Re: Factory experimental
 

Terry ,see ya at the Creek april 17-18-19th......Kenny,...your head was not pretty.Saw it at Jim's.

Re: Factory experimental
 

I thought the big 3 (GM, Ford, Mopar) had no money?? :cool:

Re: Factory experimental
 

Rather than trying to keep these new late model cars out of stock, perhaps we should be talking about creating a new class for our 30 to 40 year old cars called Nostalgia Stock.

I've been reading posts on here for the last couple of years with people wanting class racing to be what it was back in the 60's, more factory involvement, higher payouts, more fan appeal etc... I think these new cars work in our benefit over the long haul.
Let's face it, there's no benefit to GM if a 69 Camaro outruns a 68 Mustang or Barracuda like there was back then. But if this new 09 Mustang blows the doors off an 09 Challenger or one of the new Camaro's, then there might be some value to the manufacturers and some additional fan appeal etc..

I happen to love these old cars that we race, but unless you grew up around this sport, alot of people don't recognize these cars anymore.

And NO, I do not race a AA car.

Re: Factory experimental
 

If these Mustangs and any future Mopar/GM hi horse power cars come along there is a place for them already,SUPER STOCK,along with 68 Hemi cars,SS AMXs,T'Bolts etc.Where is the problem with that?
I guess the guys who will have the $$ for these cars will have to live with the fact that they will not be the
fastest combos in the eliminator.
I dont think we need any new classes in Stock.
Ed F.
Lowly T/SA

Re: Factory experimental
 

If they run any kind of big numbers they are going to get hit with horse power,therefore they end up in Super Stock.There is no higher class in stock !

Re: Factory experimental
 

(pant,pant) Holy Cow! I can't read fast enough to keep up with this thread! Ya' better get ready Alex, the 400th post will be here soon.

Now, I'm no Ford guy, but the anticipation of 'seeing' these Mustangs run is making me salivate. I just hope that we will get to see the true potential, rather than what they'll do clicked at 1000'. I'm sure Ford will make public the incrementals. Not! Ford's involvement in drag racing is good for the sport, and stock eliminator in particular. Same for Mopar. I just wish Ford wouldn't give another nickel to that buffoon with the giant ego. You know, the guy NHRA can't seem to get enough of on ESPN.

Having said that, I'm afraid Bruce's concerns are not unfounded. One poster didn't think that 2.42 Hp/cu.in was attainable with this new CJ. I recall reading of F1 engines producing 6 Hp/ inch, or more. If Ford did their homework and the blower is efficient, I don't see why they couldn't extract two or more Hp/cu.in. Of course, none of this matters much except in heads-up runs. Are they running 'class' at Pomona?

As mentioned previously, I'm not a Ford guy. But I could be. If Red LeBlanc would turn over the keys to his '69, I'll bleed blue.

One last thing. IMHO, Ford won the all-time 'coolest car name' title back in '68 with the debut of the original Cobra Jet. Second place goes to 'Ramcharger'.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Taylor, I agree completely. The NHRA has no intentions of eliminating the 40 year old stuff but it is called Stock Eliminator and all the new car brands should and will be represented.
The NHRA does have a horse power factoring system which has been implemented many times in the past. If and when the Cobra Jet runs quick enough, the adjustment will be made but it needs to happen first.
It’s hard to believe there are NHRA racers that would like to factor another fellow participant before they ever make a single run. Bruce, are you saying the NHRA hasn’t classified the Cobra Jet in a fair and honest manner. I’m not sure where your info came from but I trust the NHRA has as much info as the rest of us. I’m sure they will do the right thing as soon as the CJ earns its punishment.
Ed, why should new high horse power cars run only in super stock? If the factory is building them for stock and they are, what’s wrong with that? After 40 years I would hope the auto industry can give us stuff that can out run the antiques. Yes, no new classes in stock! It would be great to see an F/X class in Super Stock for new Mustang, Camaro and Challenger to race against each other. Maybe someday when the industry rebounds this might happen.
For now I think Fords efforts are great for the entire sport and the NHRA. Hopefully the Hemi Challenger will begin to appear at the races and again give some people something to complain about. Face it, in order for Stock to be just that, Stock, new body and engine styles need to be competing at the races. History needs to be afforded the opportunity to repeat itself like in the 60’s and 70’s. New cars not 40 year old cars made Stock Eliminator what it is. I know we are all getting older but ask your self, how many 1920’s cars were in the parking lot when you went to high school?

