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-   -   Redlight Poll (Revised) (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=31874)

bill dedman 03-06-2011 02:46 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 244204)
If you give Old Bill,Bunkster and god old Gary a good head shaking you'll hear some noise.That's probably the contents of their noggins.
Doesn't Bill remind you of the kids in the schoolyard who when they're out of anything to say come up with nah nah nah nah nah nah?Bill you're 72 act your age.Now go in the kitchen and have your bowl of oatmeal.


Have you ever noticed how, when Ed F. cannot answer the question at hand, his reaction is to change the subject and distract the reader by attacking the poster of the thread, bringing up issues that have no bearing on the subject matter?

That's his M.O., and it never changes; he thinks if he can discredit the credibility of the person who asked the question, maybe nobody will notice that he had NO ANSWER for the question that was asked.

That's the equivalent of what they used to call "yellow journalism," but it's his only line of defense for having no answer for the question.

I'm probably not tellling you anything you didn't already know... just thought it was worth mentioning.

bill dedman 03-06-2011 02:49 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 244175)
Like a lot of us, you enjoy a good laugh.

You would think it would eventually just die.
The only trouble with that is, laugh all you want, but until the problem is fixed, it's still with us.

bill dedman 03-06-2011 02:58 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Carr (Post 244179)
Bill, we've been over this before, but I will repeat it. Again. There is NO good, logical, legitimate reson for the current system, in the picture of fairness. BUT...

The current redlight rule, in the big picture of the present and (possible) future of Class Racing, is 'small potatoes' compared to the many, more pressing issues we face. If I were making a list of the Top 10 complaints felt by many racers (or, at least by myself), this issue would not make it. In no particular order:
1) We run on sometimes suspect track conditions, and sometimes on a cold, dewy evening track.
2) Contigency money has dwindled significantly.
3) Class Eliminations as we know it has all but ceased to exist.
4) The major sanctioning bodies are 'enhancing' us right out of the sport, with rules changes, added costs for pit bikes, etc.
5) The AHFS is broken. See early season qualifying sheets.
6) We have many new cars, many of whom would deem them to be 'not in the spirit of a true Stock Eliminator car'.
7) Current rules on tech that are not uniformly enforced.
8) The current payouts are not much more than the payouts were many years ago.
9) Getting pushed back for a day or two at a Nat'l event due to weather, oildowns, etc.

And on and on. If the MAJOR issues are resolved, than I would be more inclined to talk about the redlight issue. I think that is the reason why many don't support your cause as much. We realize that this issue (first/worst redlight) is a misdemeanor in the world filled with felonies in regard to modern NHRA/IHRA Class Racing.

Also, like I stated to you before (probably last year or whenever the last time this annual topic comes up), if you feel so strongly about this issue: Take up a petition, get everyone who supports a worst redlight scenario to sign, and mail, e-mail, fax, whatever, to everyone at NHRA, IHRA, local tracks, etc etc. But please, stop beating this dead horse, and actually DO something about it, instead of contantly harping about it on here annually. Please? I don't beg very often, but I'm begging you now. And yes, I would probably sign the petition if/when you started one.
I didn't bring this subject up; somebody else did.

You raise some very good points about :what needs to be fixed in "NHRA Sportsman racing" and I agree with all of them, but regardless of the hierarchy of the problems at hand, I don't agree that you can't work on THIS problem as long as the others still exist. Can NHRA only do one thing at a time?

This is an "easy fix" compared with a lot of that other stuff, and what small amount of time/money that is involved in resolving it would certainly not preclude dealing with the other problems,should they ever atempt to fix any of THEM.

My opinion? That is a pretty weak argument against buying some software and installing it. That's all that needs to be done, and that doesn't sound very time-consuming to me.

Ed Fernandez 03-06-2011 03:01 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 244217)
Have you ever noticed how, when Ed F. cannot answer the question at hand, his reaction is to change the subject and distract the reader by attacking the poster of the thread, bringing up issues that have no bearing on the subject matter?

That's his M.O., and it never changes; he thinks if he can discredit thw credibility of the person who asked the question, maybe nobody will notice that he had NO ANSWER for the question that was asked.

