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-   -   Original hemi dart information (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=13002)

Terry Witzel 12-28-2014 05:45 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
Has this Dart been on here before?

Liteweight 12-29-2014 11:09 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine (Post 456617)
April 1968

Tom Spanbauer 'Liberty Bell II' {Oshkosh, Wisconsin}

Having all sorts of handling problems. The Dart was jumping to
the left between shifts.

Those Uni-Body frames.

http://img2.newspapers.com/img/thumb....jpg?cs=604800
Not the unibodies causing them to lane change. It was due to the steering geometry resulting from the K member being dropped half an inch. There was close to an inch of toe change from full front suspension extension to rebound due to the outter tie rods arc location.. These cars are SCAREY to drive left in this condition. Chrysler sent out parts to place the upper balljoint in a different location to correct this.

liteweight

Travis Miller 01-01-2015 09:36 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Having surfed through the entire "Original hemi dart information", I am impressed with the historical knowledge offered by those who have posted. However like many other internet threads that have been around for a while, the early posted photos are rapidly disappearing. Would it be possible for those who posted early on here to check and see if their photos are still visible? If not, it would be a nice gesture to re-post photos that have disappeared so readers such as myself can see the entire story that has been laid out. Thank you in advance.

Liteweight 01-01-2015 11:14 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Miller (Post 457161)
Having surfed through the entire "Original hemi dart information", I am impressed with the historical knowledge offered by those who have posted. However like many other internet threads that have been around for a while, the early posted photos are rapidly disappearing. Would it be possible for those who posted early on here to check and see if their photos are still visible? If not, it would be a nice gesture to re-post photos that have disappeared so readers such as myself can see the entire story that has been laid out. Thank you in advance.
Welcome here Travis

Wow, you've done ALOT of reading. It's too bad these early pictures are being deleted as this thread gets larger, & I wish there was some way of stopping that because there's a lot of very cool pictures here that have been contributed. I don't know if the administrators can stop that. sure wish they would.
Administrators, can this be done???????

As far as reposting all that have been deleted, I really don't know if that is possible, as there's members here that come & go all the time. The biggist loss is Hemimoose.
Sure would like to see him back. That's a special invite for you HM if you still frequent here & see this.

liteweight

Charlie A 01-02-2015 12:03 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Sad but true. Some photobucket accounts seem to expire or don't stay active and those photos go away. Others seem to expire for whatever reason. Good that many are still on Google and can be reposted. Its the "one of a kind" private photos that will never come back (I guess).

Really sucks!

Liteweight 01-02-2015 10:57 AM
****poll test******
 
Happy New Year to all

750,000, 3/4 of a MILLION plus views. Unbelievable!!!!!. Must be a record for one thread on a forum. Thankyou to all !!!!!!

So, I came up with an idea just to see how many followers there are for THIS thread & The Manhattan Speed Parts Dart. I am starting a new thread to get a poll on the head count.

It'll be titled ***** POLL TEST**** Original Hemi Dart & Manhattan Speed Parts Dart.

Click on it, but do not comment on it. And ONLY VISIT IT ONCE. This is the most important to get a reasonably accurate number.

To the Administrators. I will keep this on the top of the post list to keep it current for the month of January. After that I'll let it go, so don't ban me for doing this. Thanx.
This is just a wanna know thing.

liteweight

Charlie A 01-02-2015 07:58 PM
Re: ****poll test******
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liteweight (Post 457195)
Happy New Year to all

750,000, 3/4 of a MILLION plus views. Unbelievable!!!!!. Must be a record for one thread on a forum. Thankyou to all !!!!!!

So, I came up with an idea just to see how many followers there are for THIS thread & The Manhattan Speed Parts Dart. I am starting a new thread to get a poll on the head count.

It'll be titled ***** POLL TEST**** Original Hemi Dart & Manhattan Speed Parts Dart.

Click on it, but do not comment on it. And ONLY VISIT IT ONCE. This is the most important to get a reasonably accurate number.

To the Administrators. I will keep this on the top of the post list to keep it current for the month of January. After that I'll let it go, so don't ban me for doing this. Thanx.
This is just a wanna know thing.

liteweight

Please go there and remove my post that I put up before reading the entire notice.

71Dartman440 01-02-2015 09:12 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
May be a repost but just in case...a really, really great photo album.


Link to the Jonathan "Whitey" Russell Collection:


http://murdercycles.com/v-web/gallery/album66


Picts of L023 Dart's on Pages 10, 11, 12, 19, and 21.

beekool 01-02-2015 11:08 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
of course NO pics of pass. side w/dent in quarter

Charlie A 01-03-2015 12:18 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekool (Post 457265)
of course NO pics of pass. side w/dent in quarter
You mean this dent?

