CLASS RACER FORUM - 2015 Rules

CLASS RACER FORUM (https://classracer.com/classforum/index.php)

- Stock and Super Stock (https://classracer.com/classforum/forumdisplay.php?f=3)

- - 2015 Rules (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=55489)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Friendly Racer (Post 451535)

Mr. (or Mrs.) FS FAN,

Be careful what we wish for? You are right. I should continue to show up at the track and get my doors blown off week in and week out by a new car. Yep, good idea. Let the new cars win and guys with an old car, go be a duck a smile. Hey, 1 out of a 100 times an old car will win, look at this one race at indy!

Thank you NHRA! I really don't care if I can no longer qualify at Indy, at least I can race again.

Please share with us the time or times your doors were blown off by a new car that you were the fastest older car and you could not have moved to a different class to avoid a new car. I am asking for a specific race.

If you weren't the fastest older car then what does it matter who beat you?

If you could have moved to avoid a new car why didn't you?

And lastly is there no old car that has a softer rating than you? You've been the fastest car forever in your class? Never has a car gotten factored away from your class?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS Fan (Post 451552)

Dude you are in the wrong place for your no-name, chicken hearted BS. I have had to deal with this crapolla for six years and now it looks like the new cars are where they belong. These new classes simply confirm what many of us said years ago. That is, they had no business in regular Stock and Super Stock Classes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 451554)

Bruce,
You are right. When you state your position so eloquently how could I not be swayed.

I'm looking forward to seeing you rack up class win after win, and dominate the many heads up runs you have in the eliminator. Cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS Fan (Post 451559)

Won class twice this year and have the fastest pass of the year so far by a real A/SA Stocker. And you're full of poop. How's that for eloquence?

My numbers for the FS Shootout Indexes were lower than NHRA used last year. My numbers for this year are 9.60, 10.0 and for another idea I proposed is FS/N for Nostalgia. 8.25 lbs 11.10 index no ahfs and no runnoff between the classes. FS/N for 72 +/- and older. And Larry, your analization of LV shootout numbers; you know as well as I, there can be no more fickle track that LV. You can't judge that track by anything. And another thing for the Shootouts, only 10 cars can transfer to the A Main (stock eliminator) if all 10 qualify, which at those numbers might be questionable. We can fuss about that all day. We are still fussing about Adam and Eve. I really don't understand the SS Changes. We are moving forward with two new cars for next year in Stock. And Ed, I can run 8.90 with my 360, but I don't, and specs are important, but performance dictates the things we are talking about. And as far as thrashing, I been thrashing on Mopars since 1968. However I am a slow learner. Maybe that's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS Fan (Post 451559)

I've been a victim of a heads-up race with a newer car that was basically a "drive-by" shooting. I'll tell you, it's no fun and how can someone boast that they won a race when they have a totally bogus HP rating. I actually like the Drag-Paks, CJ's and COPOS, but they don't belong in Stock Eliminator. They belong in SS. I'm just glad that at least, they're in their own classes now. Hey, I even use my real name 'cause I've got a "sack".

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS Fan (Post 451523)

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

It's 12 new classes, but they're removing AAA, AA, BB auto and stick, so it's only 6 more than before.

Quote:

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

Definitely more than 20 with how many more COPOs have been coming out. There were a bunch at the Indy Fall Classic I'd never seen before. There were quite a few people who jumped into CC (well AA back then, and back to AA now) when it was created, but they jumped back down when the supercharged Mustangs were running it, and quite a few new fast combinations have been through there. I'd expect a lot more old cars in AA now.

Quote:

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

I don't see how this changes new cars options. There are still all of the same engine combinations for them to run, and if someone wants to build one just to pick on the old cars, I personally don't care if they don't show up. If a guy wants to build a new car to showcase the new technology coming out of the parts catalogs, he still can.

As far as A, B, E, and G stick at Indy. I watched the A car blow the tires off in 1st gear and still run 9.60s at the Fall Classic, and he went 1.14 under at Indy. Indy was the very first race for the B car, and it went .11 faster on its best run than the old car and was down 10 mph. I don't really think you can consider the E/S final a race. There were 3 old cars in G/S this year.

Quote:

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

In order for the AHFS to work, somebody has to actually run one out. If you think the AHFS does work, look at the 5.7 Hemi stick rating and the class final in E/S at Indy.

Quote:

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

So the majority of contingency money is from aftermarket parts suppliers who do not know or care what type of car you're using their part on. The OEMs have stepped up lately and added some good contingency money in for the new cars, but I have no problem with that when they spend so much money on those cars. I don't see a situation other than that where contingency could be posted only for new cars.

Quote:

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

This is absolutely, without question, a win for the class. You will see quite a few old cars come back out when they do not have to worry about losing heads up to a new, under factored, car.

I do not have to run new cars heads up, in class or eliminations. I have raced against new cars, and I've won and lost. However, going to Indy to get my *** kicked by a 352 Mustang or 5.9 Challenger does not sound enticing to me. I will be at Indy this year. Yes, it does not address the low horsepower ratings, but we also do not have the indexes yet, so we will have to wait and see.

This is a major step in the right direction, and you will see more cars at the racetrack because of it.

Jeff, I only have about six years experience on you.

Specs mean everything. If you admit you can run 8.90s, that only illustrates how bogus your 360"' engine's hp rating actually is.

When I talk about a car that has been thrashed, you know I'm talking about a car, not a brand of cars. The LT1 combo you talk about has been thrashed longer than the Drag Paks have been in production. You know that.

How is this new deal going to hurt you personally? Or your racing? You just may not be the fast guy in class any longer? Might have to go to work to try to be faster than the other DPs, CJs or COPOs in your class? Same as the rest of us always have?

At least you use your real name. :-)

someone may get slapped at the back door

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 451560)

Won class twice this year and have the fastest pass of the year so far by a real A/SA Stocker. And you're full of poop. How's that for eloquence?

That's eloquent in my book; give 'em hell Bruce!