That's the equivalent of what they used to call "yellow journalism," but it's his only line of defense for having no answer for the question.

I'm probably not tellling you anything you didn't already know... just thought it was worth mentioning.
Bill you're a lone bouy bobbing in the vast ocean.Put a fork in it .it's done.

bill dedman 03-06-2011 03:04 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes (Post 244188)
Bill, i gave you one, and you even agreed with it. Or is that too far back for you to remember
Chad, can you refresh my memory, please? I really don't recall what it was that I agreed to...

Thanks,

bill dedman 03-06-2011 03:29 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
[QUOTE=johnny shot;244210] "You want opinion or logic? Reason or fact? You keep changing your demands."


I already got your opinion, but it wan't based on logic, so, I thought you might want to re-think some of that. For instance:


"I don't think it's broken."



Then you think it's perfectly OK that when a AA/S car races a B/S car, the B/S car has a chance to red light, but if he does, the AA/S car will never get HIS chance to red light, which could be a worse infraction, and give the race to the B/S car? What is fair about that? Please tell me. Don't just say "Those are the rules," because it doesn't have to be that way; we can change that inequity.

"Fact? It's a current rule that we must abide by."


Keyword here is "current." Doesn't have to be that way.



"Logic? Once the first car red lights the race is over."


That's not logic; that's just the status quo. The status quo could change any day, if NHRA desides to change the rule. Where's the "logic", then?


"Opinion? It is the same for both cars. Some times you are first to leave, giving you the chance to eliminate your self. Some times you are second to leave, giving you the chance to win be your opponents red light."



It's the same for both cars? Tell me when the AA/S car will be the first to leave...
Never. Unless it's a slug and chooses a dial-in slower than his opponent, which COULD happen, but is highly unlikely. And, there are a LOT of top class cars out there, now...


"You asked for an opinion of a reason, don't know what that means."


Here's what that means: I'm sure you have an opinion about the reason(s) you think this anomaly is "not broken." You think that it's fine to have a rule that is giving the advantage of not having red light jeopardy if the slower car fouls, because..... (insert reason, here.)
I just wanted to hear how, in your mind, that kind of inequity can be justified.or condoned. That's all,



"These are the facts/reasons/opinions/logic AS I SEE IT. There is zero chance you will change my mind. You keep asking for a reason, indicating that if one is given you may change yours. I don't care one way or the other what you want, nor am I interested in changing your mind. You asked, I answered. I speak for myself, and don't care who is on the band wagon with me."

OK Fair enough.

QUOTE]

Mike Carr 03-06-2011 03:31 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dedman (Post 244219)
I didn't bring this subject up; somebody else did.

You raise some very good points about :what needs to be fixed in "NHRA Sportsman racing" and I agree with all of them, but regardless of the hierarchy of the problems at hand, I don't agree that you can't work on THIS problem as long as the others still exist. Can NHRA only do one thing at a time?

This is an "easy fix" compared with a lot of that other stuff, and what small amount of time/money that is involved in resolving it would certainly not preclude dealing with the other problems,should they ever atempt to fix any of THEM.

My opinion? That is a pretty weak argument against buying some software and installing it. That's all that needs to be done, and that doesn't sound very time-consuming to me.
My point wasn't the time or ease of fixing the software/redlight program. My point was fix the BIG issues first, THEN work on the smaller issues.

bill dedman 03-06-2011 03:35 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez (Post 244220)
Bill you're a lone bouy bobbing in the vast ocean.Put a fork in it .it's done.
See; still no answer.... just another "KILL THE MESSENGER" post.

LOL! You are SO predictable...

From your "poll" it looks like I have a lot of company.... 70 people on this little board?

bill dedman 03-06-2011 03:39 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Carr (Post 244226)
My point wasn't the time or ease of fixing the software/redlight program. My point was fix the BIG issues first, THEN work on the smaller issues.
Well, Mike, this problem has been around for 48 years; have any of the others been screwing people for that long?

Mike Carr 03-06-2011 03:42 PM
Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 
As long? No. But the current issues are a MUCH bigger problem than a redlight rule that *might* come into play about 5-7% of the runs in a season.


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