SS Viper
 

Is there any interest to read and see a few pics about our development of a SS/D Viper GTS?
The project took 8 years and we made the first test runs two weeks ago...

Re: SS Viper
 

Heck yeah!

Re: SS Viper
 

X2, I've been trying to keep up on facebook but with my frequency I miss alot. So what were the early results? 1.30under, 1.50under?

Re: SS Viper
 

The Viper was bought december 2004 from a Microsoft Excecutive :-) I shipped it directly to Lamb to take measurements so we could get a 5-lug bolt pattern for the front hubs.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7896
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7897

After several test and a lot of research they found out what could work and the Chassi was transported down to Phil Mandella...the work could begin. This was about January/February 2005. Phil and the guys dismantled the Viper and shipped all small parts to Sweden.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7898

After the Chassi was cleaned out the fabrication could start.
The Viper have a quite rigid chassi original and with the complete cage/tubbing it is rock solid.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7901
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7900
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7899

The fabrication work with the chassi took about 6 months. When ready the Viper was shipped to California Shipping to a container headed for Sweden!
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7902

Re: SS Viper
 

Very interested in your car !!! Been following on Facebook.

Re: SS Viper
 

I would like to know more, what is the Facebook page?

Thanks,
Bill

Re: SS Viper
 

Re: SS Viper
 

Please join the facebook page, recent and future updates will be posted there :-)

Re: SS Viper
 

The Viper arrived to Sweden after 3 months and early 2006 we could start our part of the build. (there is a steady stream of Cars and Parts shipped to Sweden so to get cars over hear cheap is easy :-)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7904

First time on Swedish ground, it was a fantastic feeling! I was very optimistic and the plan was to debute the car summer 2006...as we now know it took another 7 years...
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7903

I Took the Viper directly down to the garage and started to strip it. A good thing with the Viper is that most parts of the body is glued or bolted, if you have correct tools or know what your doing it's very straight forward to strip it down to frame only.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7905

Re: SS Viper
 

^^^^^What he said!!!^^^^^^

Re: SS Viper
 

Before making the chassie ready for paint we fabricated all sheet metal/cover plates etc. The body it self is in composite, but in some areas we had to use 2 mm aluminum to get realistic function and fit.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7906

When that was done and we were sure everything fitted perfect it was time to prepare the Viper chassi for paint. We stripped everything and left was a bare skeleton...weight about 350kg (800lbs)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7909

Re: SS Viper
 

In march 2005 the engine development started. The initial plan was to have the engine done in 3 months...but it took years, many years to get it were we wanted it to be in performace.

The first mission was to find a V10 block that was straight and good enough for the project...I can promise you that all V10 blocks are not. The block received Darton sleves and landed at about 502Cui
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7913

Internals to the V10, nothing exotic, just standard American Super Stock parts :-)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7916

The most challenging part of the engine build was the cylinder heads and the valvetrain. The heads alone took about 3 months of hard work to get them to flow at decent levels. To get there we had to go way offset on lifters and rockers, 3 different sets of custom made lifters/rockers were tested before we ended up with a functional set.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7912

Next step was to design a plenum/intake that would work good with the two tiny Trottle houses that comes with a Generation 2 Viper. A long plenum, no dividers, no planes, only filled with injectors and fuel runners...the injectors were mounted in the center of the runner, inside the plenum.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7914

This is how the plenum ended up looking. It works realy well above 4000rpm, but under 4000 it would have been impossible if we didnt have a fuel injected engine. To get the engine to work at low speed we had to remove 80% fuel at the rear cylinders and linear add fuel towards the front of engine (closer to trottle houses).
The guys who did the Dyno tuning in USA dind't bother to do that, so we spent two days in a chassie dyno to get the engine driveable...
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7915

Re: SS Viper
 

JP, what type of power where you able to attain with the engine and where in the rpm range is it making its peak power.

Re: SS Viper
 

Still working on it, we've done a few changes since it was in the dyno room... Major changes when we had it on chassi dyno...time slips will tell.

Re: SS Viper
 

How do I upload a video?..

Re: SS Viper
 

Put the video on YouTube then copy the imbed link and place it here.

