast with the OEM block both filled and unfilled.
It boils down to the quality of the machine work and the final finish of the cylinder walls.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

So wall thickness and deck thickness have nothing to do with a better seal. And if so many racers are going fast, with stock blocks, why the need for aftermarket blocks.

And you want to limit it to that one subject.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

David, what side of the crusade are you on? What would you like to contribute to the conversation? Do you feel that the lack of an aftermarket block for the 273-360 is reason enough for the allowance of non OEM Cylinder Heads and Intake? Am I understanding you correctly? Just clarifying

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I am, and i see people like you and Billy doing a lot of tap dancing. How much extra hp does aftermarkets give?