Re: Factory experimental
 

The ahfs is a joke. It would take years to catch up to the CJs. Citing the ahfs as an excuse to allow in a grossly under factored car isn't going to work. I don't think anybody knows what nhra is going to do from one minute to the next. Ask Hoosier and MT. The problem isn't that nhra will run the older cars off. The cars they are trying to put into Stock will do that for them. After market cars and grossly under rated cars don't belong in regular Stock classes.

Re: Factory experimental
 

I heard one just made a 8.50 170mph pass!!






Well everybody else is throwing bull**** numbers and causing controversy just for the sake of keeping the panic alive I thought I'd add to it.


If you look at the posts, there are certainly more saying "let them run and then sort them out" than there are screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling". And what happens when after 3 passes the u-joints blow because they're too small or some other type crap? What if they can't get them hooked up? We can "what if" all day both ways. "What if, they run really good" or "what if they run really bad". How about "let them run and lets see" like was posted about a thousand posts ago! We WILL find out shortly!

Has anybody else heard of these 800hp numbers, first hand? I'm just curious because I did some searching and can't find that number anywhere.

Re: Factory experimental
 

I admire the guys that worked hard on the LT1's and the LS1's, they did there homework, put in the time, money and effort to run fast, I appaud you guys, I am not picking on you guys, just using your combo as an example. Correct me if I am wrong, but when the LT1 came out (listed as different weight breaks depending on what model you claimed) it could run H/SA, which is a 12.45 index. When the LS1's came out they could run G/SA which is a 12.30 index. Both of those cars can now run AA, A, B, (LT1 - C or D). These cars can now run anywhere from 9.70's to 10.20's. So here is one combo that moved up as much as 8 classes and another one that moved up as much as 7 classes. I believe the LT1 took 10 yrs. to get to where it is rated today and the LS1 around 6 or 7 yrs. to get to where it is rated today ... TALK ABOUT BEING UNDERRATED give me a break .. Although they were put in their own classes the amount of time to get to their current HP rating still took a long time. Those cars had lots of potential when they first came out and the people that built them knew it. They were fuel injected and fairly new to the class of stock. It is no different with the Cobra's today. They are new to the class, have lots of potential and will get to the correct rating sooner or later. They can protect their combo or they can kill it. I am sure that someone could buy one of these new Cobra's, turn up the wick and kill the combo right away. No one has control over that. Bruce, I have heard the numbers on your combo, I think it is underrated ...

Re: Factory experimental
 

Bruce I did not realise that you had a dog in the fight. It sure is funny how a "Paper Car" in your class changes your point of view. How would you like to try to compete with 39 year old cast iron heads. Enjoy ! See you at the races, you can beat my old stuff!

Re: Factory experimental
 

I heard that too, but I heard it was studded hoosiers, and they clicked it at 1000 ft.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmdXY...eature=related
Bob Tasca 10.81, John force 10.84 Both around 128mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic2i2...eature=related
And here's one running a 14.92!

The pair missed gears and spun....and so did the loner running a 14.92...hp ain't everything. I guess getting 1000hp on pump gas and exh manifolds to hook is pretty hard though.

Re: Factory experimental
 

No, some people are here out of genuine concern. Those guys are just having a decent, civil conversation. What you are doing, or why, I have no idea.

Experience will give you a good idea how much HP can be had. Anyone who's been doing engines for a few years can give a pretty decent estimate, at least fairly accurate.

You can put 1350 series (1 ton truck) u-joints on a chrome moly drive shaft with billet yokes in the new car, just like you can any other stocker. I don't see them blowing u-joints or driveshafts out on the track. Or rear ends. Or transmissions.