Re: SS Viper
 

Video below from Chassie Dyno.
We spent two days to get the engine run good under 4500rpm. The fuel map from when we had the engine in dyno room was a mess, but after 18 hours and several 2000-5000 rpm pulls we had a map that was ok. Its still rough but the car can now be driven at low speed.
One other thing we experienced on the chassi dyno was that all 10 spline disc centers doesn't have the same dimension specs. The clutch discs were stuck on the Jerico Input shaft so it was a mess to separate the gearbox from the bellhousing... :-/

Re: SS Viper
 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HN9AjePyII&feature=share&list=UUQBxHHJcX3 xHHsC1AGGVmPw"]SS Dodge Viper Chassi Dynamometer day - YouTube[/ame]

This is the link to dyno video.

Re: SS Viper
 

I wonder if some of your tuning issues would go away if you regulated the pressure after the injectors? That way you would be guaranteed that all of the injectors are getting the same fuel pressure. It would also reduce heat soak related issues with the fuel in the rails. Or, am I missing something in this photo?

Love this project!!

Re: SS Viper
 

The machine shop I use has some pretty extensive experience with the Viper engine. They've sold them to road racers mainly. They came up with the fix for the crank & oiling problems that Dodge swept under the carpet (if you brought your Viper to the dealer and had an oil pressure or worse problem, they were swapping out engines to keep the customer happy...and quite). They offered to share the info with Chrysler but were rejected.
So...what I do know is that they cured the fuel problems by going to a return style system. Call Bud Yancer up @ 520-568-3511 if you think he can help. Or maybe you do have it all figured out and your good. That's in the Town of Maricopa, Arizona USA and that would be PST.

Re: SS Viper
 

The issue we have is not related to equal fuel pressure at the injectors, our "problem" is more related to fuel splatter from one cylinder to another. What would solve the problem is to move the injectors closer to the valve. But that will be another project, as it is now it works quite well as a Drag engine, the trottle response is fantastic and we need to test more before building a new intake.

Re: SS Viper
 

Thats all behind us. I've run a Viper only business for many years which gave a lot of experience regarding the Viper Engine.
Our fule system i built by the book, Weldon stuff all the way, two Monster Mesh filters from Kinsler etc...what we have that is kinda odd is that we have the Regulator and "T" the fuel supply just before the Fuel Rails instead of having the regulator after the Rails...
The idea is to keep the fuel cooler, non used fuel doesn't heat up before it is routed back to the fuel cell...
:-)

Re: SS Viper
 

Hey JP, with the new manifold, will you play with the throttle body placement to help with the air/fuel distribution from cylinder to cylinder?

Re: SS Viper
 

No, its a Super Stocker...must be in sort of "geometrical" stock position. The TBO:s are right now in a good position to take advantage of a speed related positive atmospheric pressure...The NACA duct in the hood might help build some top end power.
We will change the MAP sensor for next season so we can monitor if the NACA duct help.

Re: SS Viper
 

The work with the bare chassi continued and we sprayed it in the original semi flat black. The Viper chassi is welded and glued so ugly so there is no way to get show finish :-) But its a race car...
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7929

The stock frame i quite rigid. This car was hit bad left front so we had to change some parts of the front clips.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7931

One of two Ford numbers on the Viper (Ford 600 paint code)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7930

Assembly, Its quite handy to paint the whole body in sections and then just bolt or glue it in place :-)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7932

Mopar traditional semi flat black rear panel, I like it that way :-)
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7933

It's starting to come together, Weldon Fuel pump, Monster mesh filters, Optima Batteries, Ford 9" MW internals, Koni double adjustables etc.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7934

Re: SS Viper
 

JP:

I have been watching your project with great interest. My Gen II has an after market cam and I have the same fuel in-balance issue as you described with your manifold but with the stock manifold. I know you had to keep the TB's in the stock location but had you ever considered how a system might work with the TB's air dumping into the center of the manifold? I am thinking about cutting off the top of a stock manifold and building a cover that would accomplish that.
Thought I would check around before cutting metal. The Gen II manifold has the exact same air flow problems we had in the old days with the Hemi cross ram manifold.

Thanks

Jim
hartsnet@yahoo.com

Re: SS Viper
 

Bitchin' Car.

Re: SS Viper
 

Yes, we had that design on the drawing board, and if I don't miss mind I think there have been some vintage intake manifolds/plenums with similar designs as you have in mind. We would probably have been better of with the injectors moved closer to the valve but In our case isn't the performance and driveability in low rpms a big issue, we are more interested in 4500 and up, so only by tweaking the fuel flow solved most of our problems. But for a street type of car would our manifold be a total failure...
The issue with the stock manifold can easlilly be solved with a after market ECU...no problemo :-) Just remove som fuel for the rear injectors at low and mid rpm.
What ECU are you running now?