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...psbdf939f2.jpg

jack arnew 01-03-2015 05:53 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liteweight (Post 456754)
Not the unibodies causing them to lane change. It was due to the steering geometry resulting from the K member being dropped half an inch. There was close to an inch of toe change from full front suspension extension to rebound due to the outter tie rods arc location.. These cars are SCAREY to drive left in this condition. Chrysler sent out parts to place the upper balljoint in a different location to correct this.

liteweight
Did a lot of Dart and Cuda suspensions back then and also many different brands for stock,super stock and outher classes.But toe change was not the only problem with front ends. Never found any problems with upper bal joints on mopars . The drop k frame was 75% of it , but most could not aquire enought caster from stock adjustments and had way too much camber change .Never found any issues after the cars were on front end machine as long as rear end suspension checked out. But have to agree they were a real hand full before any work was performed.
The very first Cuda's I did were Bill Stiles's SS/AA and my SS/A, first Dart was Richard Shipley's SS/AA, this was in late1968 or1969. Now I'm back in the game,as my son no longer wants to do the cars They would not let me retire for too long I guess. Will very soon have the new SS/AH of Dave Collette's on the machine. What a beautiful car this is. And I'm running a 67 Dart in nostalgia super stock circuit next season myself. Hope it's more fun and less work than last time.

jack arnew 01-03-2015 06:03 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
[quote=Liteweight;456754]Not the unibodies causing them to lane change. It was due to the steering geometry resulting from the K member being dropped half an inch. There was close to an inch of toe change from full front suspension extension to rebound due to the outter tie rods arc location.. These cars are SCAREY to drive left in this condition. Chrysler sent out parts to place the upper balljoint in a different location to correct this.

liteweight[/quote
Have followed from page 1 and the info in here helps the younger racers have a insite as to how it was for us old guys in the 60,70,80's, and see what it will take to restore one of these machines. Your Dart is a 10. Thanks for opening this form been great reading...Jack

Liteweight 01-07-2015 01:06 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Thanx for the good words Jack.

This car didn't have the modified parts sent out by Chrysler when I got it. It had all the correct kelsey Hayes brakes on it with the 4 1/2" bolt circle rotors only.

This was the most evil handling Mopar I've ever driven when I got it.. Toe change through it's suspension travel was just short of 1", & it wasn't equal side to side through it's travel. The camber change was horrible too.

I squared up the center link height side to side by shimming the steering box in one direction, & shimming the idler the other. To correct the camber change, I installed adjustable upper control arms. Next was relocationing the outter tie rod heights. This was done with heim ends & shims.

now it has less than 1/8" toe change through it's full travel, about 1/2* of camber change, & almost 5* of caster in it.

liteweight




http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps03b8672d.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8235fc9b.jpg

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/...ps46c318af.jpg

71Dartman440 01-11-2015 09:24 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
May be re-post of an L023 but just in case. Came across this clean pict today on the AMC Race Photo Forum.


Note the closed lugnuts; stock lugs?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...26551727_n.jpg

hemid68 01-12-2015 02:35 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
Today - Morgan Family and Friends Motorsports Hemi Dart (former Ray Rixman Dodge)- In August 2015 it will be 40 years since I rescued it from a junk yard!
Dan

Charlie A 01-12-2015 09:16 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemid68 (Post 458220)
Today - Morgan Family and Friends Motorsports Hemi Dart (former Ray Rixman Dodge)- In August 2015 it will be 40 years since I rescued it from a junk yard!
Dan
http://classracer.com/classforum/att...2&d=1421044175

tommy d 01-18-2015 12:40 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
Found on f.b.

rhinodaert 01-18-2015 09:29 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack arnew (Post 457329)
Did a lot of Dart and Cuda suspensions back then and also many different brands for stock,super stock and outher classes.But toe change was not the only problem with front ends. Never found any problems with upper bal joints on mopars . The drop k frame was 75% of it , but most could not aquire enought caster from stock adjustments and had way too much camber change .Never found any issues after the cars were on front end machine as long as rear end suspension checked out. But have to agree they were a real hand full before any work was performed.
The very first Cuda's I did were Bill Stiles's SS/AA and my SS/A, first Dart was Richard Shipley's SS/AA, this was in late1968 or1969. Now I'm back in the game,as my son no longer wants to do the cars They would not let me retire for too long I guess. Will very soon have the new SS/AH of Dave Collette's on the machine. What a beautiful car this is. And I'm running a 67 Dart in nostalgia super stock circuit next season myself. Hope it's more fun and less work than last time.

