Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That would be 31 years, Jim. For the record, I made my first run down the track in a street/strip car in '81 and began racing my race car in brackets in '85. I ran my first NHRA event in '91 and have run every single year since then, mainly in Div. 3.

You are correct, NHRA has made very poor judgement and some people are surely taking advantage of it. I believe that NHRA should at least make an honest effort to give us a fairly level playing surface, not one that is tilted 90°.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I have a radical idea. Why don't all of you who have new cars send a letter to Graham Light and ask him to make new classes for all the new cars in stock eliminator. Also write to Ford, Chrysler, and GM and try to get them to support this. I'm afraid that if something isn't done all you guys with the new cars will just be racing with each other.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

AAA,AA,& BB. 6, 6.5 & 7lbs.

Done. Merry Christmas.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Dennis, there's more than that and more coming. How about 1lb.classes from 6 down to 10. A,B,C, D, E. / FX.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

X2 That's the best fix for everybody in my opinion which doesn't mean anything but NHRA could fix this issue that easy.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Great idea Greg. The majority of the new car racers have endorsed separate classes. It's an easy task to contact nhra and the oem performance parts staff.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Do 1lb breaks make sense for 400+ HP combinations? Even Super Stock has half-pound breaks until you get to 10.00. (I'm surprised that Stock doesn't follow the same weight break structure as Super Stock... 'course the GT classes don't switch to full lb. breaks at 10.00 either...)

What kind of weight breaks make sense for high-HP combinations? ie., something where people have a safe and legitimate way to get close to the minimum weight in at least one of their legal class options?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Greg,

I don't have a problem with the F/X classes. I just don't like racers blaming racers for the problems. By the way Greg, I like the way your local high school teams get into basketball, lol.

http://www.yardbarker.com/high_schoo..._game/12422128

I hope this link works, pretty funny.

Dennis Breeden

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Be so kind as to Speak for Yourself! I don't see your 300 plus majority of new car owners voicing an opinion here. Just the same dozen or so nay sayers from the past 4 years repeating the same old tired message..

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I'll start -- I'm with you brother ..........I'm not at all interested in running a FX class - Stock is where I've been for more than 40 years .Now the bashing can begin ...............Go for it boys - I've got big shoulders .

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ash
Be so kind as to Speak for Yourself! I don't see your 300 plus majority of new car owners voicing an opinion here. Just the same dozen or so nay sayers from the past 4 years repeating the same old tired message..



so true.....

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That's Male and Manual dukeing it out. One of the oldest high school rivalries in the country. Dennis the problem I have is racers thumping their chest like they've done something when they have a combination that's 75 or 100 horsepower soft. Try a 396-375, or a 6 pack motor or an original cobra jet, or a motor like mine or Mark's. I've been running mine for 20 plus years and was running 11.40's when I started with it. I realize your combination has been hit to the point where it is probably close, but a lot of the others are'nt even close.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Do 1/2 lb breaks then and make ten classes. I don't care, they just don't belong in the same classes with cars that were made for street use and sold to the public.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

If only it was that simple - new cars now "fit" L - what do you do with them ? Its a slippery slope ...........

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Trying to get all the new cars down to 7lbs/hp is impossible without opening up another giant can of worms for a dozen or so people to start singing the same old tired song AGAIN / STILL.

Ever hear " You can only please some of the people some of the time!! You can't please everyone all the time! !!"

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I like how the refs and the crowd lets the mascots duke it out. Good times.
I can see your point Greg, it's old technology vs new and yes a lot of advantage to the new cars no doubt. I don't have the answer that would make everyone happy that's for sure. I forget too that some of the Ford combos are still able to run below CC or even A/SA. I'm still thinking about SS/JA, can't get that out of my head for some reason.......

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

We polled this issue in the past and the majority of the racers thought the new cars should be placed in their own classes within Stock and Super Stock.

Please go to the Stock, Super Stock & Comp page to take a New Poll. It is a simple yes or no poll. It's an anonymous poll and all nhra and IHRA racers can vote. Go back to the Home Page and scroll all the way down to the racers section. Thanks.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It's not a matter of new technology, it's bogus soft HP ratings. Ray Charles, in his present condition, could look at the specs for the 360" Dodge (not one of the worst offenders) and say 275 HP? Are you kidding? Then look at what the heads flow. Really? It's a joke.

SS/JA Dennis? Come on in. There are several (big class) that can run fast enough to help you get some HP. What do you have?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Flip flopping from "The Majority of the New Car Owners" to "The Majority of Racers" does'nt cut it either!

One would have to have an inclusive list of ALL Racers, not just the fine members of this site!

Cheers eh!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Ed,

I just have a 5.7 truck motor.....

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

In what? DP?

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So the opinion of racers without new cars doesn't matter? And you think everyone not on this site thinks the new cars are rated correctly and want them in their classes? Well you might want to stop by the racetrack and talk to some people.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Yes. The stock guys don't want us, I thought you super stock guys would welcome us with open arms, lol.

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

It's not that we don't want you, it's just that we don't want you heads up!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I feel a little better now. Merry Christmas Andrew. BTW, I watched a few ND games this year, great season!