Re: SS Viper
 

Now this is a WILD project!

I tip-my-hat to you for your persistence.

Re: SS Viper
 

My car had fuel rails and large top loader injectors which flowed large amounts of fuel. I changed to a stock intake manifold and stock injectors. It also had a Roe Racing VEC II add on computer which was very difficult to manage so I removed it and thought I would try to manage the air flow instead. Do you know of an ECM available that would replace the stock one? Most shops that claim they can supply one are very expensive with no assurances of success.

Thanks for responding.

Jim

Re: SS Viper
 

The stock injectors flow good up to about 600hp, so with a cam swap only that sounds like over doing it.
In general the VEC was a pain in the *** Piggy Back system, it's a Swedish system and our other Super Street Viper was a test Mule for it...did never work as expected.
There is a few systems out there that proclaim they work with the Viper, but most of them have errors, bad interfaces or have intermittent problem.
If I were you I would buy the new Infinity system from AEM when its available for the Gen2 Viper.
It's a $2-3K deal but it will help you.
Just find a experienced AEM turne with a Chassi Dyno, spend a half a day there and your Viper will Rock!

Btw, did you add headers when changing Cam Shaft?

Re: SS Viper
 

The project continued and next step was to assemble suspension and brakes.
Our Viper doesn't have a regular 4-link, it wasn't room enough to make a 4-link the way Phil wanted it, so he decided to build a 3-link.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7966

With a 3-link there are a few things that need to be 100% if you want it to behave perfect on the strip, one of them is the Anti-Roll Bar. When we received the chassi we decided to build a new Anti-Roll Bar. One that is far more rigid compared to the first one we had.
First a CAD Drawing
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7969
The final product, more of a Aussi Pro Mod style.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7970

After that the focus went to the front end stuff. The stock hub/spindles (6-lug) was replaced with Dodge Dakota spindles and the Brakes came from Lamb. The Front Coil Overs are American Eagle (what I had on the shelf), They been shortened and revalved...but will probably be changed to a set of Ohlins in the future.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7967

The Master Cylinder from Lamb on the narrow footwell.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7968

After everything was in place we found out we had a severe Bump Steer problem. We tried different solutions but ended up with moving the Steering Rack and fabrication of longer steer rods, so now it's acceptable. Any way the car isn't built for huge wheel stands.
http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=7971

Re: SS Viper
 

Looks like I'm not allowed to upload more pics, so the build story stops here.
Btw, 2nd test pass we did 9.39/147...
:-)

Re: SS Viper
 

JP, congrats on making it this far with the combo, I've been trying to keep an eye on it when I can on facebook. Given the power you are currently making with the engine, what do you think your low ET will be once you get that power to the ground. Also, is the engine make better than competitive power and do you believe their is more untapped potential in the combo?

Re: SS Viper
 

thanks for posting on here, not all of us are on, or look at facebook.
amazing project. keep up the good work

Re: SS Viper
 

Hard to tell, but a 1.00 under doesn't look like a big challenge. But we want more than that out of it.
The Gen 2 heads have some week spots so we can propably not find more there, can't do more with the camshaft without being to bold for the Valve train. The intake manifold can probably be improved, we haven't even started to lean the engine yet, it's just a base tuned right now. So when other issues are sorted we can probably find some more in the tune. But besides that we probably need to work with the intake manifold to find more power. But we will leave the intake experiment for season 2016.

We will not race more this season, have already gathered enough info, no use to continue with what we now have, upgrades are needed.
New gear box gearing 1-4th gear, new rear end gearing, put in a alternator and a few more minor things. Besides that a engine ovehaul, we been running it on over time...

Its been a long project, but I must admit the result is very rewarding :-)

Re: SS Viper
 

It's a shame I can't post more pics, looks like I reached some kind of limit for my account...I guess only admin can tell.

Re: SS Viper
 

Well, I'm glad you guys were bold enough to take this project on, I've always wondered what this engine can do and your allowing us to see that. Would be cool to see it summer 2016 and if you can find a way to stiffen up the valvetrain even more without being too heavy, there will be even more HP in the combo. Fitting in more engine cycles with RPM usually means more power with engine changes to accommodate it.

Re: SS Viper
 

Btw, a nice write up in Dragzine a few weeks ago:
http://www.dragzine.com/news/swedish...l-super-stock/

Re: SS Viper
 

That makes no sense...no one posts more pictures here than I do lol. :p
Try a Photobucket account (free to a point) or another image hosting site.