Bruce, I like your ideas. We seeem to think alot alike on this issue. I have been racing Super Stock since 1980 and have seen a lot of changes, Some good and some that have just cost us a lot of money. The electonics are not going away. You can fight them or join them. There will always be opposition from the backward thinkers. Our classes will never return to the way they were back in the 1980's. You will never see NHRA take away the trans brake and make us foot brake. As for stock the two steps are probably also here to stay. Us also rans will probably benefit from the use of a delay device. As for the screen names it is nice to know who is posting thier ideas.

Mike

Okay, take SS Engine Guys Kelvin temp light sensor to react to the first light, and then the driver releases HIS button on the normal bottom yellow. It looks as though he's actually driving the car, BUT.....?

I think many people are overlooking the fact that RACERS are being cheated out of money in MANY classes because these types of devices ARE and HAVE BEEN available for years.

Not that many years ago, a World Champ COMP racer was caught with a light sensor in his full face shield; same technology as the high-zoot helicopter pilots had for gun sights in their shields.

Think what you want!

Jerry

Jerry, okay you believe its out there, then who is doing it. We all know who wins most of the time in stock and super stock. Name names, it can't be that hard.

Someone is steeling your money and you will not confront them. If someone came into your pit area and started driving your car away, you would do something about it, would you not.

Are you going to tell us there is cheating out and you suspect no one?



Ed Brice

We certainly don't want Stock to go away. We want stock to remain a certain way and keep it from mutating any more than it has already! We don't need another electronics class that allows more driver functions to be pre-programmed/modified and which opens the door to easier incorporation of illegal "accessories".

While the cars haven't remained "stock", it would be good for the sport to keep driver functions & reflexes "stock" from start to finish. I believe that diversity is important. If someone wants to race with buttons and other electronics, there are plenty of other classes, from local to national, that are available.

Keep Stock unique. Otherwise there may be more excuses to combine more classes, like Stock and SS!
Then Stock would "go away", wouldn't it!

Locomotion Racing
http://www.geocities.com/locomotionracing

,

Myron - I bet your sentiments echo 98% of all Stock racers feelings - but you miss the point. Times have changed and NHRA can't/won't/who knows for sure why/ don't seem able to stand firm. So they're making us an offer.

Believe me, I feel if I practiced every weekend I would happily throw my money up and race anyone. I totally feel I could go out and nail .520, .530 lights all day once I could practice my *** off. Will I ever get to? That's my problem. But knowing this "other stuff" is evidently out of control, what REAL choices do we have.

Evidently no one has the nuts to protest suspects at the track. So naming people online amounts to so much hot air. And after this much yippin' any smart cheater is going to rip the stuff outa the car for a while anyhow.
Random spot checks by NHRA over the next two years might scare a few.

I don't know.

What if. ok, this is a random thought...

What if the starter had the option to change the light from a 5 tenths three amber to a 5 tenths pro tree right after pre-stage - with a notice to the driver - and if you saw the driver flinchin' around or moving his hand......well....wtf.

I miss the "nearer" level playing field I thought was in place.

Ed Brice writes:
>> Sorry folks, I sound like Mr. Beard.....way to long of a post.

Yeah, but it was good post, Ed. :-)

Ed O'Brien writes:
>> Do you think there may be people with ported heads out there ?

Yup. Most of the class cars on the planet delve into the so-called 'grey' area of the rulebook. There seems to be a general acceptance of 'what you can get away with', so people only seem to care if someone really goes overboard... It is what it is, I guess. Whether some like to hear it or not, I'm there primarily to bracket race. If I have a heads-up run, I take my lumps (or get lucky), and move on.

>> It is my opinion that DAN FLETCHER has use some sort of device to slow his car down and not the foot feed ! I've seen this several times and he has the only 69 camaro that has no front end movement when when your on and off the gas !

Neat! What kind of device controls the throttle *and* controls suspension travel? What's the purpose of controlling front suspension travel at 1000'? Huh.

I've interviewed Fletch a number of times, and he's mentioned things that I don't put in the articles, but let's put it this way: Fletch is on a different planet when it comes to driving ability, and most importantly: *strategy*. H*ll, I've been racing since 1990, and won a lot of races and championships since then, and I've learned a great deal of strategy just in the last year or two that's helped me significantly. Fletcher is 10 years ahead of his time. Many people may never figure out what he's known for years. Just my opinion.

Oh, BTW, IHRA inspected everyone's cars (including Fletcher's) at Toronto the other year, in one of their random inspections. (One of the things that y'all are wishing NHRA did, has been done for years in IHRA) IHRA has caught things as small as a car that was accidentally hitting the chip through the traps, cars with loose ballast, drivers without proper safety equipment, etc...

Brice is right: You know who to check closely: those that win a lot. If they're not winning, they're obviously not doing a very good job of cheating!