I own Shipley's car now, was it always an automatic? I have seen docs that it was built as a 4-speed but nobody seems to know for sure. I wish I could find color pictures of it when he raced it, seems to be few and far inbetween. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I will be starting the resto this year back to the Poison Dart paint scheme.


Jim

marfen 01-19-2015 10:21 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
check the LH frame rail for evidence of a clutch z bar pivot that may still be there or evidence that one was there. Floor pan surgery may give you some idea .

Liteweight 01-19-2015 11:03 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinodaert (Post 458905)
I own Shipley's car now, was it always an automatic? I have seen docs that it was built as a 4-speed but nobody seems to know for sure. I wish I could find color pictures of it when he raced it, seems to be few and far inbetween. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I will be starting the resto this year back to the Poison Dart paint scheme.


Jim
Good to hear Jim. It'll be great to see another of these back in the limelight.

marfen (Dave) has a great idea there bout the bracket on the frame rail

liteweight

Liteweight 01-19-2015 05:09 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
I just got PM'd this message. Anyone?



I am a new member and late tot he post. did you ever find the original owner of your car?
Sam Dell dealership in syracuse ny purchased a 1968 hemi dodge dart. It was called the Dells Devil and was raced by John Bullock and skipworth

jack arnew 01-20-2015 07:48 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinodaert (Post 458905)
I own Shipley's car now, was it always an automatic? I have seen docs that it was built as a 4-speed but nobody seems to know for sure. I wish I could find color pictures of it when he raced it, seems to be few and far inbetween. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I will be starting the resto this year back to the Poison Dart paint scheme.


Jim
Richard Shipley's Dart was brought to me direct from G/S in Detroit, and was A/T car. It still was in primer and rear quarters were unpainted with brass showing from body alterations for tire clearence. These cars were not a finished product at all when delivered. I think I can find Richard's son, he may have some shots of the Dart.If you contact me , I'll do what I can to help....Jack

Charlie A 01-20-2015 10:57 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Applause-Applause-Applause :cool:

For That ^^^^^^^^ Up there!

The previous post!

rhinodaert 01-22-2015 12:04 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack arnew (Post 459156)
Richard Shipley's Dart was brought to me direct from G/S in Detroit, and was A/T car. It still was in primer and rear quarters were unpainted with brass showing from body alterations for tire clearence. These cars were not a finished product at all when delivered. I think I can find Richard's son, he may have some shots of the Dart.If you contact me , I'll do what I can to help....Jack


Thanks Jack, I almost sold the original Hurst Dual Gate that I bought last year, and it was from a real Hemi Dart. I have everything to put a 4-speed in the car, but now that I know for sure that it was an automatic my plans have changed! The floor pan was cut-out sometime in it's life so that the trans could be removed easily, so I had no idea for sure what trans came in it. You have a PM.

rhinodaert 01-22-2015 12:06 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liteweight (Post 459014)
I just got PM'd this message. Anyone?



I am a new member and late tot he post. did you ever find the original owner of your car?
Sam Dell dealership in syracuse ny purchased a 1968 hemi dodge dart. It was called the Dells Devil and was raced by John Bullock and skipworth

Daryl, that sounds promising! Never heard of this one before, fingers crossed!

Liteweight 01-22-2015 10:21 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinodaert (Post 459297)
Daryl, that sounds promising! Never heard of this one before, fingers crossed!
hey Jim

I'm pretty much 100% convinced my car is the Manhattan Speed Dart due to that dent. . There's been the question of only 3 Hemi darts originating from that area which left the Manhattan Speed Dart's origins unknown. The information Paul has provided confirms the beginnings of it not going through a dealer out there & why it couldn't be traced to a NY dealer. As you know it's hard to put a definate period on a cars history without a paper trail, but I'm going with that silver Dart owned by Pete M*****.

That previous post of the PM was to see if anyone has heard of the Dell's Devil or it's owners. Paul?? Jack Arnew you remember anything about it???

liteweight

a990hemi 01-23-2015 02:28 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
I don't believe this pic has been posted here yet. I acquired it from a Facebook page that I can no longer recall.


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...psa8544e76.jpg

Paul Ceasrine 01-23-2015 05:14 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liteweight (Post 459308)
hey Jim

I'm pretty much 100% convinced my car is the Manhattan Speed Dart due to that dent. . There's been the question of only 3 Hemi darts originating from that area which left the Manhattan Speed Dart's origins unknown. The information Paul has provided confirms the beginnings of it not going through a dealer out there & why it couldn't be traced to a NY dealer. As you know it's hard to put a definate period on a cars history without a paper trail, but I'm going with that silver Dart owned by Pete M*****.