They put John Calvert in one, his stuff helps hook a lot of stockers (including our two), I'm sure John can figure it out pretty well. I just don't see John not solving traction issues. At least not for long.

I want the factory cars to race, all of them GM, Ford, and Chrysler. It's good for the sport. The flip side is I do have a serious concern as to them being correctly and accurately factored. I know exactly where Bruce is coming from, and why he started this thread. And that is saying a lot, since Bruce and I don't agree a lot. We've got over 3 years invested in an A and AA car. So when a guy says he's concerned because he may have to race one of the new cars for class, he may have to face it heads up during final eliminations, or he may have to qualify against it, I can understand his concern. The AHFS is notorious for it's deficiencies, and how it can be "gamed". As to trusting NHRA to "do the right thing", well, exactly how often has that happened recently?

Re: Factory experimental
 

Well it must have happened recently, the LT-1 was factory rated at 275 in stock, what is it now?

Re: Factory experimental
 

The LT-1, even if you figure they allowed it to be run in 1998 cars ( I wasn't there, never raced one, no dog in that fight), is ten model years old, at the newest. So, how long has it taken? It can take years for the AHFS to correct a combination, if it corrects it at all. That is why people are concerned.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Alan,
We agree on this one. There are a few guys who always come in on these long threads just to mix things up. But, not one of the nay sayers has yet to offer a reasonable objection for putting these cars in a Factory Experimental class. No one has denied that this car is soft. The Ford guy claims 800 Horsepower. Was the Ford guy lying? I asked Evan if he had ever heard a Ford guy say the same thing, but no word from him. The guys can play with the numbers, here on the site, all they want but they have nothing to offer this discussion. Finally, there is no response from the Ford guys on the CJ's technical issues that are being hammered out in Glendora.

Larry,
My old Corvette won't have anything for your car. But I'm going to run it any way. At least until I get the small block finished.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Mike;
If the cars fit into the hp/wt guidelines without carrying overly excessive weight I think that's fine.But if the new Mustang is grossly underrated it should be a SSer as any others would.I'm not clear on it but what engine would the new Camaro be legal with?What hp/wt ratio?I'm sure the Mustang would fit into SS/a or B no need for a new class.
Someone out there enlighten me if I'm wrong.


Ed F.
Lowly T/SA

Re: Factory experimental
 

Maybe the Ford guy saw your "Chevy Power" T-shirt and the Bowtie tattoo and told you 800hp to shoo you away. There is no way it makes that 800hp in legal Stock trim.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Junebug,
I was wearing a suit during the SEMA Show.

This thread has been running for a week now and I've stuck with my responsibility of responding as best I can. After a period of time, it becomes easy for some clown to blow stuff bye me but I do know what I was wearing. Thank you for your very enlightened response.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Has anyone heard about the new Ford 6.2 L (N/A) big block being tested in these cars? That would probably be the "right" combination for the next batch of Mustang Stockers don't you think?

Re: Factory experimental
 

Maybe the 6.2 will come in the '10 Cobra Jets?

Bruce.. a suit... how spiffy, but i still think they told you 800 to get rid of you.

Cool, i'm #351 a Ford number!

Re: Factory experimental
 

Gump,
No we haven't, please tell us all about it.

Junebug,
They had no reason to do that, now did they?

Re: Factory experimental
 

Explain how you jiggle weight to run SS/A and AA/SA....................................

ED F.
Lowly T/SA

Re: Factory experimental
 

The 281 cui 9.50 comp 3 valve engine will fit SS/A-B-C at 510hp (6.50 factor) Roush P-51
The 330 cui 9.38 comp 4 valve engine will fit SS/C-D-E and AA and A/S at 425 (7.62 factor) i wonder wich one would be better in SS/C?? the 425 rating seem needed to fit the C.J in Stock!
Theres also a 281 10.1 comp 3 valve with smaller throttlebodys than those above rated at 430 (7.71 factor) Roush Stg 3 ..the convertible of this config is at 8.01 and can run B/S but that seems to be the only one!