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Merry Christmas, and go Irish! It's been an awesome season, one more game!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Dennis, you should come over to the racers party in January.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Your HP factor is probably more bogus in SS than Stock. Doubt it has been hit in SS. You might out run us, but still won't get any respect.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Andrew

That is the direction you are taking, not I.

I have nothing but respect for the abilities of those like yourself that have Been There, Done that!

But when I bring facts I will surely first have comprehensive and articulate data.

BTW, I got a great reception from the friendly racers, and race fans I have met so far, and they were nothing but interested in my car, it's looks, it's performance, and the new technology it represents.

But when I get a handle on it things/opinions may change, lol.

Cheers eh!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Redman told me the same thing at the IMIS show last week, sounds like a good time. If my next surgery goes well I'll try to make it.

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Crap, I'm beginning to feel like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect. No one has hit the 5.7 in SS yet and yes it is low I agree. Stock is more than 100 hp higher than SS. I did hear that the 5.7 may get a correction in SS this month even though no one has hit it yet. I guess I better stay in stock.

Dennis

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I'm just saying that there are a lot more people out there than those who post on this forum with the exact same opinion, new cars need their own classes. I think the new cars like yours are cool, I just think it would be best for everyone if they were in their own classes within Stock Eliminator.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Flip flopping? Not me pal. The majority of new car racers who have posted on this site have at one time or another said they wanted new classes for the new cars.

I appreciate your concern about the poll. But you don't call the shots in this sport or even on this site. Let's see how the poll turns out. BTW an all inclusive list of ALL racers to vote in this poll would not be good for your cause. Of course, you know that already.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

That's the combo I have in the Volare, and I specifically built it *because* it's crazy underfactored. It's rated 50HP lower than my old 360 Magnum crate motor! :eek: I knew it was about the only way I could afford to get into Super Stock. I did my part by building it low-buck and slow. ;) We plan to do some tinker stuff this winter to pick it up a little, but I'll still be the Duck when it comes to heads-up matches.

Ironically, "the majority" was more than happy to "vote out" deep staging many years ago. (something that was a performance detriment!) Pure democracies don't work. Everyone's opinion *does* matter, but that input should then be tempered with reason and a broad perspective aimed at preserving or improving our sport. Invariably, some people will like and some people will dislike any given decision. The best you can do is to try to make decisions as rationally and fair as possible, and tell your customers *why* a given decision was made -- hopefully even some of those who disagree with a decision will respect it for that.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Bring it on leprechaun!!!! Roll tide roll!!!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Heck Dennis, it's simple. Run it out the back door a few times with all 4 barrels open. They will give you some HP. LOL
Your more straight up than most. You admit it. Most want to talk about new technology. It's simply bogus-low HP factors.

Merry Christmas!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

So what you are saying is NHRA will give me free hp? All I have to do is run 1.20 under and the extra hp is free?? That sounds like a pretty good deal. Have a good evening Ed, I'm done for the night.
I do want to wish you and all the racers a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Dennis Breeden
A/SA, CC/SA, F/X, SS/JA, B/GAS, Modified????

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Its really pretty easy. Whatever weight break your car fits in now just becomes a FX class for the '08 and up CJ's, DP's and the fashionably late COPO's. If you fit in CC/S now its just CC/FX, if its E/S now then it would be E/FX. Its really simple, don't over think it you're not trying to reinvent the wheel here. Just parallel the FX classes to their natural S/SS classes that they are in now. Heck I'll even pitch in to buy some of the new FX decals. To me when the owners of these new cars are so against being separated it just sounds like someone doesn't want to loose their .8 advantage on their current class and is scared to compete on a level playing field against equal competition. Then they would have to compete against guys who do know how to make a fast car faster like Bo, Chris, The Southland gang, The Candies gang, etc... Now the $100k they spent on a ringer to beat up on the old cars just went out the window and now they will actually have to compete and work on their cars and show what they are made of.

Peter I tend to stick with the saying "You can't piss everyone off all of the time". This seems to work better for me as feelings just seem to get in the way. I don't pride myself on being politically correct. It seems that so many people in this world have lost their spinal column. Heck I've even seen some peoples bodies reject a spinal transplant LOL for real.

Yeah I know your going to say "nothing is equal or fair" and even ask for us to show you in the rule book where it says all classes should be equal and fair. Just remember what goes around comes around. I'm still young in this sport. I've committed myself to giving this 43 year old combo a shot for sentimental reasons. But if NHRA keeps turning the blind eye just refer back to one of my original post in this thread. With all do respect to the racers that race these cars I'm not above playing the game either and forcing you to run it a little harder than you might expect. Right now it doesn't seem that there are any of these new cars in C or D/S. 99% of them are automatics so I may never get the chance, but if I do... :)

Merry Christmas!

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

I think it's more like this:
You can fool some of the people all of the time and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Or something similar.

Jack the car that you, the oem's and nhra are trying to pass off as a Stocker is just what it says in the rule book. A special production car that has been "placed" in Stock. Many of us recognize these cars for what they are, that is, factory parts counter cars. Or, as some prefer to call them, crate motor race cars.

Re: GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show
 

Ed you have a PM.