Ed Brice writes:
>> As far as it being an advantage for fast cars, its not an advantage if you have access to the same combo. No one is telling you that have to build a slow car. Fast cars can spin the tires more easily than the slow cars, should we give the fast car a bigger tire. You can build what you like, if you can't afford it, well that's to bad, racing is not cheap.

With the tire technology we have today, I don't think the 'fast car can spin' argument holds much water anymore. Yeah, nobody held a gun to your held and told you to spend money, but realistically, it's getting to the point where it is nearly a requirement to spend in order to be competitive, even if it is bracket racing at its root. When I'm chasing, I feel bad if I can't drive the stripe down to .015 or better. When I'm being chased, I can double-oh my opponent *sometimes*, but many more times, it gets to be an ugly hogging of the stripe... I've been taking a lot of .040-.050 stripes this year when getting chased. That's another .03 I have to make up on the tree! There have been numerous rounds I've lost primarily because my opponent simply had a faster car than me. Why do you think Fletcher's building a faster combination for Super Stock? Just wait til he gets that thing on the track... his win percentage is going to go up even higher.

Again, that's my only real argument against things that make the faster combinations more attractive. In the big scheme of things, it's going to drive the cost up.

Mike Pearson writes:
>> As for stock the two steps are probably also here to stay.

...Except that 2-steps on automatic transmission cars could be eliminated from Stock without any of the repercusions involved with transbrakes in Super Stock. They are a starting line tool, just like deep staging was for slow cars. They didn't have any problem doing away with deep staging, even though it had a greater effect on many combinations' starting line technique than 2-steps will ever have.

Jerry Ryan writes:
>> light sensor to react to the first light, and then the driver releases HIS button on the normal bottom yellow. It looks as though he's actually driving the car, BUT.....?

The way S/SS racers watch each other, even that wouldn't last long before it got caught. You even gave such an example of someone getting caught.

Griffith writes:
>> Im thinking that a car with a 2.70 60ft and with the .400 button,,,it would be interesting

I bracket raced my mom's '85 Chrysler 5th Ave once. 318 smog motor with airplane gears. Blocked *just* the TOP bulb, and left off the flash of the 2nd, shallow staged. Was .027 on the first try. It's best 60' was a 3.09, and ran 13.20's in the EIGHTH! I don't think you could do it. Besides, top bulb racing is mostly a moot point when you can block the tree and adjust from there.

Sorry so long. I get it from my mom. ;-) (Billy probably just fell out of his chair laughing... he's MET her!)


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

So what do we do.

I miss the "nearer" level playing field I thought was in place.

There's no easy solution.

IF you protest somebody, would a sanctioning body have the time, resources & knowledge to check for all possibilities? Would they have to impound the car and strip it down, like they appear to do in Nascar? Would they even want to? Would you know what to look for and where? Would you trust the inspectors 100% when your money as well as reputation is at stake? Somehow I doubt it!

The point I'm trying to make is that the more electronics you allow, the easier it is to cheat, even IF very few people actually do. It also adds to the expense to get involved and to stay involved, especially when new gizmos are introduced on a regular basis. We already have to do that mechanically trying to make our cars faster and more consistent.

Should class racing be allowed to evolve into an exclusive club that only allows people with the most resources to be competitive? A long time ago, some people were able to be competitive in the Pro classes mainly because of driving skills, innovation, etc. Not anymore.

Besides, how often has NHRA taken a step forward for class racers, then taken 2 steps back? It just seems that the more the sportsman classes have in common, the better chance they have of being integrated into fewer numbers. There is also a history of "If it's too difficult to police, change the rules to make it easy!" But I still think more electronics being allowed makes things more difficult to tech. If they can't thouroughly tech electronics now, because of time, resources, or whatever, how can they with more "stuff"?

Obviously, taking away buttons, 2-steps, trans brakes, delay boxes, etc. from certain classes will take business away from manufacturers, which sanctioning bodies need. But unless somebody makes some concessions/compromises, class racing as we know it will eventually "go away"!

I don't have an easy solution, but I would like to see some diversity remain in sportsman racing. Sometimes I wish I was born 10 years earlier!


Locomotion Racing
http://www.geocities.com/locomotionracing

Ed Brice, You said you couldn't believe how "Stupid" some racers were, and that included me in that post. I'm here to tell you that you are a "F!#!$ing Moron" you don't know "****" I can tell how fast my Daughter is traveling from her Frigging Cell Phone, Verizon Wireless offers this technology on to entice Parents to sign with them. Also nobody needs to tell you "Who" they think is cheating, Just that it's happening and "Some" of us "Stupid" people know it is possible. I have several friends that work for Northrup Guidance that it's a "Easy Deal" to make happen. Jerry is right about the Light Temp reader it does exist and if you are creative you could hook it to a delay box and have it "Make the Car Leave" but that is only the first half of the problem.