Re: Factory experimental
 

Which combo are they going to run at Pomona?

Re: Factory experimental
 

The 3 valve isn't the Cobra Jet motor, that must be for the Roush car.

"Junebug"?

Bruce it isn't hard to imagine why people might tell you lies to make you go away.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Something built around a Mustang!

Re: Factory experimental
 

Tom,
You're a cute little poster but you have to return to topic now. Nobody asked for dress codes or any of the other nonsense that you have belched out in the last three posts. Stick to your Ford information.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Can I get a simple ****ing answer to a simple ****ing question??????????????????????????????????

Re: Factory experimental
 

Ed, there are four '08 CJ's. Two are sticks and two are autos. All are rated at 425hp.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Thanks Ken.Some of the swollen heads on here cant look past their rage to give a simple answer to a question.I guess on the rated HP it needs to be run as an AA car.I'm kind of sceptical on the rating based on reported times in shake down runs(the eye witness runs not the speculated ones).Let's see what Pomona brings.
Almost forgot.I'm waiting for Jack to relate to me the bogus hp ratings from the AMC cars way back.

Ed

Re: Factory experimental
 

I thought you followed this thread...sure looks like it..Sorry!

Re: Factory experimental
 

Ed,
I think the following racers have the Hajek 08 CJs - Waldo, Stinnet, Ronzello, Calvert, and I think Pond has one of his own. There are several more coming out soon. A handful of them will never race, but most will. And the 2010 CJs will be out soon. I hear the stick guys have their hands full with these cars but the automatics seem to be doing very well.

Re: Factory experimental
 

I think the people who are upset about the new cobra jet believe it is not factored properly. Look at the blueprint specification section for the 2008 Fords and see how it compares to the Rousch 510hp,
then make your own decisions.

Greg.

Re: Factory experimental
 

For years The pontiac combinations have been at a disadvantge (and still are ) with the high HP factor NHRA had on them and all the chevy guys who have always had the advantage with their low HP factor always told the pontiac racers to work harder on their stuff , so now to all the chevy racers who are whinning about the new fords i say to you work harder on your stuff.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Thanks for the advice Don.

Greg,
I see what you mean. http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/engin...ts/ford-08.rtf

Re: Factory experimental
 

Bruce and Greg -- OK - you talked me into it -- I went and looked at the CobraJet engine specs -- yes , they are terrific and very generous . My first number as a guess might not have been 425 HP but then I'm no Ford guru either -- on the other side -- 800 HP isn't the number I would have guessed .Let them duke it out for the next few races -- surely one of them will stumble and let the cat out of the bag if they are as good as you say .One thing is for sure -- they are here to stay and more new factory combos are coming -- learn to deal with it .I can't remember anyone ever getting HP put on a combination by posting on this forum - after Pomona start with the proper channels using real facts and figures is my advise .Try not to take the "bull in a china shop approach" -- they don't seen to respond to that very well .

Re: Factory experimental
 

As I said in an earlier post , guys should be complaining about the AHFS that doesn't work. If Ford has a chance to showcase these cars,how long before GM tries to come up with something too! When was the last time you saw something about Stock Eliminator on the front page of NHRA's website? Maybe for once some of the fans in the stands will be watching when Stock goes down the track instead of going to the concession stands. Maybe someday you might get to sleep in instead of having your car ready to race at 8:00 A.M. And maybe your grandkids might get to brag to their friends that my Grandpa blew off a supercharged new Camaro at the Drags. Think about it!

Re: Factory experimental
 

Something just traveled through my tired old brain. I think a similar issue popped up many years ago.
Several new Ford A/SA cars made an appearance at the Winter Nationals and wound up in Factory Experimental after going to Tech. I can't remember if the story made a big splash, but I'm pretty certain that nhra has been down this road before. This story must be in an old magazine some where.

Re: Factory experimental
 

Jack,
Let them keep their 425 Horsepower but put them in their own class. Nobody is trying to run them out of Stock. More info today on the 800 Horsepower figure.