That previous post of the PM was to see if anyone has heard of the Dell's Devil or it's owners. Paul?? Jack Arnew you remember anything about it???

liteweight

Daryl,

I know that John Bullock ran a 1965 Mopar Super/Stock car for
Sam Dell Dodge.

Sam Dell Dodge {West Genesee Street, Syracuse}.

As for a 1968 LO23 Hemi Dart.

Never found anything.

Paul Ceasrine 01-27-2015 03:47 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1969 ~ 'Aquasco Dragway', Maryland {AHRA sanctioned}

'Cookie Duster' {Owner; Thomas 'Tommy' Blowe}

https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...dc&oe=5553669E

71Dartman440 01-31-2015 10:52 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Found this under user "Scotch Canadian" on Panoramio photo host site. Wasn't sure if already posted.


http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/69806400.jpg

Charlie A 02-01-2015 12:13 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 71Dartman440 (Post 460448)
Found this under user "Scotch Canadian" on Panoramio photo host site. Wasn't sure if already posted.


http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/69806400.jpg
Repeat photo posts are great!
Many of the early photos submitted are dropping off with time.
Might be a good idea if we start making sure the name of one of the owner/driver/sponsor for each photo be in the text of the post.
That would make it easier to search as a reference.

gtx6970 02-02-2015 12:21 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrassx (Post 274840)
Think it has a Black & Red Paisley pattern in the seats. Been several years since I have seen the car.
Found this thread looking for information about the car.
But , In regards to the Kessler Brother Hemi Dart
Yes it has a real wild looking interior , Dash , seats kind of reminds me of a 60s bowling ball bag. If I remember right even the headliner is done in the same fashon . Here soon I'll get down there a snap off a few pics of the car.
I build models of old drag car,,,, and I want to do a model of the car in 1/25th scale

The car belongs to a friend of mine and yes its still in KY .

Currently it has a mild Hemi in it running the crossram on top. The car is long retired from any kind of active competition ,,, But he actually drives the car on the street around here a few times a year .

Liteweight 02-02-2015 12:34 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
welcome here gtx6970

i've personally seen the interior on that car, & you nailed it with the description of that interior. funkiest guts I've ever seen, period, never mind in one of these things.

liteweight

Charlie A 02-02-2015 09:44 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtx6970 (Post 460593)
Found this thread looking for information about the car.
But , In regards to the Kessler Brother Hemi Dart
Yes it has a real wild looking interior , Dash , seats kind of reminds me of a 60s bowling ball bag. If I remember right even the headliner is done in the same fashon . Here soon I'll get down there a snap off a few pics of the car.
I build models of old drag car,,,, and I want to do a model of the car in 1/25th scale

The car belongs to a friend of mine and yes its still in KY .

Currently it has a mild Hemi in it running the crossram on top. The car is long retired from any kind of active competition ,,, But he actually drives the car on the street around here a few times a year .
http://classracer.com/classforum/att...4&d=1422894990

wv_bob 02-03-2015 02:04 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtx6970 (Post 460593)
Found this thread looking for information about the car.
But , In regards to the Kessler Brother Hemi Dart
Yes it has a real wild looking interior , Dash , seats kind of reminds me of a 60s bowling ball bag. If I remember right even the headliner is done in the same fashon .
Photos below taken by someone else, posted on Moparts, 2006 Fred Englehart show.

Charlie A 02-03-2015 06:43 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Groovy....Roll another one.


http://classracer.com/classforum/att...1&d=1422986628

gtx6970 02-04-2015 10:21 AM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for those. I was at the owners place yesterday and there is no way to get any decent pics of the car. Its buried in the back of the shop and you cant hardly even get close enought to pull the cover off ot it.

I build models of old race cars and have been wanting to do a replica of this car for years. I finally found someone who can make decals but we need some nice overall , yet detailed pics of the paint work .

Car currently has a mild built street hemi in it, with the crossram, crank triggered ignition, so it looks and sounds the part.
But it's probably just a low 11second car today,,even with 5.13 gears and 32" tall tires

Thanks again
Bill

Terry Drinkwater 02-05-2015 06:36 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
Love the surplus military aircraft belts, lol ! That was pretty much standard back in the day!

freddyboy 02-07-2015 10:57 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
http://classracer.com/classforum/images/attach/jpg.gif Joe Faherty super stock A.jpg (129.0 KB)


At Sanair.

freddyboy 02-07-2015 10:59 PM
Re: Original hemi dart information
 
1 Attachment(s)
http://classracer.com/classforum/images/attach/jpg.gif SS A Joe Faherty 68 Dart.jpg (122.2 KB)


Sanair again.


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